Cabot/Weightmans Claimform - Old Lloyds credit card***Claim Discontinued***

[Guest]

Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

They will claim it was posted on the same day as dated on letter.

 

If sent 2nd Class, service would be 20 June 2010.

 

but 20 june is a sunday (not a working day!) so, 'service' w/b 21 june!

Edited July 21, 2010 by Ford
typo

[Blondie40]

but 20 june is a sunday (not a working day!) so, 'service' w/b 21 june!

 

Sorry, my mistake, should have put: If sent 2nd Class, service would be 19 June 2010.

[Guest]

Sorry, my mistake, should have put: If sent 2nd Class, service would be 19 June 2010.

 

if posted 15 june, fourth working day thereafter is 21 june! (19 june was a saturday ie not technically a 'working' day re service)

[Blondie40]

You could argue 19 June was a Saturday and not a working day, but I know someone who tried this and the Judge told him "as I get mail delivered on a Saturday I'm sure you do".

[Guest]

You could argue 19 June was a Saturday and not a working day, but I know someone who tried this and the Judge told him "as I get mail delivered on a Saturday I'm sure you do".

 

see here for eg re 'service of docs by post' where 'working' days are said to be mon - fri.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2166205.html

[Blondie40]

Yes that what was used, envelope kept - 2nd class, even quoted Civil Procedure Rules Part 6.26

Method of Service

First class post (or other service which provides for delivery on the next business day).

Deemed date of service

The second day after it was posted, left with, delivered to or collected by the relevant service provider provided that day is a business day; or if not, the next business day after that day.

 

Made little difference, if the judge you get gets post on a Saturday so do you.

Even if delivered on the Saturday was still one day out.

Agreed with claimant's counsel that it was a de minimus issue.

[Guest]

Yes that what was used, envelope kept - 2nd class, even quoted Civil Procedure Rules Part 6.26

Method of Service

First class post (or other service which provides for delivery on the next business day).

Deemed date of service

The second day after it was posted, left with, delivered to or collected by the relevant service provider provided that day is a business day; or if not, the next business day after that day.

 

Made little difference, if the judge you get gets post on a Saturday so do you.

Even if delivered on the Saturday was still one day out.

Agreed with claimant's counsel that it was a de minimus issue.

 

it seems then, as others have experienced, that some cty ct J's have difficulty in applying the law! did they appeal?

btw, imo the so called 'deminimis' issue re dn's should, if at all, relate only to the arrears amount on the dn.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Ford
typo

[Craigbadger]

Right so the default is compliant, the agreements likely ok.

 

What rights do they have to keep adding interest?,

 

The SCM letter would indicate the agreements been terminated as they are asking for the full balance and state Lloyds have canceled the account. Surely they cant have their cake and eat it too, but s14 on here worries me a bit.

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/LLOYDS/lloydscca2b-1.jpg

[Guest]

craigbadger

 

what are you referring to re s14?

[Craigbadger]

"If the agreement is ended you are liable to repay immediately on demand the outstanding balance on the account, including interest and charges to the date of repayment."

 

To my eyes that says ive agreed they can add interest and charges until settled.

[Guest]

"If the agreement is ended you are liable to repay immediately on demand the outstanding balance on the account, including interest and charges to the date of repayment."

 

 

 

 

To my eyes that says ive agreed they can add interest and charges until settled.

 

oh ok, condition 14 'Termination' re the 'agreement'?

 

imo, once 'terminated' maybe the only interest that could be added would be the 'court interest' as you mentioned before (if they claim). so called 'charges' would also cease.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Ford
typo

[Craigbadger]

I did think that myself, just nice to get someone elses opinion.

 

And you would agree that the letter is termination?

[Guest]

I did think that myself, just nice to get someone elses opinion.

 

And you would agree that the letter is termination?

 

yes re scm letter and termination. that seems to be the consensus re a demand for the full balance. see for eg the link i posted above.

 

(in my case, the full amount requested by subsequent dcas is the same as that stated in the scm formal demand!)

[Craigbadger]

Just googled the postacode on the envelope and its only Lloyds tsb collections.

Jokers could at least get there own postcode

[Bazooka Boo]

SCM are the in-house Sol's for LTSB

[Craigbadger]

Hi all just after some advice.

I have a defaulted credit card with Lloyds for about £3100 of this balance I would say a significant amount is charges, maybe £800 + interest.

Last month I had a letter off SCM asking for the lot then today a letter off MHA asking for the £300 arrears, im confused to say the least.

