Blackhorse loan and a Unilateral notice

[lesley6locke]

After a split with my partner in 2005

 

i received a letter through the door which turned out to be a loan agreement ,

the loan appeared to be in my name and that of my ex partner .

 

After looking into the agreement i tuned out my ex had managed to obtain a loan in both my name and his against our home .

 

It tuned out that my ex had signed my name to a loan without my consent .

It all went to court and my partner was convicted of fraud and my name was removed from the loan .

 

I recently found out that a charging order was placed on my home as a result of this court case ,

It appears on the land registry as a mortgage in both mine and my ex 's name ,

I am a little confused about the whole thing ,

 

i have tried to get information on the charging order but cannot seem to do so as the bank states they cannot discuss the debt

or the amount the charging order is for with me as the debt is in my ex partners name .

 

I have been managing to pay the mortgage myself for the last eight years and am am just a bit worried to say the least

that i have struggled to meet the payments on the mortgage so the equity it seems can go towards paying of my ex partners debts .

...seems a little unfair ...:-

 

Any help understanding charging orders would be a great help .....

 

Does any one know how i can obtain info on the judgement for the charging order

[Ganymede]

Have you seen a copy of your title deeds?

 

I assume that the Charging Order is registered as a Restriction?

 

This is only against your ex's beneficial interest in the property (I.e. His share).

 

Are you planning on selling the house anytime soon? If you are then the Charging Order can be removed when you sell reasonably easy depending on a few things.

 

You won't be able to find out details yourself as it's not your debt.

[lesley6locke]

Hi sorry I was a little unsure about the restriction . But yes it is registered as a restriction I have just got a copy of the land register and am still trying to get my head around it. Can I ask how the charging order can be removed and under what circumstances please . Again any info would be a help.

[citizenB]

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/guides/public-guide-23a

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?296599-How-can-I-remove-Iterim-Charging-Order-(Restriction)-on-my-property-when-I-m-not-the-claimant-or-defendant

 

I dont know whether there is anything in the links above that will help.

[citizenB]

Did you make an objection when it was first advised that a restriction would be placed on teh property ?

 

I think you can still object now even if you didnt at the time.

[SUNDERLAND1]

You say in your 1st post that

 

 

"MY EX HAD MANAGED TO OBTAIN A LOAN IN BOTH MY NAME AND HIS AGAINST OUR HOME" so was it a secured loan ???

 

 

After he was done for fraud and your name was removed from the loan what happened about the loan then ???

 

 

Was it in his name only then and was it converted to an unsecured loan as a secured loan on a jointly owned property

can only be obtained with the signatures of all the owners,

 

 

hence he would never have been able to get a loan secured against your property in his own name.

 

 

I take it you have a mortgage on this property in both yours and his name

 

 

but since you have split i guess your just paying all the bills but his name is still on the mortgage ???

[citizenB]

Sunderland raises a good point there..

[AndyOrch]

I think you need to back track a little here...have you ever altered the judgment (CCJ) which would be in both your names? Once that is done inform the LR to amend the Charging Order to a Restriction to your ex's beneficial interest in the property.

 

If the mortgage is still in joint names then should you sell... the restriction will be settled from his share only.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to General Legal Issues

[SUNDERLAND1]

Think also andy the OP needs to clarify whether or not the CCJ was granted before or after the discovery of the fraud

and the subsequent removal of the OP's name from the loan.

 

 

If it was after then the charging order should only have been registered at land registry as a restriction in her ex,s name only

and not as a mortgage as such with both names attached.

[lesley6locke]

Hi ...my ex partner obtained a secured loan

( he did this while we together without my knowledge) .

 

 

I only found out about it after we split as I started receiving default notices ....

 

 

I asked for a copy of the loan application

that is when I realised he had forged my signature to get it.

 

 

The charging order was registered on two separate dates so I am assuming that it must have been altered when my ex was charged with fraud.

 

 

My name was removed from the loan after my ex went to court .

 

 

I have a mortgage and yes it is in both are names.

 

 

I have been paying by myself for the last eight years .

 

 

Sorry if this is vague but the more info I get the more confusing it all is .

 

 

I have just instructed that I should be able to get a copy of the charging order as the house and mortgage is in both mine and my ex partners name.

 

Thanks for your reply though .

[lesley6locke]

I have never altered the ccj as I Cannot seem to obtain a copy (I keep trying ) .

 

 

I was not informed that my ex was to appear in court as he went awol for a few years and never made contact .

 

 

I had no information from black horse either.

 

 

They are very unhelpful and told me that the debt would be paid before any of us get any money from the sale.

 

Is there another way to get a copy of the ccj other than from the bank .

[lesley6locke]

Hi .I was never informed about the ccj.

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

Okay the Charging Order is directly governed by the CCJ..

.if the CCJ is in both name hence the Charging Order is also.

You can check online to see if your name was removed :-

 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/ there is a fee of £4/5...

.if there is no judgment registered against you..

.then that eradicates the need to invetistigate any further with regards the judgment.

