Cabot/Weightmans Claimform - Old Lloyds credit card***Claim Discontinued***

[Undercover-Elsa]

Tell them the £150 offer will reduce weekly until their acceptance, in direct proportion to interest charges currently in use on their overdraft accounts

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO the only amount you legally need pay them is the arrears, as they have unlawfully rescinded the agreement, the DN is faulty, and as they have now terminated the agreement, accept their unlawful repudiation and pay them the arrears, ta very much...

[surprise]

What is the difference between what you were prepared to offer and how much they were claiming on their default notice, as BB says you need only offer the arrears if the default notice is definitely faulty.

[Craigbadger]

The arrears on the default were £79, on the termination £121.

 

I'm pretty much sure its short. Apparently this S service is a business wholesale service, royal mail say that the company would do all there own work then royal mail would deliver within 5 working days.

I'm going to contact Royal Mail Wholesale see what they say.

 

 

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.royalmailwholesale.com/dsa_docs/Advertising_Mail/User_Guide_Appendix_M_100406.pdf&sa=X&ei=XKRFTL-CG5y60gSZpZy_BA&ved=0CBoQzgQoATAA&usg=AFQjCNGaPAqGMh0TP-7QBGTJk7PCttZLdA

Edited July 20, 2010 by Craigbadger

[surprise]

Personally I don't think you have anything to loose now and I would tackle this from another angle.

 

Point out to them that the postal service they use does not allow the requisite 14 clear days notice as you didn't receive the default notice until xxx. Point out that this is unlawful recission and the fact that they have now confirmed that they have terminated the agreement with an amount of £xxx owing this is what you will pay. If they wish to take the matter to court for the remaining then they should do so.

 

Tell them that you will be settling the account on xxxx.

[Undercover-Elsa]

The repudiatory breach of agreement occurred when they terminated the agreement without a compliant Default Notice, and you have elected to accept their repudiation with the effect that the agreement no longer endures. Your only remaining obligation is therefore the genuine arrears due prior to termination.

 

Remember too that without a compliant DN they have no right of Court action.

However it's not a get out of jail free card...Convincing a Court that the DN is non compliant is another matter with some judges completely ignoring Statutes in favour of the banks.

But we have to keep educating the judges on this and appeal where necessary.

 

Elsa x

Edited July 20, 2010 by Undercover-Elsa
clarity

[Craigbadger]

Thanks again.

I'm going to just get written confirmation from Royal mail of what this actual delivery method is.

The thing that concerns me is if royal mail come back and say it is next day, in which case it must of took best part of a week to get through there systems then would they have to prove that they posted it on the date it was written.

I notice that the termination was also dated a week before received and a Lloyds S marked letter I received was received 5 days after the date on the letter.

The fact is I know I only had 10 days to remedy but thats just my word.

[middenmess]

IMO the only amount you legally need pay them is the arrears, as they have unlawfully rescinded the agreement, the DN is faulty, and as they have now terminated the agreement, accept their unlawful repudiation and pay them the arrears, ta very much...

 

Agree --if you start offering F & F's they will assume they have a mug ready to fleece.

 

The D/N is defective on more than one count IMO.

 

I notice that the termination was also dated a week before received and a Lloyds S marked letter I received was received 5 days after the date on the letter.

The fact is I know I only had 10 days to remedy but thats just my word.

 

No its not.

 

Dated 22nd June,posted second class deemed served on Monday 28th June.14 days from day following makes remedy by Monday 12th July.

 

17 days twaddle from 22nd June in their dreams would have been Friday 9th July.

 

If they had used RM 1st class it might* have been OK so that envelope is worth hundreds to you.

 

*As the D/N included charges that also makes it defective,IMO.

 

Claim back the unlawful charges +contractual interest and you will reduce the O/S balance considerably .That plus only now owing the arrears as at 13th July should give them a maths sum to consider.

[Undercover-Elsa]

It also states two figures leaving it for you to figure out the amount to pay. It should be a clear statement of the total amount needed to rectify.

[Craigbadger]

And that did confuse me.