 

SCM http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/scm.jpg

MHA http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/MHAletter26810-1.jpg

 

Anyway yesterday I finally received my £6500 ppi refund for old Lloyds loans and want to clear up a few of the enforceable debts which this Lloyds unfortunately is.

 

1. Can anyone make sense of why they are now asking for just the arrears despite asking for the full amount a month back?

 

2. Can I mention in my full and final offer about the charges and use this as a bargaining tool? Should I also mention my lack of assets, income and otherwise offer £5 a month?

 

3. How much should I offer?

 

Any advice on the above would be much appreciated.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

personally I would write and ask the OC if they have sold or assigned the debt.,then ask what they

would accept as F & F settlement,this gives you bargaining room.

[Craigbadger]

I have posted this up a few times and i'm still not happy with it. Now im no expert but by my eyes this would a microfiche.

 

I have done a SAR and a CCA and have received the same copy in both so would I be right in thinking there isnt a paper copy anymore?

Either that or they defaulted my SAR by not sending the original agreement.

 

It is a defaulted debt and I have got the dogs hassling me so what I want to know is

can I put the account into dispute on the grounds that the only so called agreement is on microfiche

and therefore no wet agreement exists?, also can they enforce with this?.

 

Heres the agreement, it does seem to be all there but I still think it was never on 1 page. Just a photocopy.

 

http://a.imageshack.us/img816/8185/lloydscca1s.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8054/lloydscca2.jpg

[harrassed senior]

I presume you have blanked out the name etc. but that it was all correct in the details?

 

I am still 'stuck' on the heading of Application Form, but I recently read on here that this can be acceptable in some circumstances, ie. when all the 'usual' CCA requirements are present.

 

I 'think' that this is debatable in that if they do not have a 'true' signature, as here, whose to say it is 'correct' and 'unaltered' prior to microfilching?.

 

I maybe being over influenced by TV programs here, but this was a recent thing on tv that the signature, not being 'real' could not be forensically tested.

[Craigbadger]

Interesting about the forensics.

 

Well i'm skint and they know it so I might just write and put it in dispute, see what they say.

And something that is very clear is that there is an imprint of a date stamp on the back which is in a different place. I guess without the orignal it would be all hearsay evidence.

[Halibutt]

Hi Craigbadger,

 

Firstly, well done for posting your images on a non-identifiable image host - I wish more people would do that instead of using their Photobucket accounts and similar!

 

As far as I know, a microfiche or photocopy is acceptable as a response to a CCA request. If the creditor wanted to take things to court though, they'd then need to produce the original, or give an incredibly good reason why they couldn't.

 

Although the form is headed "Application Form" there's a box, bottom right, that states "Consumer Credit Agreement". it says to sign if you agree to be bound by that act and therefore enter into a contract. I've had a similar experience. Therefore, I'd guess that the first page does comply.

 

However, they need to send you all of the documents requested in your CCA letter. That means a copy of the agreement, the T&Cs in force at the time of signing, the T&Cs in force at the time of your request, a copy of any default notice(s) and a breakdown of all payments to the account since it opened, plus any charges (admin or otherwise) that have been levied.

 

Until you have all of the above, I'd say you can maintain that the account is in dispute. It doesn't hurt to request a copy of the company's complaints/grievance procedures as well - even if you don't intend to lodge any kind of complaint yet they should still supply those documents and it will save you time in the future.

[Craigbadger]

Hi Hallibut, love the name btw

tbh they probably did send all of the above, it was march I think when I got the CCA.

 

I think the thing that clicked more is that they have only sent two microfiche copies 1 in CCA, 1 in SAR, no actual scanned copies. And as far as I know a SAR means everything so I would of expected a further microfiche copy and a scanned copy of the original a4 but by not sending it that tells me they have either lost or disposed. And the SAR was 14 inches high.

 

Lets see what happens anyway, ive not spoke to them in 3 months so may just write back informing them I consider the account in dispute. I could try and catch them out, see if they will admit they destroyed the original.

[Halibutt]

It might work. See what happens and best of luck to you.

 

In case you're wondering, there's nothing fishy about my butt

[Halibutt]

Oh, I meant to say that your "agreement" shows that you ticked the PPI box - you may be able to claim back on that if it's not outside the claimable timescale...

[Guest HeftyHippo]

I think

for court use, they should have the original, but, if they can show that their fiche copies are made according to a (British) standard, the court can accept it. The same also goes, I think for other copying methods.