refused council dilapidated house, intentionally homeless. left to die on streets

[christopherlaw]

sorry if i do not entertain your company

[Conniff]

And the post is ?

[think about it]

Can I please be brutally honest as someone who isn't on the site team?

 

The rules of the forum are really straightforward and then slinging mud and making accusations of bias in separate threads doesn't add any weight to an argument of perceived mis-treatment. Doing that in any online forum is likely to end in a pretty swift ban and moderation of threads.

 

We discuss, openly, some very contentious subjects but occasionally someone starts to take honest discussion as personal attack, it is not. When threads are no longer productive they should be locked. If I wanted to argue online I'd find somewhere else to do it.

 

Likewise, picking lumps out of an OP doesn't lead to someone feeling valued as a member, even if the issue raised by the OP is of questionable merit.

[christopherlaw]

i think they should apply the same rules to their moderators then as clearly they dont

 

looking at the site rules

 

1.4 The Group is not responsible for the views or actions of its users who post on this website.

 

funny that as the admin team, generally the people who respond (do not answer) thread questions, seem to decide whos views are valid and whos are not.

Youll get more freedom blogging in the daily mail than you will on this forum

 

 

1.7 Above all else, use your common sense, be respectful and reasonable to people and companies.

 

seems to be a one way street

 

so will someone answer the question i asked or your as well closing this thread to

[think about it]

 

how long does this unusual punishment last if you are struck of by a council? Seemingly indefinite.

 

 

Is that it for you? Looks like your priority status is revoked putting you at the back of the queue.

 

 

are you just left to die on the streets or maybe luckily find a prison cell? Neither, you're put amongst the rest of the applicants.

 

 

Chris, look here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20054/council_and_housing_association_homes/352/find_a_home , in particular the link to download the council's letting policy and take your attention to:

3.8 Refused PropertiesPeople with priority who refuse a property unreasonably may lose their priority status.

I'd study the policy and any scope for appeals over their definition of reasonable refusal. I think, in all honesty that somewhere needing a clean-up and carpets meets the letting standards and you may struggle to demonstrate how your definition of reasonable/unreasonable differs fundamentally from theirs.

 

 

[citizenB]

I was offered a house which was in dilapidated condition from the council.

 

At the time an acquaintance tried to sort me out with a shared private let,

rather than move into this house of horrors, but this fell through.

 

The council deemed me intentionally homeless because of this.

I was refused access to my housing officer and refused my right to make a complaint about the property,

at the time when i had to make a decision.

 

I had a couple of days time frame to make this decision.

 

My appeal failed and i was to be cast onto the streets like a leper, but fortunately luck was on my side.

 

An near impossible feat for an unemployed person in Edinburgh,

i found a private let through an x-landlord i was with while i was at university here.

 

So my question is, how long does this unusual punishment last if you are struck of by a council?

 

Is that it for you?

 

are you just left to die on the streets or maybe luckily find a prison cell?

 

Long gone are the days where people are offered social housing that is brand new or nearly new. Long gone are the days where social housing has had a team go in and redecorate when one tenant has left and the next one moves in.

 

You have said that the bathroom and kitchen were newly installed - it looked to me as though the windows were also of a good quality. The walls look sound with no crumbling plaster. You did not mention any damp patches or mold smells.

 

Whoever takes on the tenancy of that property simply needs to give it a good clean, strip the floorboards or carpet, remove the old wall paper and either replace or paint.

 

You were not prepared to do that - fine, that is your right. However, the council have considered your refusal to consider the property to be unreasonable.

 

I am pretty certain that you would not be expected to live on the streets - there are hostels for single people or B&B.

 

If you believed the property was uninhabitable, then you could have made a complaint either directly to, or via your MP to the Health & Safety team !

[christopherlaw]

have you stats for the people who are left on the street like that?

How many die soon after or land in prison?

 

As explained i got a private let,

I am asking out of curiosity and because i think its an issue which should be openly talked about as it is a travesty of justice.

 

It one thing saying i could have gotten the property and done it up, but how are people supposed to fund the sort of work needed to do that property up on £73 a week which is entirely consumed by living expenses/ utility bills.

 

Unfortunately these people may have more to worry about than coming on to blogg here so i thought i would raise the question for them.

Thank you for answering "think about it"

 

"I am pretty certain that you would not be expected to live on the streets - there are hostels for single people or B&B."

 

no i would not,i had already spent a year in hostiles surrounded by heroin addicts, putting up with all sorts of absurd abuse, before i was offered this accomodation. Once you knock back your offer of permanent housing the council wipe there hands off you. If you are unable to find a private let like most people in this situation, you are left on the streets

 

"If you believed the property was uninhabitable, then you could have made a complaint either directly to, or via your MP to the Health & Safety team !"

