More nonsense from the tory toffs

[tommy456]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31464897

 

I like most always knew that the man was a fool but this as well as showing everyone just how much of an idiot he is, this is asking for trouble, as forcing anyone to have treatment would surely infringe their human rights, as would be denying them benefits on those grounds, not to mention he has clearly forgotten that our broken NHS cannot cope as things are now without adding more pressure,

 

He and his cronies really have no clue, They have obviously lost some of the grey matter they where born with ,(assuming that they had sufficient to begin life with)

[caro]

It'll save a fortune on the benefits bill just like not paying people who are depressed.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10964125/Tories-discuss-stripping-benefits-claimants-who-refuse-treatment-for-depression.html

 

The scary thing is that on bbc news earlier people seemed to think it was a good idea!!

[tommy456]

I won't just be saving money, but more cutting the numbers on benefits so they can falsely claim as they do now that they have "HELPED" More people back into work than the previous government or since 2010 followed by more of the brown stuff that comes out of a bull's behind

[SabreSheep]

So lets review shall we

 

1) Hit people who live in "houses too big for them" with the room tax.

2) Hit the unemployed by increasing sanctions, mandatory work schemes, removal of support.

3) Keep the unemployed, unemployed by removing real schemes that help people. (emergency grants, back to work support etc)

4) Hit the sick by "Curing them just by telling them they are fit to work" and then kicking them of esa.

5) Hit the unemployed again by introducing daily signing etc

6) Hit the disabled, kicking them off esa and delaying new claims for pip

7) hit the unemplyed again, suggest that we take away their cars.

 

Oh well we need new people to pick on,

 

8) withdraw benefits from people that are fat! Maybe they will not eat all those burgers, afterall all fat claiments choose to sit home all day eating mcdonalds.....(sarcasim)

9) Oh i know, we can help alcaholics and druggies by taking away their money as well.

 

so what next?

 

10) Anyone with less than 10k savings are to be sent to a debtors prison?

11) Dont have Blonde hair, withdraw your benefits

 

this is eurgenics concealed

[caro]

Agreed. The amount of newly self employed people who can't make a living, along with those sanctioned to make unemployment figures look better is sickening. No doubt we'll get more of this bs in the lead up to the election.

[caro]

So lets review shall we

 

1) Hit people who live in "houses too big for them" with the room tax.

2) Hit the unemployed by increasing sanctions, mandatory work schemes, removal of support.

3) Keep the unemployed, unemployed by removing real schemes that help people. (emergency grants, back to work support etc)

4) Hit the sick by "Curing them just by telling them they are fit to work" and then kicking them of esa.

5) Hit the unemployed again by introducing daily signing etc

6) Hit the disabled, kicking them off esa and delaying new claims for pip

7) hit the unemplyed again, suggest that we take away their cars.

 

Oh well we need new people to pick on,

 

8) withdraw benefits from people that are fat! Maybe they will not eat all those burgers, afterall all fat claiments choose to sit home all day eating mcdonalds.....(sarcasim)

9) Oh i know, we can help alcaholics and druggies by taking away their money as well.

 

so what next?

 

10) Anyone with less than 10k savings are to be sent to a debtors prison?

11) Dont have Blonde hair, withdraw your benefits

 

this is eurgenics concealed

 

I almost mentioned blue eyed Arians.

[fletch70]

While there is some merit to the idea that if someone is not trying to get better then why should the state help there are a lot of issues that need addressing first

Obviously this is a idea designed to appeal to our friends who read the D.M. and that awful woman who was on BBC breakfast this morning however

1) There needs to be treatment freely and sufficiently available e.g mental health , dieticians etc

2) Benefits need to be sufficient so that people can afford to eat a 'healthy' diet and not one of 99p ready meals full of sugars and fats

3) A really accurate system of diagnosis , if someone is obese why, could it be MH issues or physical health problems

4) Who will decide what is appropriate treatment , some target driven minion at the DWP or some work provider or even some less than impartial GP

 

Apparently it could save £10,000,000 which yes does sound a lot of money but actually when looked at in relation to the total government expenditure is peanuts

 

There really needs to be support for people seeking help not a big stick to hit them with

[caro]

I am lucky not to need to rely on benefits, but as my job may go in the not too distant future this could change. I have an underactive thyroid, for which I take medication, eat a healthy diet, and regularly go to the gym and swim in a vain effort to lose weight. I have tried various drugs from the doctor for weight loss but unpleasant side effects rule these out.