 

There was a letter in with the default explaining that its whichever the higher but I imagine that means nothing as its not on the default itself, as you say it is not clear what the amount to pay is, is it the higher of the 2?, is it the sum of the 2?

 

For the record though, that is only 2 months arrears when they defaulted me and I have paid £40 since the default so by my maths that would even make the termination arrears incorrect.

 

Ah well i'll send a letter off accepting there termination and inform them i'll be making payment within 14 days of the £121.

[dx100uk]

so you're quids in

more charges to comeback that on the tern notice for arrears.

 

well done

 

knew you'ed get there

 

dx

[middenmess]

Ah well i'll send a letter off accepting there termination and inform them i'll be making payment within 14 days of the £121.

 

 

The £121 would have been incorrect on the D/N as you state that they have included unlawful charges in it.

 

I'd be inclined to accept the termination and request the charges +contractual/compound interest back--others might advise otherwise.

[dx100uk]

no thats the way

you should make a profit here

 

dx

[Craigbadger]

Sorry me again, postmans been busy this week.

Well it seems it wasnt Fredricksons chasing me for Lloyds as today ive received this from SCM solicitors. Presume these are Lloyds very own dirtbags looking at the envelope, font etc.

 

Is this a termination letter?, its not titled as such but it makes it clear they are demanding the full amount. It also says my card is canceled.

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/scm.jpg

 

Now can they add interest?, ive seen people say they cant.

But it does state in the original agreement under Termination:

 

"If this agreement is ended you are liable to repay immediately on demand the outstanding balance on the account, including interest and charges to the date of payment."

 

Surely though if the agreement is terminated they could only add 8% and even then only in court.

 

There are £600 charges with about £700 interest and £400 8% which I need to to double check then get on and reclaim + a shot in the dark ppi from the late 90s.

 

balance of about £3000 so in reality its a matter of I owe them £3000 and they owe me £1700.

 

I'm going to write back and tell them i'll pay £10 a month. Anyone advise anything else I should put in my letter?, i'm not disputing the debt and i'd like to keep the bank account

 

Is there a decent template for writing such a letter to a dca?

[Craigbadger]

Well heres my response from royal mail wholesale, enough for me that this wasnt first class.

 

Hello Badger

This would of been sent via an alternative postal supplier to Royal Mail. Royal Mail deliver the "last mile" and this would of been delivered with your Royal Mail post.

Regards

Sue

Royal Mail Wholesale

[Dotty50]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/253588-lloyds-tsb-dottys-oh.html#post3031665

 

Hi Craigbadger,

 

Got the same letter a couple of weeks ago but not done anything about it yet!

[Bazooka Boo]

Your correct in your assumption that Sechari, Clark & Mitchell are indeed the in-house Sol's for Lloyd's.

 

Normally a Termination Notice, will say exactly that on the letter, however IMO asking for the full balance of an account is the same, but I am open to persuasion?

 

Have you checked that the DN is compliant? Is it laid out in the correct format, correct dates to rectify, amount which is required to rectify etc?

 

How Old is this CC?

Pre or post 2007?

 

As for wanting to stay with the bank, this is not advisable at all, they will offset any debt you have with them using the money that is in your account, regardless whether you have an agreement with them or not.

 

Your much safer to open a different bank account, that is not a part of Lloyd's banking group, of which we own 43% of (cheers Gordon!) and have your wages paid into the new account so that Lloyd's can't take what they want.

 

If there are any charges on the account, then you should start to claim these back, this will then go to reducing the total debt, and will be much more manageable, hopefully?

 

As for offering them payment, it really is a simple letter telling them that you are prepared to pay them £10 a week/month via standing order.

 

They will refuse this and their greed will get the better of them, then there are a number of avenues you can go down, dependant on when this CC was taken out, you could CCA them, or another method is for every time they refuse to accept your offer of payment, reduce it by a pound, and it might cost them £5 before they get the message, but they will eventually.

 

Either way, if you are willing to pay them, what you genuinely owe, not the fees and charges, then ensure your offer, is one that is realistic and comfortable for you to maintain and pay, there is no legal requirement for them to have a copy of your income and expenditure, this is merely a delusion of grandeur on their part.