 

I have tried contacting an MP before and the process was as good as useless. The MP just emails you back confirming the councils position and tellingyou what you already know. I made an appeal on the decision stating my concerns and was knocked back within the week.

[Ros1609]

I have had three council properties. Each time I have had to repaint some or all of the property, replace carpet/laminate flooring, wallpaper etc at a cost to myself because what the Council provided did not cover the full cost of redecorating. Its fairly standard procedure for the majority of councils and tennants. I really fail to see your problem

[Jake Maverick]

yep, u spend thousands (if you got it) making place habitable then the anonymous knobheads steal it back/ any thing else you own of value as well and then charge you hundred odd pound an item as a 'clearance fee'.......

[Jake Maverick]

I have tried contacting an MP before and the process was as good as useless. The MP just emails you back confirming the councils position and tellingyou what you already know. I made an appeal on the decision stating my concerns and was knocked back within the week.

 

ditto + my MP also had me visciously beaten up and gang raped....same guy that defrauded thousands from the public purse for his duck moat, amongst other things

[christopherlaw]

i have many personal problems with this property, but the main problem which i was highlighting was the ease that council dismisses peoples concerns and throws them on the street, and what this inevitable means for those who find themselves in that position

 

its plain to see that this property is very badly smoked damage, we are talking 60 years of chain smoking here. It is not as if a lick of paint will fix it. I congradulate you in your efforts in refurbishing 3 homes at your own expense.

[id6052]

on 2 occasions when i was homeless, i was offering bare flats which needed a lot of decorating and work done

 

my choices were taking the flat or losing my priority status and going to bottom of list and sleeping on the street

 

on both occasions, i was so grateful to have a roof over my head and to get council accommodation, that i nearly bit their hand off

 

yes, i was unemployed and on jobseekers and could not afford much money, i relied on charities for second hand furniture, and buying some paint each time i got my JSA to slowly redecorate

 

it was hard but better than living on the street

[stu007]

Hi

 

You did ask initially how long a punishment of intentionally homeless would last.

 

This link from Scottish Government, Code of Guidance on Homelessness, Specifically CHAPTER 7 - INQUIRIES INTO INTENTIONALITY:

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2005/05/31133334/33445

 

Period for which intentionality lasts - (Quoted from above link)

 

7.24 If a local authority decides that a person became homeless intentionally, the person should not be considered to be intentionally homeless for all time; nor should a fixed period of disqualification be applied.

 

7.25 If a further application is made then that application should be considered on its merits. If there is reason to believe that there has been a change of circumstance, for example if through social work support the behaviour of a person evicted for anti-social behaviour has improved, or if some genuine efforts are being made to reduce rent arrears, then there may well be sufficient grounds to merit a review of the earlier decision, taking into account the altered circumstances. Applicants should be given a clear indication of what change of circumstances would allow them to apply again or have their case reconsidered.

 

The full Code of Guidance on Homelessness is at this link: http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2005/05/31133334/33366

 

As for how long it would last with your own Local Council you would have to write to the Local Council and request a copy of their Homelessness Policy to see what it states as each Councils may be different.

Edited February 17, 2015 by stu007

[citizenB]

It wasn't plain at all - as I pointed out in a previous post - the video was of very poor quality, so whilst you could see that it needed a darn good clean and decorating, there was IMHO, no good reason for you to reject it.

 

Now if it had been something like the images in the attached.. then I could well have understood your refusal..

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7466700/Mentally-ill-man-died-of-hypothermia-in-housing-hovel-inquest-told.html

 

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/local/operation-exposes-squalid-damp-homes-1-6964883

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2172433/Tenant-leaves-house-hellhole-kicking-doors-letting-stray-dogs-run-wild-act-renters-revenge.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155898/How-live-like-Inside-disgusting-home-parents-forced-children-grow-squalor.html

 

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/darlington/11075357.Landlord_fined_for_a_second_time_for_allowing_people_to_live_in__squalid_and_dangerous__house_in_Darlington/?ref=rss

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246973/Slum-landlord-David-McCabe-left-tenants-Dickensian-squalor-faces-letting-ban-Britains-property-rental-ASBO.html

[id6052]

citizenB

 

thanks for those pics, looking at those make me feel less of a slob, lol

[citizenB]

citizenB

 

thanks for those pics, looking at those make me feel less of a slob, lol

 

I trust you weren't eating at the time.. made me feel quite ill .. shudder..

[Filcin]

It one thing saying i could have gotten the property and done it up, but how are people supposed to fund the sort of work

 

You are expecting me a taxpayer to fund it without you doing anything. What's the betting you have a phone.

