More nonsense from the tory toffs

[tommy456]

They have not hit the pensioners as they are reliant on them for votes

[fletch70]

It is an interesting argument but I actually think it is less to do with targeting a particular group of people but more about a political ideology . Remember , capitalism and a small state is what the Tories are about. This is the same program as some states in the U.S. have, welfare for work.

They have hit many pensioners by the back door but not as obviously as they have hit the young unemployed

[tommy456]

If so they should go to the USA and set up over there, this is England we are not america and nor do we ever want to be

[fletch70]

Let's face it , politics is the same wherever you go. Labour are similar to the Tories , it is all a pile of ****e.

[tommy456]

Look how the tory toffs IDS has voted http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10180/iain_duncan_smith/chingford_and_woodford_green/votes

 

And here's how his understudy voted

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24882/esther_mcvey/wirral_west/votes

 

Both voted against the guaranteed jobs for young people, but they claim that their cuts and welfare reform is HELPING people back into work, IMO they do not know the meaning of the word help

[antone]

But this government has so far proved it likes wasting money on things that don't work welfare reform being one

 

Oh, I agree, and don't get me wrong - I have no doubt the government would like to do something like this if they thought there was any way to make it work. But as Estellyn and others have pointed out, there really is no practical way to enforce such a rule.

[tommy456]

Not without exiting the EU and no longer having the human rights as we currently have, But it's their mindset that is cause for concern, they must have a deep seated hatred for those who are not in work, there's something very wrong with them

[essexmat]

Let's make this clear - the Tories care not for any form of welfare state - if they could they would totally scrap it and privatise everything and if you were ill, disabled or out of work you would have to get by the best you could probably leading to an increase in crime, mental health and illness. Whilst the Tories are in power they are happy to let individuals and corporations avoid tax and thus hitting the poor and disabled to pay for this. As my Father says "I do not trust any political party as they are only in it for themselves, but, the cuts and way the Tories have gone about things is down right disgraceful"

 

I am not sure if Labout would do any better, all I can think is that whilst there still may be pain ahead for some the pain under a Labour regime would be significantly slower and less intrusive that the Tories who only care for the rich.

 

As for the election, too close to call IMO. I would have said with a stronger leader Labout would have won it but with Milliband in charge I do not know. All I know is that it will be a hung parliament - it is a case of who out of Tories and Labour gets the most seats and can form a coalition with whoever else - my guess is the SNP as they are predicted to gain a lot of seats - perhaps a Lab/SNP/Lib coalition. All I know is we MUST get the Tories out in May.

 

P.S Thread title - please change to OBESE

[tommy456]

done

[honeybee13]

done

 

Tommy, you can't change your own thread title, I'm afraid. Would you like it altered by a team member? I'm offering.

 

HB

[snowdragon]

have been recently watching a programme on tv about benefits, I got so mad how some of those on Benefits flaunt it and seem really well off, one of them actually said there was no way they would ever consider coming off benefits! it gives a bad name to those who actually need them.

 

The was one who was overweight and said they had no intention of losing it as they are too fat too work!

 

I for one will not vote Labour back in , rather have the raving loony party! lol

[SabreSheep]

We all know that there are a minority like that. They like the sensationalisim and the exposure they get. That is not Labours Fault. I would rather have a few like that verses the innocent people that have died or killed themselves due to the unacceptable welfare reforms this government has put in place

[essexmat]

We all know that there are a minority like that. They like the sensationalisim and the exposure they get. That is not Labours Fault. I would rather have a few like that verses the innocent people that have died or killed themselves due to the unacceptable welfare reforms this government has put in place

 

Quite.

[tommy456]

Tommy, you can't change your own thread title, I'm afraid. Would you like it altered by a team member? I'm offering.

 

HB

If you don't mind, thank's

[fletch70]

Well I have to give IBS the credit for voting for same sex marriage which suggests he has seen the error of his ways on gay rights. That women should not be in the government.

 

What you need to realise is that their political stance is that capitalism i.e inbuilt inequality actually helps the poor because of the trickle down effect. A complete load of bollox but it is what they believe as do most political parties across the western world.

 

Personally I do not think calling them toffs actually achieves anything , if their social class is the easiest way of attacking them they could say we don't have any other argument. No Tony Benn , he was a real toff as you say but gave that up . A conviction politician

[antone]

have been recently watching a programme on tv about benefits, I got so mad how some of those on Benefits flaunt it and seem really well off, one of them actually said there was no way they would ever consider coming off benefits! it gives a bad name to those who actually need them.

 

The was one who was overweight and said they had no intention of losing it as they are too fat too work!