 

Now you need to to inform the Land Registry of what has happened and ask them to amend the entry to his name only as a restriction

(this will then show against his shared equity)

 

Then you are correct....as he is still on the Mortgage the restriction will stand until he settles/satisfies the judgment.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[lesley6locke]

Ok ... Months of phone calls and reading , but i think maybe i am starting to get get some where ....

 

maybe a recap is in order ...

 

In 2005 I seperated from my husband ,

shortly after a received a letter through the door ,

it was a loan agreement in my name

( I had not taken out a loan ) ALARM BELLS

 

I contacted the bank ( Black Horse finance)

 

The loan was taken out in my name by my ex partner against my knowledge

 

My ex partner was taken to court and was convicted of fraud ( he was ordered to pay the loan off in weekly instalments )

 

He did not make the payment

 

he defaulted on the loan

 

Black Horse finance managed to place a charge on our once shared home

 

I have managed to get this charging order removed from the property

 

I seems Black Horse finance used the forged document to obtain the charge

( they knew this when the applied for the charging order as this was prior to the court case )

 

I mentioned this to them while on the telephone to them , one week later ,

after almost for years of trying to get my head around the situation the removed the charging order

and sent me a letter stating that they will be taking only my ex partners share of any equity in the house .... GREAT NEWS

 

Or so I thought ...

 

I have recently received a letter from the land registry stating that the charging order on my property has been removed ,

cancelled by Black Horse finance ,

but now in its place is a unilateral notice ...

 

I have sent for the documents from the land registry

both the charge and the unilateral notice

both seem to been placed using the forged document as grounds ...

 

AArrgg ...can anyone help ,

 

 

I am at my wits end at this point and ready to give up ,

 

 

what is a unilateral notice and do Black Horse finance (who have caused me nothing but grief over the last 10 years)

have the power to place this notice given the way the original loan was obtained .... yet again i am in limbo ,

 

 

All I want to do is walk away from this with what is mine

 

 

i have struggled for 10 years to pay the mortgage and really hate to give up at a the last hurdle

 

 

I want to sell the property and just move on .

 

 

..but after all the grief i would kick myself if i was to loose out on what is mine and the kids ....

Any advice would be great ...

[lesley6locke]

Ok ... Months of phone calls and reading , but i think maybe i am starting to get get some where ....

 

maybe a recap is in order ...

 

In 2005 I seperated from my husband , shortly after a received a letter through the door , it was a loan agreement in my name ( I had not taken out a loan ) ALARM BELLS

I contacted the bank ( Black Horse finance)

The loan was taken out in my name by my ex partner against my knowledge

My ex partner was taken to court and was convicted of fraud ( he was ordered to pay the loan off in weekly instalments )

He did not make the payment

he defaulted on the loan

Black Horse finance managed to place a charge on our once shared home

I have managed to get this charging order removed from the property

I seems Black Horse finance used the forged document to obtain the charge ( they knew this when the applied for the charging order as this was prior to the court case )

I mentioned this to them while on the telephone to them , one week later , after almost for years of trying to get my head around the situation the removed the charging order and sent me a letter stating that they will be taking only my ex partners share of any equity in the house .... GREAT NEWS

Or so I thought ...

I have recently received a letter from the land registry stating that the charging order on my property has been removed , cancelled by Black Horse finance , but now in its place is a unilateral notice ...

I have sent for the documents from the land registry both the charge and the unilateral notice both seem to been placed using the forged document as grounds ...

 

AArrgg ...can anyone help , I am at my wits end at this point and ready to give up , what is a unilateral notice and do Black Horse finance (who have caused me nothing but grief over the last 10 years) have the power to place this notice given the way the original loan was obtained .... yet again i am in limbo , All I want to do is walk away from this with what is mine i have struggled for 10 years to pay the mortgage and really hate to give up at a the last hurdle I want to sell the property and just move on ...but after all the grief i would kick myself if i was to loose out on what is mine and the kids ....

Any advice would be great ...

 

trying to type on my phone ...please excuse the mistakes xx

[lesley6locke]

Hi back again ..

 

First I must thank everyone who took the time to reply to my post about charging orders ..

A very BIG thank you to 'SUNDERLAND '

the reply he posted gave me what could have been the best piece of advice i have ever had ...

 

I feel I need to post a new thread as my situation has changed somewhat ...

 

I will start at the beginning ... ( I will leave out the gory details )

 

In 2005 me and my then partner separated ....

A few months later , I received a completed loan application form ,

the loan was for the sum of £10.000 , it was paid in full to my ex partner but the loan was in both our names ,

 

It turns out it was a secured loan against our home , my partner had forged my signature and that of a witness to obtain the loan

 

I contacted the finance company(Black Horse) , and told them I had not signed the agreement ....

 

After quite a few phone conversations with a young, very anxious employee

( who, I might add asked me to lie and say that i had signed the form as his job and our home was at risk )

I managed to get nowhere and decided to phone the police ...

 

My ex was taken to court and was charged with fraud

 

He was ordered to pay £25.00 per week

 

My Ex did not pay ...

 

I began to receive default notices ,

I again contacted the bank ,

This loan was nothing to do with me i did not take out any loan ..