[Grumpy consumer]

Well an interesting thread. As an outsider looking in I have to say I have never been homeless or had the misfortune to have to sleep rough; except for the odd night which was self inflicted. Should I have the need of shelter and a relatively safe place to sleep I would accept even the link places as better than the street. At least from there you have a base from which to complain and stand a greater chance of being re-housed. I can understand people having standards, but I'm afraid sometimes one can only beg to differ with others and go our separate ways.

 

It was nice to see the question was finally answered.

[christopherlaw]

thanks for that stu007

 

i have to add to these findings that although i really appreciate the response and the information is good, there are between 350 and 1500 street homeless in Edinburgh on any given night, depending which source I get my in for from.

 

Shelter claim 350, a crisis worker claimed 1500.

 

Obviously people fall between the lines of the government documentation.

I was told i would be left on the street because i missed the 2 day deadline to make a decision on the property in question, and i have evidence to prove it.

 

This was valuable information though and i will look into it at depth

 

I've been through it, i don't know where to start. It was a horrendous experience and i can only hope you are not under the jurisdiction of edinburgh council.

 

Initially you will be sent to B&bs. They will put your stuff in storage and your only allowed to take 2 black bags of belongings with you.

 

Say bye bye yo the rest of your stuff until you find a secure tenancy which will most likely be 1 year. The good news is that if you complain enough they will find supported accomodation or a temp flat for you after some time .

 

Then you can pay £60 to go to the storage unit and get some of your belongings back.

 

People who are homeless often have problems, particularily substance abuse.

They are clumped together like in some sort of segregation unit for the poverty stricken.

 

Conditions are terrible and this often leads to people going in a downhill spiral being caught in the cycle that such poor social planning brings.

 

Make sure it does not happen to you, you got to either fight for your rights or if possible save up and get out of there

 

could people stop using the thread as a place to moan about paying taxes like they were the only ones in the world who ever did a days work, thanks, much appreciated

 

the best place to start for advice will be the advice section of the council, in Edinburgh this is called the "advice shop".

 

They will send you to a 3rd sector agency who will provide support and work on your side. If you are reasonably literate and computer savy then you might not think it is necessary to contact these people, but i highly recommend that you do, as councils can treat you highly unfairly in order to meet austerity measure cut targets, so having one of these organisations helping you helps you get a fair trial

 

you dont have privacy in the B&B places, alot of the staff seem to be x military and enter your room when you are not there and demand right of access at anytime.

 

The council are equally as unhelpful, for instance they never gave me forewarning about the 2 bag policy, so within 1 week i had been moved to 3 separate B&Bs, mainly because of the fact i had brought 8 black bags worth of stuff.

 

I spent a weeks dole money paying for taxis transferring accommodation alone.

 

The fact you have a kid should benefit you greatly, i hope you do not have the experience i had but feel i wouldn't be doing you justice if i didn't highlight some of the possible experiences you could face

 

sorry i started writing not realising the time span this thread had been running being new to the forum yesterday.

 

Glad to hear you got a flat, i can relate to the crazy neighbour.

 

i had the police out about the neighbor around 20 time when i was in temp accom flat.

 

He had no carpets and habitually ust to hit objects of the floor sometimes 18 hrs out of the day, suffice to say he wasn't wired properly.

 

to top it of there was a whole in one of my cupboards which led directly into his flat. you couldnt fit an adult through it, maybe a small child

[SabreSheep]

could people stop using the thread as a place to moan about paying taxes like they were the only ones in the world who ever did a days work, thanks, much appreciated

 

They are entitled to a viewpoint. If you do not like it, either debate against it, or ignore it.

 

I think the overriding thing here is that some people believe the world owe them everything. JSA, ESA, Housing? Without wanting to sound like a right wing tory sympathiser (My other posts will disprove that str8 away) if osoene makes themselves intentionally homeless then there is only so much that should be done. Thankfully you got a private let, but if i were in your shoes, I too would have bitten their hand off.

 

The big lesson here is that if something you do not like happens in your life, reserch it before making a decision. Learn the procedures and turn the bureaucracy against itself.

[*RainbowTears*]

no i would not,i had already spent a year in hostiles surrounded by heroin addicts, putting up with all sorts of absurd abuse, before i was offered this accomodation. Once you knock back your offer of permanent housing the council wipe there hands off you. If you are unable to find a private let like most people in this situation, you are left on the streets

 

None of us on here know you Christopher, so anything said is not a personal attack on you.

 

Everyone who responds will have different opinions & will not always agree/disagree & they will vary greatly. (As we all have our own life stories & backgrounds).