 

So if I have to sign on will I be barred from benefits because I'm fat, and who will decide if I'm doing enough to deal with it and can have a pittance, or should I be immediately sanctioned?

[id6052]

i think it will flat on the face, the people they are targetting will just reclaim on other grounds

 

e.g.

those with addiction issues, will claim on basis of underlying psychiatric/mental health issues which actually cause the addiction problem

those with obesity issues, will claim on basis of related physical health conditions which may have contributed to or been caused by the obesity issues

 

sounds good to tory supporters/DM readers/Tax(non)Payers Alliance - but will fail to deliver promised savings - just like so many other elements of Welfare Reform

[SabreSheep]

Apparently it could save £10,000,000 which yes does sound a lot of money but actually when looked at in relation to the total government expenditure is peanuts

 

It will cost more than that to provide the support and police and administrate.....

[Sparks_]

Call me cynical but this next round of benefit attacks was released on the same day as the news of the HSBC bank helping the rich with tax avoidance! Coincidence or?

[sadone]

Yeah I've read on certain welfare blogs that this is the beginning of a week of attacks on benefit claimants in the media by the government in a bid to draw attentions away from the latest banking scandal.

 

Sadly I'm sure it will work too.

[tommy456]

Yeah I've read on certain welfare blogs that this is the beginning of a week of attacks on benefit claimants in the media by the government in a bid to draw attentions away from the latest banking scandal.

 

Sadly I'm sure it will work too.

They wouldn't be happy if it caused civil unrest on a national scale, it will come to that if they keep on with this persecution as it will get to a point where people feel they have little to loose, and the prospect of being thrown in prison will start to be seen as way of being better off, and that would cost the tax payer a dam sight more wouldn't it just

[Mr.P]

so what next?

 

this is eugenics concealed

 

You missed a few:

 

12) Short bald ones - Male or female.

13) Elderly without private pensions.

14) Pensioners who can no longer afford end of life care fees.

15) Ginger tops - They have to be worse than blondes

 

Alternatively, scrap all benefits and ship those that can't afford to live off to the Isle of Wight.

[caro]

You missed a few:

 

12) Short bald ones - Male or female.

13) Elderly without private pensions.

14) Pensioners who can no longer afford end of life care fees.

15) Ginger tops - They have to be worse than blondes

 

Alternatively, scrap all benefits and ship those that can't afford to live off to the Isle of Wight.

 

Don't forget to sell off the NHS!

[fletch70]

You forgot the ugly and disabled ones . Nice home for them near a disused Welsh Quarry at the end of a railway track.

 

Caro that is exactly my point, who decides what constitutes an acceptable cause of obesity and who says if the treatment attempted is suitable

[worried33]

Cameron doesn't live in the real world.

 

I have probably been suffering malnutrition for god knows how many years due to been unable to afford to eat properly, now I am eating as advised but the amount I am spending is far from sustainable, I have spent about 30% of my 2 year backdated DLA money in the past year on food.

 

Someone e.g. on JSA or assessment rate ESA, no chance. Of course these idiots think that's plenty of money but instead we all spending the money on drugs and alcohol.

 

Also forcing people to have treatment opens a big can of worms.

 

Also regarding obesity we are all built different and not to mention certain conditions can cause obesity, how would this work? its crazy.

[antone]

I think people who spend too much time nosing into the personal affairs of those on benefits should be taxed at a higher rate. Spending one's life in a self-induced and entirely avoidable state of frothing rage can't possibly be good for the heart or blood pressure, and think what all those unnecessary strokes and cardiac arrests must be costing the NHS.