 

If you need help with sending them a request for your agreement to see if they can actually legally take payment from you then just ask.

 

Other than that, DO NOT talk to them over the Phone, EVER!

 

Keep everything in writing only, and send your correspondence via recorded delivery or at the very least obtain proof of postage, start to get a paper trail of evidence together and keep a diary of events, especially for the telephone harassment.

[Craigbadger]

Hi there.

Cheers Dotty, will have a propper scan of your thread.

 

It was from 1998 Bazooka

I have done a CCA request and it appears to be surprisingly ok, my only thing is whether the 2 were as 1 page or on 2 but i'll put the scans below. Notice the fact that the stamp on the 2 appears not to be in the same place but this might be nothing.

 

Default seems to me to be again ok. Again will post a scan.

 

The annoying thing is I have letters from Lloyds admitting the missale of 4 ppi policies from 2002-2005 on closed loan accounts. Value of the ppi is about £3k + a further £3k in interest, but they are really dragging there heals with the refund and I half expect them to offset some of this anyway but we'll see.

 

They'd be wasting there time taking me to court, i'm back living with my mum, self employed and have barely broke even the last 3 years and have no savings.

 

As for keeping the account, I was thinking long term when ive cleared all debts with them. Just nice to keep a spare.

 

Anyway the scans:

 

CCA 1 http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/LLOYDS/lloydscca2a-1-1.jpg

CCA 2 http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/LLOYDS/lloydscca2b-1.jpg

Default 1 http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/lloydsdfn001-1.jpg

Default 2 http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/lloydsdfn002.jpg

[Bazooka Boo]

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/lloydsdfn001-1.jpg

 

Is faulty as it fails to allow you sufficient time in which to rectify the account, 14 days are required, but by my calculations this doesn't even come close..10 possibly?

Any one else confirm?

 

I would also question the agreement they sent you.

Clearly it states that it is an application form, but there is nothing which ties the first page to the second page of T&C's....it even says at the top left hand side of the second page that it is the 'Bank Copy'????

 

Before you get your hopes up though wait until someone else like cerberusalert can have a gander and give their opinion first.

 

But IMO it's not enforceable......but I'm stubborn like that:D

[Craigbadger]

Hahaha

 

Default was sent first class though, if that changes anything, and they sent the same copies of the agreement in both cca and sar(all be it different size scans).

 

Lloyds are just such tossers, why cant they be more cr@p like Capital 1 and mess everything up?

[fuzzybobble]

The Law is very clear on DN dates.

 

The DN should have a date on which it should be remidied, not x days from the date on the letter....

 

3

 

A specification of:--

 

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

 

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

 

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date

 

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

 

As you can see, it states a "Date"

 

Also if you get a Judge that likes to play golf with bankers on his day off and ignores your evidence then say this to him....

 

"If you are minded to rule in favour of the claimant on this point- Then I would be obliged if you would make full notes of your reasoning for appeal purposes."

[Guest]

re dn - imo, if posted 1st class on 15 june then they have given enough time.

[Blondie40]

re dn - imo, if posted 1st class on 15 june then they have given enough time.

 

Even if sent 2nd class, they have still allowed 14 clear days.

[Guest]

Even if sent 2nd class, they have still allowed 14 clear days.

 

imo, if 2nd class - deemed served 4 working days after posting ie 21 june. clear days start next day, so last clear day w/b 5 july. so, if 2nd class the date on the dn would need to be 6 july as the statutory statement states 'before the date shown' (which is 5 july). so, could be 1 day short if 2nd. what do you think?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Ford
typo addition

[Blondie40]

imo, if 2nd class - deemed served 4 days after posting ie 21 june. clear days start next day, so last clear day w/b 5 july. so, if 2nd class the date on the dn would need to be 6 july as the statutory statement states 'before the date shown' (which is 5 july). so, could be 1 day short if 2nd. what do you think?

 

Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

They will claim it was posted on the same day as dated on letter.

 

If sent 2nd Class, service would be 20 June 2010.