 

This is a personal situation for you. I'm sure living in Hostels, in conditions that most would find abhorrent, you faced different challenges & dealt with it on a daily basis. (I've been homeless myself & through the B&B hovel hell twice, so I do have a little understanding).

 

I can appreciate it was hard, but you did it & came out the other end.

 

At which point the Council finally offered a place that was yours for the offering.

 

Which in my humble opinion with its new kitchen & bathroom, looks like it could have required a good clean (sugar soap is marvellous on old smoke stains) & then you could redecorate as & when you could afford too.

 

As for furniture etc, places like the Council, Charities & Salvation Army can & do help with these items. (I was taken to a large warehouse where I was allowed to pick for myself various items to furnish my home).

 

Now for you, it may seem unfair & unjust that you were offered this 1 place & that due to your not taking it for whatever reason, your now no longer on the Council Housing list. I can only say that when your taken for a viewing the HO will normally make it clear to any future Tenant, that you have only a certain time period in which to accept or not the property being offered.

 

As there will be a list of "others" all waiting behind you for your decision.

 

I am also sure the figures you quoted on those Homeless, would have bitten the hand of the HO in accepting a roof over their heads.

 

So for me, I do not understand your reasons for not accepting it. A roof over your head will always be a priority especially as there's so little Social Housing available & the Private Rented sector is expensive, with its fees, rents & deposits required upfront.

 

Where I live now you cannot get a Council property even if your in the priority band. Council Housing lists are years & years long, no matter what your circumstances are.

 

Sometimes you have to accept the responsibility of a situation yourself, so it was entirely up to you at the time whether to accept or refuse the property & then deal with the consequences for not taking it.

 

Please do not take my post as criticism, it is my own opinion based on my own Homeless experiences & my being honest on your posts.

[christopherlaw]

No sabresheep, not everyone on here is allowed a point of view. if your view strains away from the middle class bureaucratic point of view of the admin staff, you get your thread closed. Please refer to my previous threads. Now, while your on posting on my thread please be respectful, thank you! Obviously to much to ask

 

As i said in the post (rainbow tears), i was offered alternative accommodation at the time through an acquaintance and only had a 2 day period to make a choice on the council property. This fell through, it was more a hesitation than a refusal.

 

I was refused the right to meet my housing officer at the time, and refused the right to complain about the state of the place. You would think this would be a monumental time in a homeless persons life where he should get accesss to these resources in making this decision, why do they have housing officers otherwise. Instead i was constantly bullied by a woman down the phone who i had never met, into coming in and signing the property into my name with out having the right to put my views across. Regardless of how desperate and grateful people think i should have felt, i am a firm believer that homeless people have rights to, and they are not to blame for the shortage of housing. Its a socially engineered ploy to keep people desperate and competitive with in the capitalist system, so they will except exploitative working and housing conditions.

[think about it]

Chris, I'm sorry but I've rented places worse than that and had to spend time and money getting them to a point where I'm happy with them. There's no social engineering here just a lack of resources to make every local authority property something you'd see on the property pages of a broadsheet paper. You come across as a well educated, well versed person and yet when it came to the crunch you made a decision (albeit through inaction) without first checking what the implications were. I found that policy I posted in 30 seconds of Google-fu. Everyone, regardless of our own experience can empathise with the situation but having worked in advice services in the central belt from several years before moving away I know that free, reliable advice is available. In making such a big decision it's always best to check the implications first, a lesson harshly learnt it seems on this occasion.

 

I've said on earlier posts to you that we can, do and will offer advice when we can but let's make something perfectly clear, we may not always share the same point of view on things. That does not, under any circumstances mean that it's acceptable to start mud slinging on your posts. That is what gets a thread locked not some twisted political or social class based ideal. Challenging a point of view is what we'll do when, in the eyes of the policy concerned, your issues won't carry any weight. We'd sooner be honest with you than blow sunshine up your nose just to make you feel good.

[christopherlaw]

look, do you mind finding another thread unless you have something to add think about it. thanks for your contribution

 

you pointed to one thing i would like to contest; " free, reliable advice is available". This is something i have found untrue and again have gathered much evidence to the contrary; even CAB frequently come back with wrong answers; local council policy seems enshrined in a cloud of secrecy.

 

They will try and trick and manipulate people into not getting there entitlement because there is simply not enough resources to go around.

 

People have a problem with the word entitlement but it is a completely valid word used by the DWP and councils.

 

Everyone has a different entitlement depending on personal circumstances.

[honeybee13]

look, do you mind finding another thread unless you have something to add think about it. thanks for your contribution

 

Hello again.

 

If you mean think about it, users here are perfectly entitled to post on other people's threads and disagree with them, as long as they do it politely and within site rules. The same applies to you as well, you've posted on threads started by other people.

 

HB