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Another daughter....another problem please help


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Hi Guys

 

I have started a new thread as this issue is with regards to another of my daughters for those that are aware or are helping with my other thread this issue is still ongoing

 

Anyway back to this daughter,she is a level 3 qualified nursery nurse works in a private nursery and has done for 2.5 years

 

She arrived at work on Friday morning and her manager and deputy to be told she was being suspended when she asked why her manager said "I'm not going into it now" so she was sent home rang Acas when she got home because she wanted to know could they suspend her without telling her why they said that this could but online it says that they can't

 

She rang her manager and asked again why she had been suspended the manager said she would ring someone and ring her back she didn't, my daughter also rang the area manager and left a message later that day the area manager rang and said my daughter would be hand delivered a letter stating why she had been suspended at some point today (Friday)

 

At around teatime (my daughters shift started at 8am) she recieved another call from her area manager saying that she couldn't deliver her a letter as she hadn't been able to get home of the safeguarding people all day they said they would ring today (Monday) to see how she was

 

My daughter has racked her brains and can only come up with one possible issue this could be about she had a little boy in her room who's mother also works at the nursery and also works in the same room as her child he is 14 months old and a biter he had only recently moved to my daughters room and there has been at least 1 incident of biting another child each time he was there (he does 1 day a week)

 

On Thursday when my daughter last worked they had a "mock ofsted" visit so everyone was on edge my daughter had witnessed this mother practically deny this child was hers when the "ofsted" people were in the room by making remarks such as "mummy has forgot to put spare socks in your bag" etc she also stated to my daughter she wish she could have "him picked up while mock ofsted was there" she has stated she "couldn't have him full time" she said to my daughter just before he moved over to her room some 3/4 months ago "just to let you know I have no control over him" she has also told my daughter and the manager "if you let him keep his dummy he won't bite anyone" this is something the nursery do not allow

 

When he does pin another child down to bite them she laughs and makes comments such as "that's enough cuddles now" and on one occasion in his previous room where he did bite another child and left a nasty Mark on her face she said to the injured child "you shouldn't have took his dummy out then should you" She also wrote this on the "incident" form causing the manager to raise in the next staff meeting that incident forms should not be written in a way that blames the child

 

We do not know what has been said but my daughters colleague who also works in her room has told her that this mother was in and out the room all day after my daughters suspension being called away by management our feeling is that my daughter has spoke to the manager several times about this Childs behaviour she text her manager on Thursday evening and asked for a meeting the following day to discuss his behaviour because it has quite an impact on the room and the other children

During Thirsday last week my daughters last working day she returned from her lunch to find the 2 other members of staff putting wellies on the children this child had a little girl pinned down and he was biting the back of her neck my daughter walked over to him picked him up stood him on his feet the child on the floor was extremely distressed she straightened his clothing and took him over to a activity she knows he likes she then went back and picked up the upset child who had slobber on the back of her neck and comforted her all this time the child's mother was saying "that's enough cuddles now ahhhhh"

 

I know we can't really do anything until we know what the allegation is and I have managed to secure her a union rep just wanted your thoughts?

 

Thanks guys

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You can be suspended with the lines ( following a complaint that we need to investigate, or you are being suspended whilst we investigate an allegation. In very sensitive cases the full facts will not be given at the time of suspension. That is my understanding. )

 

When your daughter is called in she will be told the full allegation and it will go from there.

 

Again, as has been said before, Is she in a union?

 

The union are best placed to advise at investigations and if it is a conduct or capabilities issue they can advise.

 

It's a waiting game at the moment.

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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Hello, I am sorry you are going through this again! As you know, everything has to be investigated where kids are involved; try and remember that.

 

You're doing everything right at the moment. Keep daughter as busy as you can so she has less time to brood. Time for a spring clean.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Hi Guys

 

Thanks so much to you both for your replies 😊

 

My daughter rang her employer yesterday around 2 pm and asked for a update here is the allegation

 

They claim she grabbed a child by the arm "took him to the floor" and restrained him they also claim they have a witness

What really happened was

My daughter was sat cross legged on the floor with a child on her lap the child ( who is the biter) crawled out of the box stood up and attempted to push a child over my daughter leant forward with the child still in her lap this was right in front of her and picked the child up from behind under his armpits she sat him on her left knee after moving the other child to her right knee the child squirmed my daughter believes he wanted to go to his mum who was doing a hand over with another parent my daughter turned him to face her putting his legs either side of her knee she rubbed his back reassuring him it was ok and he could see mummy in a min after bidding the parent and child leaving goodbye she stood the child up and told him he could now go to mummy which he did and she picked him up

 

