HSBC claim form - credit card 'debt'***Claim Discontinued***

[Old Cogger]

might be one of the many burnt in a fire at a warehouse (mountain Ash)?? and The original paper was just a white shhet asking Name address etc etc etc? or as some of us initially stem from telephone call to customers/

[Falcokeith]

Claim acknowledged, CPR sent with no response and defence filed.

Guess I just have to wait now

[AndyOrch]

If you could post a copy of the defence you submitted Falcokeith

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Falcokeith]

My defence

 

 

CLAIM NO: ********

In the County Court Business Centre

 

 

 

CASE SUMMARY

 

1. I am the Defendant in this case.

 

2. On 01/12/2014 and 23/12/2014 I wrote to the Claimant requesting Verification of the debt

 

3. On 13/01/2015 the Claimant responded to the Defendant's letter with no mention of the Consumer Credit Agreement or any verification of the debt

 

4. On 23/01/2015 I wrote to the Claimant restating my case to see the requested documents for Verification of the debt

 

5. On 18/02/2015 the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim.

 

6. I completed online the Acknowledgement of Service on 23/02/2015

 

7. The Defendant sent out a CPR31.14 request letter on 23/02/2015, asking for the following documents to be produce in court:

a. The agreement

b. The demand/termination notice

c. The default notice

 

8. To date I have not received an acknowledgement of my CPR31.14,nor does it appear any of the requested documents have been forthcoming.

 

9. The Defendant rebuts all the above in that there is no enforceable agreement and therefore no claim should have been made

I have in my possession 2 letters dated 11/11/2013 and 16/12/2013 from HSBC confirming that there is no Consumer Credit Agreement relevant to this case therefore this legal action is both unlawful and vexatious

I respectfully request the Claimant's claim be Struck Out with prejudice due to their lack of evidence

 

Statement of Truth I believe the facts stated within this Case Summary to be true comprising of 1page.

 

Dated this 10th day March of year 2015.

 

Signed

[AndyOrch]

Excellent that's fine:wink:

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Falcokeith]

Well the claim was stayed but HSBC then wrote to me telling me they did not have to answer my CPR31.14 as would be allocated to small claims track.

 

 

I wrote back stating until it was allocated they were still liable under CPR31.14

 

 

HSBC wrote again with a re-constituted CCA (Application form with separate 1996 T&C's and current T&C's) stating they would have stay lifted and proceed with claim as in balance of probabilities they had proved debt

 

 

Stay was lifted and will be allocated to my local court

 

 

Wrote back to them with CPR18 again requesting CCA but no doubt will be ignored

 

 

Submitted N244 to court to request unless they provide CCA claim should be stayed, now waiting

 

 

Would anyone have any ideas about this?

I was always lead to believe that with no CCA a court case was not possible

[AndyOrch]

I doubt your application will be considered...the claim will proceed.The claimant is not compelled to disclose anything until the relevant part of the procedure is reached...which is standard disclosure as directed by the court after allocation.

 

Andy

[Falcokeith]

Just seems weird to me that they can tell me they have no CCA so cannot take it through court and then take it to court a few years later with a copy application form (They even got my name on that wrong)

[AndyOrch]

Thats the gamble they take...if they can convince the judge that what they have is valid and acceptable...or whether he kicks it out and requests true executed copies.

[Falcokeith]

So how can I convince the Judge that it is not valid and acceptable?

That seems to be the way forward

[AndyOrch]

Research and preparation...knowledge of the CCA1974 ...case law etc...but there is still time for them to pull out before this gets in front of a District Judge.

[Falcokeith]

This is what was sent to me as a reconstituted Credit Agreement

Does it look properly executed?

They also sent me T&C's for 1996 (date of agreement) and current ones

If anyone can find faults I can use I would appreciate it

 

Application form, covering letter and terms and conditions from date of agreement 1996

Hope that is all readable

Only other thing that came was current terms and conditions, didn't think they would be important to this but will upload them if necessary

Thankfully not as many pages as I thought as I counted for both sides

[theoldrouge]

does the recon contain your correct address at the time of application?

[dx100uk]

you indicated there were 30 pages of T&C's?

 

 

theres only 9 pages in you upload.

 

 

however, although they say you've acked the debt by those letters

it does not remove they fact they need the signed agreement.

 

 

dx

[Falcokeith]

Hi Dx,

Sorry, I did say in a previous post I had counted double pages also they had sent me 2 copies of current T&C's.

Do they need a signed agreement to enforce in court on any agreement or is it just that this one is pre-2007?

[Falcokeith]

does the recon contain your correct address at the time of application?

 

Yes correct address but wrong Christian name

[dx100uk]

Hi Dx,

Sorry, I did say in a previous post I had counted double pages also they had sent me 2 copies of current T&C's.

Do they need a signed agreement to enforce in court on any agreement or is it just that this one is pre-2007?

 

 

as this was pre apr 2007 they WILL need the signed agreement.

 

 

you might suffer a judge lottery mind on the recon.

 

 

dx

[Falcokeith]

as this was pre apr 2007 they WILL need the signed agreement.

 

 

you might suffer a judge lottery mind on the recon.

 

 

dx

 

 

I was going to rely on s127 if the judge appeared that way inclined

And thanks again for all your help

[dx100uk]

well please make sure anything you write or say goes passed andyorch first.

 

 

dx

[Falcokeith]

well please make sure anything you write or say goes passed andyorch first.

 

 

dx

 

Will do

I think next phase will be preparing Witness Statement as it has now been allocated to my local court

[Falcokeith]

I re filed my N244 as a CPR 18 failure to supply documentation and was told it would be sent with my case to local court

Local judge sent General Form of Judgement or Order

Ordering HSBC to provide within 14 days

A copy of original agreement

A copy of the default notice

Evidence of service of default notice

A statement of defendants account

 

 

This was on 18/06/2015 and time is now over

I phoned the court asking what happens now and it appears that there is no penalty for HSBC not providing any of this information!!

Silly me I thought that if a judge ordered something and it was not complied with the case would be thrown out but it appears it still has to wait until Late August for a hearing of the defendants application to strike out.

 

 

Is it worth writing to the court or do I just need to wait?

[AndyOrch]

Responding to your PM Falcokeith

 

Did the order not state any sanctions if the claimant failed to comply with that order?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Falcokeith]

Responding to your PM Falcokeith

 

Did the order not state any sanctions if the claimant failed to comply with that order?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

No sanctions at all.

I rang the court as I expected there should be but no, the Judgement was just to provide documents in 14 days

[AndyOrch]

Strange normally its an " Unless Order" and that failure to comply will result in strike out...given that it was not imposed by the court but by your application under CPR 18 so I assume it must have to run to hearing rather than sanctions being applied.

 

The upshot is they have failed to comply...so they will also fail at the hearing.

[Falcokeith]

With my N244 I attached a draft order I did include that if they failed to comply the claim should be struck out without further order

Would it not be possible to "remind" the court that was included in the N244 or do you think I should just wait?

I know HSBC have been asking the court for all copies of paperwork I have put to the court so I don't think they are just going to go away