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:From contributions based to income related employment n support:

 

The first link in the previous post is very relevant to a claimant who's made a telephone claim via 08000 556688, or completed a paper ESA1 form to claim the contributions based and income related elements. Assuming no change of circumstances (which usually requires an ESA3 form anyway) any entitlement to an income related award should be paid automatically when a contributions based award runs out.

 

The scenario's different for claimants who've conversion awards of employment n support (from incapacity benefit) that are based entirely on national insurance contributions. Usually, Jobcentreplus simply don't know whether there's any entitlement to an income related award, hence the need to complete an ESA3.

 

As for that linked ESA3? Unhelpfully Work n Pensions disabled the print function. :evil: A rather more helpful contributor to CAG shared the downloadable and printable copy linked to in #5.

 

Margaret.

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Why is your friend tangled up with Ingeus? :???: They're voluntary for claimants with wholly contributions based awards. Although it'll become mandatory when she transfers to an income related award if her recommended period before reassessment is less than eighteen months.

 

Hope you're feeling better soon. Not easy for anyone coping with the complexities of employment n support. Best wishes, Margaret.

 

 

Thank you Margaret, feeling a little better but still stressed out, I am glad you've put me in the picture more about Cathy's ESA Contributions based, I agree about her being sent to Ingeus by the DWP, I was very surprised myself, I didn't think Cathy would have anything to do with Ingeus as yet! I accompanied her to the DWP's office building but did not go in with her for the appointment and the DWP advisor managed to tricked her about going back to work and sent her off to Ingeus and also was told she must attend the work programme with Ingeus otherwise her money will stop!

 

When I attended the first Ingeus appointment with Cathy, the adviser was quite aggressive and abrupt didn't phases me at all, I've read enough about their bad behaviours, I did all the talking for her, she was given a letter at the end, I guess it's there standard letter but it says it is Mandatory that she attend the WP otherwise her money will stop, she was also given a CV to fill in even though the Ingeus Advisor agreed and said she is no way ready to partake anything, or do any voluntary work but still mumbled something near the end of the appointment about filling in the CV and bring it next appointment!

 

Cathy was supposed to see another person Ingeus's own Mental Health Professional last Friday 2nd of August I sent the health professional at Ingeus an email beforehand asking a few questions with the help of Mr. P. from here, the Health Advisor rang me on Monday of that week cancelling the appointment and said that she was leaving Ingeus and Cathy will see the new Mental Health Professional! I am fully aware and prepared with Ingeus now knowing for sure about the voluntary work programme, Cathy is now worst with her mental illness which I told Ingeus already and yet they still say she must come to her appointments! I will deal with the matter when the new appointment letter come!

 

Thanking you

 

Best wishes

 

 

helen

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Thank you so much for those links and the ESA 3 Form, goodness so long I shall download the pdf and go through them as soon as I can sound like the six weeks before hand won't be enough time better start earlier!

 

we appreciate your help!

 

 

Best wishes

 

 

helen

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Posted in another thread, but quoting it here helps to keep things in the same thread:

Cathy was supposed to see another person Ingeus's own Mental Health Professional last Friday 2nd of August

 

Alarm bells ring at the mention of a "Mental Health Professional" - ESA claimants can not be mandated to undertake medical treatment. Any "advice" from a qualified MHP could constitute "treatment".

 

If you get confronted with one of these so-called "Professionals" ask (and insist on answers):

 

  • What qualifications do you have ?
  • Are you registered with a recognised regulatory body ?
  • Has a referral been made by Cathy's MH consultant to see you ?

Negative answers to any of the above would be grounds to refuse to answer any/all questions related to health and general well being.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Have you (or Cathy) quoted the Equalities Act? In the sense that a private room is a reasonable adjustment.

 

Sorry I missed your thread, No we haven't done so, Cathy had only one Ingeus appointment so far and a private room was available which I asked for but the advisor said at the end of that appointment under mumbled breath there won't be a private room next time, he was quite abrupt surprisingly after he admitted cathy was not well do do anything at the moment and that is a long way away, we felt he was trying to get her trust and then drop any bombshell he may have! I am on guard with them just in case they try anything!

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One has to ask why your friend is even on the work programme in the first place? :???:

 

I went to ingeus yesterday and pleased to say i dont have to go for another 6 weeks :whoo:

 

I have a new advisor and so far he seems human, not like the usual idiots i see there....

 

Cathy got on the work programme because she was tricked by the dwp advisor she saw, unfortunately she forgot everything I told her to say, her short term memory is poor, I accompanied her to the appointment but did not go in with her, I think the dwp advisor wants her off her case, she asked cathy about working in the future when she said yes that was it, she was send to Ingeus, within the next day she got a phone call from Ingeus for an appointment with them!

 

To be honest with you I don't trust any of those lot the dwp and Ingeus they can be as nice as they want but I will never trust them they are doing their job for one reason only to get vulnerable people to loose their benefits, that's how I see them!