Nothing was said to my daughter by anyone including the child's mother in the 30 mins or so after that before she went home we don't know who the witness is I believe itbis my daughters room colleague but my daughter doesn't because she was messaging her asking what was wrong and where she had gone

The nursery runs a quite fearful atmosphere amongst the staff General feeling is it is "dog eat dog" that phrase is used a lot there so a witness backing a story up that didn't happen is not surprising

 

Anyway my daughter was told that her manager and operations manager have a meeting with "lado " tomorrow (Thursday) she was asked to write a statement and send it in or email one over my daughter asked ok do you need that for Thursday? She was told no not really be nice to have it but it's not urgent :-/ after having a read up on what Lado is it seems a little like they have made thier mind up despite telling my daughter on the phone I am not saying any of this is true

 

Anyway she emailed her version of events she was told they didn't need to know about the whole day just that incident so she had not been able to tell them all the other incidents that day involving this child and his mother

Thanks again I will update hopefully Thursday afternoon please let me know any thoughts in the meantime

 

Thanks guys

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You can do nothing right these days in the care/support network I got out of it years ago after an alligation against me and swore never to go back into it I used to work in the mental health field.

 

Glad you got a rep sorted for her and fingers crossed it's just a storm in a teacup.

 

Bill

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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Hi Bill

 

You are right and now my daughter is talking of getting out of it also which is a shame she has worked hard for where she is

 

They have tonight sent the deputy manager to hand deliver a letter just stating that she is suspended on the advice of Lado then it says they have a meeting with Lado tomorrow so who knows what will happen

 

I am hoping you are right and it all blows over she has found some good points in her policies and procedures regarding this kind of thing it does state that she should have been confronted immediately and any delay in reporting what was seen would result in the "reporter and the witness" being subject to the same diciplinary procedures as my daughter of course that hasn't happened they are not suspended and are still at work

 

I will let you know tomorrow as soon as we hear Thanks again :)

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fingers crossed.

 

Bill

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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Hi guys

 

But of a update my daughters manager and area manager had a meeting with Lado yesterday as I explained in my earlier post

 

Lado have said it is not a safeguarding issue and the matter should be dealt with internally so I am thinking that is good news

My daughter put many phone calls in yday afternoon because she was eager to know what happened she was told she would receive a call "in a min" then "within the hour" when she finally spoke to the area manager she explained everything to her and told her she would ring her today (Friday) she said to my daughter "if I don't there's no need to chase me up" my daughter was upset by this she just feels like she is trying to clear her name

She is upset about what her colleagues think of her I told her not to worry anyway they said she may have a investigation meeting Monday but I doubt her Union rep will be free so soon

 

I will of course let you all know but the Lado responce is a good thing right? Thanks again guys for all your help

 

Thanks guys

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Hi Emmzzi

 

Thanks for your reply

 

I think they should have rang when they said they would and she wouldn't have put so many calls in everytime she has managed to get hold of them they have had info to tell her

 

She can't get in trouble for trying to find out what has happened I'm sure her Union rep will second that

 

Thanks again

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Are there CCTV?

If so, your daughter needs to request the footage with a sar as a matter of urgency, before they delete them.

Sounds like the usual false allegations made by spiteful people.

I hope one day all of these lifeless liars will pay for their selfish ways.

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Hi King

 

Thanks for reply

 

There is no CCTV and you are right it is a false allegation

 

But of an update my daughter has a investigation meeting Monday her Union rep has assured her she will be fine on her own she is nervous but determined to get the truth across I will update on Monday

 

Thanks guys

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Regarding the rep If rep not available she can and I would say she is best to adjourn the meeting until a rep is available, no matter what the rep has said as they have no idea what will be said in that meeting.

 

If Lado have stated it is not a safeguarding issue that is in her favor and she can request further training in how to manage this type of situation should it ever arise again puts the ball back in the company's hands and highlights training issues.

 

Bill

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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There is no right to be accompanied during an investigation meeting which is probably why the rep is not going.

 

She just has to tell the truth and she'll be grand!

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Hi Guys

 

Thanks again for all comments

 

My daughter did speak to her Union rep again about going alone he said there is more chance of him being able to make a diciplinary hearing as the meeting is on Monday he can't make it anyway

 

He has assured her she will be fine he has told her to discuss practically nothing but her statement as it is investigation that is all they should be discussing

 

She feels confident she is determined to clear this up so I have faith in her her Union rep has also told her if she feels the meeting is going into something else she should stop the meeting and ring him

 

So my thoughts are will they just discuss her statement? Will they talk about the whole day? The reason I ask is because this child's mother said and did some very iffy things about and to her child during that day

 

Also what will happen with regards to my daughter hopefully going back? Can she ask to not work in that room the 1 day this child attends? Can she ask to not work with his mother? Can she ask anything like that?