 

I for one will not vote Labour back in , rather have the raving loony party! lol

 

See, this is the sort of thing that bothers me. We know that the current welfare reforms are throwing the poor, sick, vulnerable and indeed the temporarily unemployed under a bus in the name of the Tories profoundly anti-social agenda. We know that this process was started in the middle of the worst economic crisis since WW2. We know that millions of pounds of taxpayers' money is being funneled to private companies to run things like the Work Programme which provides no benefit to anyone except the shareholders of those companies. We know that those employers who do have genuine vacancies are not exactly queuing up to hire the sick, disabled and unemployed.

 

And yet the ridiculous fear persists: someone, somewhere, is getting a few pounds they don't "deserve"! Panic! Call the media! There's a spider in the bedroom! Burn down the house, it's the only way to be sure!

 

Because make no mistake, burning this whole system down is exactly what Cameron would like to do, and he can't do it if people actually value said system. That's why it's so important to turn benefit claimants into a bunch of fat, addicted, lazy scroungers - they're other people, the undeserving poor. By the time those who enthusiastically cheerlead the destruction of one of the most significant social advances of the last century realise what they've lost, it will be too late.

[fletch70]

IMO the Tory party would have a welfare state but it would be limited to the few 'deserving' poor so those who were too old or infirm to work and maybe if lucky a short lived amount of unemployment benefit, after that my lad it would be the workhouse. Remember it is less than 90 years since the poor laws were revoked . We think that the Tory policies are new, they are not, just a rehashing of the pre welfare state poor laws

[tommy456]

have been recently watching a programme on tv about benefits, I got so mad how some of those on Benefits flaunt it and seem really well off, one of them actually said there was no way they would ever consider coming off benefits! it gives a bad name to those who actually need them.

 

The was one who was overweight and said they had no intention of losing it as they are too fat too work!

 

I for one will not vote Labour back in , rather have the raving loony party! lol

Lets not forget how these TV media companies like to edit down stuff like this in order to portray a different view than reality, for what they would call entertainment value,

You say that some appear to be well off, why, because they have a big flat screen lcd/led tv on the wall or have nice furnishings ? all of which can be bought on credit, paid weekly,

 

And people shouldn't be considered unfit to work because they are obese, unless doing so would be a health risk to them, and others, but they would need medical evidence, those who satisfy the criteria should be awarded benefits, and if their weight is causing them health issues I'm quite sure they would that they would want to be loosing weight,as it's a known fact that obesity can be a cause premature deaths

[honeybee13]

Thread title amended tommy, I hope you're happy with the revised one?

 

HB

[SabreSheep]

Flat screen on tv? Prob brighthouse of BAYV

[fletch70]

Frankly I have no idea how anyone on JSA or other income related benefits can possibly afford something like a flat screen TV. Of course it is non of my business how they got it, are they in debt, did they get it before becoming unemployed/sick or were they given it. My TV was my Ex's first and is still fine .

 

I am also seriously concerned about the honesty of some senior members of the government who condone cash in hand work saying that it is how the economy works-cash in hand work is often not declared for tax . If they are ok with tax avoidance at that level they are condoning the major tax avoidance schemes of the super rich

[tommy456]

Thread title amended tommy, I hope you're happy with the revised one?

 

HB

it's fine

[tommy456]

Frankly I have no idea how anyone on JSA or other income related benefits can possibly afford something like a flat screen TV. Of course it is non of my business how they got it, are they in debt, did they get it before becoming unemployed/sick or were they given it. My TV was my Ex's first and is still fine .

 

I am also seriously concerned about the honesty of some senior members of the government who condone cash in hand work saying that it is how the economy works-cash in hand work is often not declared for tax . If they are ok with tax avoidance at that level they are condoning the major tax avoidance schemes of the super rich

 

On the subject of cash in hand , i know of a few people who started doing a bit of cash in hand,who went on to get employed full time after a short time cash in hand and proving themselves to their employers, to them it was either that or sit by and rot,

 

As there were no jobs available that they had previous experience /skills interests in, and jobs that they actually wanted to do,

 

I think that the majority of those long term unemployed would take a job tomorrow if the jobs where a match for their sets of skills and also where offering a living wage or wage above that, part of the problem is that there has been no shortage of migrant workers who will work for less, and government have encouraged this because its a cheap source of labour, until this changes wages will stay low

The job centre was always the last place i looked for work, the companies who are good payers and treat workers well, don't advertise in the jobcentre,in fact they probably don't need to advertise at all ,

[estellyn]

You only need to look at what has happened in Kansas to see how 'trickle down' doesn't work.

[fletch70]

Just for the record I didn't say I thought it did.

I have just told the labour party that before I vote for them they need to be a socialist party