 

Anyone who is suspected of showing an unhealthy and inappropriate degree of nosiness about the lives of their fellow citizens should be referred to an untrained HMRC counsellor (AO grade) who will decide what treatment is appropriate. If the taxpayer refuses treatment, their basic rate of tax will be increased by 5% for a first offence, rising to 15% for subsequent occurances.

[Nystagmite]

Love it, Antone!

 

This is actually a hard one:

I have a relative who is fat and does nothing about his weight. He actually (I don't know how) managed to get a payout from the navy because, apparently, it's their responsibility to keep an eye on him. We're not talking about a man with severe learning disabilities with no concept of when to stop eating, etc. He knows what he's doing; but won't take responsibility for himself. He has an underactive thyroid. But unlike my sister, he won't do anything about it.

 

But I know this isn't the case for every obese person and some do have health issues which do make losing weight difficult.

[Mr.P]

I almost mentioned blue eyed Arians.

 

If you want to explore that road, I give you Andrei Molodkin

Just don't tell Cameron or any of his psychotic buddies in case they see it as a solution to two problems (how to tackle public health, and an impending oil shortage).

[caro]

If you want to explore that road, I give you Andrei Molodkin

Just don't tell Cameron or any of his psychotic buddies in case they see it as a solution to two problems (how to tackle public health, and an impending oil shortage).

 

OMG doesn't bear thinking about! Makes you wonder how some people's mind works.

[tommy456]

who decides what constitutes an acceptable cause of obesity and who says if the treatment attempted is suitable

Maximus will get that contract most probably and they will use a software solution for decisions, so the DWP can say computer says no

[Lapsed Workaholic]

If you want to explore that road, I give you Andrei Molodkin

Just don't tell Cameron or any of his psychotic buddies in case they see it as a solution to two problems (how to tackle public health, and an impending oil shortage).

 

 

This man's solution could be just the answer.

 

I have already started to eye up the neighbours to assess how many miles to the gallon I could get out of them. To help me with this I'll be applying for an oil exploration grant such as the big oil companies get.

 

Tackling obesity would be counter-productive however, one would require more bodies to fill one's tank. Like getting turkeys ready for Christmas, we should be encouraging people to pile on the weight. To that end I am preparing a list of the most fatty foods to take to the food banks which I intend to re-designate 'filling stations' or 'fuel dumps'.

 

This time next year we'll be millionaires.

[estellyn]

The only people who would be affected by this are people whose cause of their physical issues is the fact that they are obese. so it only applies to ESA, DLA and PIP.

 

They can't mandate anyone have surgery, or take medications, so that only leaves diet and lifestyle changes which are only 5% effective long term - about as effective as the work program.

 

It costs more money to eat healthily, something benefit claimants are not able to do.

 

It costs money to run programs for the claimants to follow.

 

How do you monitor compliance? In attending a program? In actually losing weight? If the latter, then how much is deemed acceptable and who makes that judgement? And imagine the pressure - if you don't lose x amount of lbs in x weeks then we sanction you? Or if it's only in attendance, then you're actually sanctioning people in a similar way to the work program - miss an appt and your benefit stops.

 

Who pays for the comprehensive testing to look for possible causes of obesity? And what causes would be exempt? Or would no causes be exempt? Just another excuse for sanctioning those that fail to attend mandated appts.

 

I don't know any obese person with health issues because of it, who wouldn't sell their soul to lose weight. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be lots of obesity in this country. The truth is that none of the current programs are particularly effective for long term sustainable weight loss. Obesity science is still a new area with developments happening constantly. Obesity is a complex issue, and unless the government is planning on on doing comprehensive testing, both genetic, and on the myriad endocrine pathways that have been discovered then this is simply another sanction opportunity and not a scheme to really help people.

 

There are plenty of people with other treatable/preventable issues claiming benefit that are not being targeted, but they don't raise the ire of the DM set.

[Nystagmite]

If they start with obese people, I won't be surprised if they then start on people with other issues which they deem people self inflicted. Yet, for many, the cause isn't always the same and won't always be self inflicted.