 

She said she wouldn't he happy if they moved her to another room full time because she has done nothing wrong and if she ends up moving it will look like guilt so she wouldn't be happy with that her plan is to go back clear her name hopefully avoid a diciplinary and get another job but her contract says she has to do 4 weeks notice so even if she had a job offer now she would have to go back for 4 weeks

 

Thanks again for all your thoughts guys it really does help

 

Thanks

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please try not to get ahead of yourself with "what ifs". She wants to move rooms, but only when it suits her, and wants to dictate when she works what rooms? Best done once she knows what she is dealing with, not now.

 

They can ask anything they like in an investigation, and they don't have to say what they are investigating. So yes, they can ask about all day, and other days.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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There is no right to be accompanied during an investigation meeting which is probably why the rep is not going.

 

She just has to tell the truth and she'll be grand!

 

I disagree about there being (no right,) we have the right to be represented at every stage of investigation, people seem to miss that point; ( had this discussion with managers before when I have been asked to go into a "bog standard meeting" ) irrespective of any opposition the company may have. I have had members go into what they felt was a "bog standard meeting" which is an investigatory meeting no matter what they call it and said something that was twisted later at discipline. Yet I understand that companies have a policy to discourage representation at initial meetings. I think the rep is the one who is best placed to advice on at when to call in the rep based on knowledge of past practice by the company.

 

That's just my view though.

 

Hope her meeting goes smoothly btw Meg&Mog.

 

Bill

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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I disagree about there being (no right,) we have the right to be represented at every stage of investigation, people seem to miss that point;

 

This is the source of my facts Bill; what is your source?

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4227

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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I disagree about there being (no right,) we have the right to be represented at every stage of investigation, people seem to miss that point; ( had this discussion with managers before when I have been asked to go into a "bog standard meeting" ) irrespective of any opposition the company may have. I have had members go into what they felt was a "bog standard meeting" which is an investigatory meeting no matter what they call it and said something that was twisted later at discipline. Yet I understand that companies have a policy to discourage representation at initial meetings. I think the rep is the one who is best placed to advice on at when to call in the rep based on knowledge of past practice by the company.

 

That's just my view though.

 

Hope her meeting goes smoothly btw Meg&Mog.

 

Bill

 

I think Emmzzi meant there is no statutory right to be accompanied at an investigatory hearing, which is perfectly true. The only right would be a contractual one.

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  1. That I accept and concede I just feel that many members are confused when they are told there is no right, that in my eyes tells people that they are of no value. We all have rights as living sentient beings its the chains placed on us that trick us into thinking we are less :-):-)

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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And to answer your post Emmzzi

 

Experience and the fact that our union literature states that a member can be supported at ANY stage.

 

Mind you I don't see the issue If the member does not feel they need support at every stage then that's good. Just stating that they have the right should they wish. :-)

 

Bill

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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And to answer your post Emmzzi

 

Experience and the fact that our union literature states that a member can be supported at ANY stage.

 

Mind you I don't see the issue If the member does not feel they need support at every stage then that's good. Just stating that they have the right should they wish. :-)

 

Bill

 

I am concerned that you are giving out incorrect information, which someone may choose to rely on, and dig themself into a deeper hole by taking an incorrect stand. That doesn't help anyone.

 

Support is not the same as accompany. And unless you are a union dealing with only one employer, who has contractual representation at investigation, I would suggest your literature or interpretation of it, is wrong.

 

I have no issue with a stance that it may be morally right to accompany - although I can also see the other side that it sometimes hinders getting to the truth. But please do not present that as a 100% accurate legal fact.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Emmzzi If it is wrong then I have already stated in my signature that it is just my view and based on experience.

 

You have stated people do not have any rights to be accompanied at an investigation? What if someone has a learning disability mental health issue language issue there are many areas where that statement would be challenged.

 

The literature states at any stage how we deal with that as a union is based on individual cases

 

Please show where I have presented anything as 100% legal fact?

 

Meg&Mog has actually stated that they have been back to the union who have said they would not be able to attend ( it reads that it it to short notice ) the fact that they have been back and asked the question is more important for peace of mind don't you think?

 

To be honest I don't need to put my advice in it doesn't appear that it is appreciated a simple PM outlining views would suffice rather than this.

 

I've tried my best to give advice based on my own individual and professional experience I have spent too long batting this back and forth and can't be bothered anymore so have decided to remove the forum from my browser and ask that if it can be the account be closed.

 

Hope all goes well Meg&Mog any hope others get any future issues sorted I'm going back to my own private life now and will leave the advice to people who know more.

 

Bye

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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