 

Years this went on ... the final letter i received was an order to sum of £ 26.000 ...

 

Again i phoned Black Horse ,

this time i managed to get item to send me documentation that my name had been removed from the loan.....

 

I received this , in the form a signed letter

 

I thought this was the end of it all ...

 

I wanted to sell the house and requested a copy of the land registry ,

it turns out that after y ex had defaulted on the loan payments 'Black Horse decided they would place a charge on my home ,

 

 

i was told that once the mortgage had been paid off then my ex's loan would be paid off if there was any equity left it would be divided between me and my ex ,

.. so at this present moment that amount would be a big fat £ 0.00

 

I was told this on more than one occasion ,

 

 

Then i saw a post on here that made me think " You need both owners signatures to get a secured loan... "

 

Black Horse ltd had used the forged loan application to secure the charge ..

. I phoned up once again ,

I mentioned this and two weeks later a letter from the land registry turned up on my mat ...

 

The charge had been cancelled 'Yay'.....

 

I read on, it had been cancelled , but was replaced with a unilateral notice

 

I obtained both the charging order and the new Unilateral notice documents from the land registry .

..again the scanned documents attached to the documents were the forged document's both the same ....

 

Can this happen ,

It seems a little strange that Black Horse finance can use document that are proven to be false ,

I am currently trying to remove the notice , but don't really understand the effect the notice has ....

 

Black Horse have advised me that When the house is sold , they will have some say in where the money goes ,

I will get my share and my ex's share will go to Black horse ...

 

I am confused as to whether The bank has any say in how much they will accept ,

if my ex's share is not half of the equity or if it is not enough to pay of the loan

does the bank have a right to refuse the sale or refuse to remove the order

 

I have been paying the mortgage for 10 years , on my own

i have been told my partners share will be very little

 

 

there are other factors when determining his share in the house ....kids , none payment of child support ect ...

 

I am asking for any advice about this situation but am interested to know more about Unilateral Notices ...Thanks to all

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've merged your threads because it helps the advisers to see the history.

 

HB

[steampowered]

If the CCJ is against you, you will need to deal with the CCJ first. You should be able to get a copy of the CCJ by contacting the court which issued the charging order.

 

You can apply for removal of the unilateral notice on UN4. Black Horse will be able to object, so have a read of the guidance on the land registry website.

 

I think the bank is entitled to a charging order against your ex's share of the equity, but not against yours - assuming there is not a CCJ against you. As above, if there is a CCJ against you, then you need to deal with that first.

[lesley6locke]

Hi , no doubt the bank is entitled to my ex's share , but the bank no longer have a charging order against the property , they simply have an interest in where the money goes , I have read a little about Unilateral notices and while they are not supposed to effect the sale of the house i know that they do , as i am in the middle of trying to sell my house ,

 

I just wondered if Black Horse , could object in anyway if they were not happy with the amount of money they were going to receive , I mean it will not cover the loan , my ex has other assets i mean surly they could pursue him its his debt , he has a new home , re-married cars ect... seems unfair that they seem fixed on getting whats mine ..

 

Your right i need ore information about unilateral notices ,

[steampowered]

Have Black Horse formally confirmed in writing that your signature was fraudulent and that you do not owe any debt? Black Horse might not see the world the same way you do!

 

I am really concerned that there might be a CCJ sitting out there with your name on it. Once there is a CCJ in play, the basic position is that you are liable as per what is written on the CCJ. I really think you need to focus on contacting the court to bottom this out. If there is a CCJ you need to apply to the court to have it set aside urgently - once you know about a CCJ there is a requirement to get it set aside promptly, and if you can't get it set aside because the court thinks you didn't act promptly you will be very stuck.

 

If there is a CCJ out there and you leave it sitting it will come back to bite you - and indeed Black Horse would be entitled to have a charging order against your share of the property. The CCJ is the underlying basis for anything else that happens.

 

We are happy to help on CAG but given that we are presumably talking about a large amount here I would get a solicitor involved. There are lots of issues - for example, I don't think you are right to assume that your partner's share of the property will be very small - if the property was held as a joint tenancy rather than a tenancy in common, she would usually be entitled to 50% share of the property at the point the joint tenancy was severed which would be when the charging order was applied (and your sole payment of the mortgage would only be counted towards an increased share from that date). I know that is an awful lot of legalese and I hate to come across as negative, but that is the sort of reason why it may be worth dropping a bit of cash on a solicitor now to save huge issues later.

[lesley6locke]

Hi I have iti in writing from Black Horse Finance , they have confirmed that I had nothing to do with the loan application they have also sent in writing a letter confirming that hey will seeking to take the money from my ex's share , I have tried in vain to obtain the details of ccj from the court , I have seen a solicitor a few times and was told that the charging order is as stands , but it has since been cancelled by Black Horse finance when my solicitor suggested i contact Black , and suggest that they could not legally obtain the charging order using what they knew to be forged document , I think your right though i will be needing another visit to the solicitor...

[steampowered]

Which court did you contact for the CCJ details? Try to get a copy of the court file from the court which originally issued the charging order