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Posted in another thread, but quoting it here helps to keep things in the same thread:

 

 

Alarm bells ring at the mention of a "Mental Health Professional" - ESA claimants can not be mandated to undertake medical treatment. Any "advice" from a qualified MHP could constitute "treatment".

 

If you get confronted with one of these so-called "Professionals" ask (and insist on answers):

 

 

  • What qualifications do you have ?
  • Are you registered with a recognised regulatory body ?
  • Has a referral been made by Cathy's MH consultant to see you ?

 

Negative answers to any of the above would be grounds to refuse to answer any/all questions related to health and general well being.

 

Thank you Paul for your advices, trust me I've already had that in mind, Cathy went through all that with her local authority, they had their so call mental health professional going through her application that lady said cathy was not in priority need, 'you need to be in priority need to get a council flat',

 

I've checked that so call doctor and found out she was actually a family planning part-time nurse, and work under another doctor of that local authority, he has been to court many times for wrongly giving false statement on people applications, he too has no document to show that he has practice under mental health, when I confronted that local authority about the lady who made the decisions on cathy's case they then gave me a name of another new doctor, I've checked him too LOL, he don't even exist, I rang the General Medical Council and another place where all doctors study they too did not have anything on that new doctor, how shocking that's what is happening and people don't know what's going on!

 

So please everyone just a little advice do not trust any of those people, the dwp, Ingeus and the like or even the local authorities until you've done some homework!

 

 

:evil:

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Amen to that, sister. My motto now when dealing with DWP, JC, Work Provider, etc is 'Get Thy Own Boot In First'

 

..will have to get it transcribed into Latin and put on my coat of arms - while I was at A4e they actually did get us to design a coat of arms. Apparently it was a 'valuable team-building exercise' and not, as we all thought, just something to fill in the time :)

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Cathy got on the work programme because she was tricked by the dwp advisor she saw, unfortunately she forgot everything I told her to say, her short term memory is poor, I accompanied her to the appointment but did not go in with her, I think the dwp advisor wants her off her case, she asked cathy about working in the future when she said yes that was it, she was send to Ingeus, within the next day she got a phone call from Ingeus for an appointment with them!

 

To be honest with you I don't trust any of those lot the dwp and Ingeus they can be as nice as they want but I will never trust them they are doing their job for one reason only to get vulnerable people to loose their benefits, that's how I see them!

 

 

I didn't think you had a choice whether you went on the work programme or not? well i certainly wouldn't of chosen it thats for sure.

Ingeus and Job Centre tend to walk all over people like your friend, you have to stick up for yourself and certainly have your wits about you while dealing with both.

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I didn't think you had a choice whether you went on the work programme or not? well i certainly wouldn't of chosen it thats for sure.

Ingeus and Job Centre tend to walk all over people like your friend, you have to stick up for yourself and certainly have your wits about you while dealing with both.

 

For ESA claimants that are in Support Group, or WRAG with a prognosis of 12+ months the WP is voluntary.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Helen, it really sounds like you need support with your friend. You can contact your local social services, adult department and they will come out and see you both and help you as her carer. They can also act on your behalf to take some of the pressures off you. It really is worth contacting them.

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I have read with disgust the report of the nurse acting as a mental health advisor. If anyone again as the the same experience they should report to the Midwifery & Nursing Council. Nurses must follow both the guidelines and code of practice set out by that body. This Nurse had no right to act as a Mental Health Advisor her Actions are a serious breach of professional conduct and would be dealt with by the council as such.

 

The following is the telephone number of the Fitness to Practice department 020 7462 5800 / 5801 please call . This Nurse should not be around vulnerable people.

 

I will ring the council on Monday this is breaks so many Guidelines I don,t know how they get away with this gross misconduct.

Edited by badbessie
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I have a friend on ESA and WP wasn't voluntary to her, why the hell would anyone volunteer to go on wp?

 

Because some are conned into volunteering, others believe the bullsh1t about tailored help. They feel ready to maybe return to some kind of employment and think these Muppet's will help.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Thanks everybody for all your recent advice and support, sorry I haven't been able to come and have a visit, I have been very busy and having a really stressful time with Cathy, I am afraid she is going through a mini breakdown with what she is already suffering with, she is so paranoid and feeling confused with regards to Ingeus, the dwp, people outside, she is not sleeping, eating, even started to look scruffy, we are in touch with the doctor but still waiting for her hospital psychiatric visit which could take months, she is starting and getting hooked on painkillers, which making her worse because that particular table can affect people thinking and hallucination!

 

I am seeking help and advice from here on the count that if anyone whilst on the work programme has become worst with their illness and what step did they take? Cathy cannot go on anymore work programme, I will tell the new Ingeus Advisor and will see what she says, she is too sick at the moment, all those work programme thing has thrown her right off course, the fact that the medical she had before her recent one, they told me that she will be on Incapacity indefinite because of her mental health only to a year later moving her from IB to ESA then put her on the WRAG and shoving a CV in her face for her to fill in I think it's extremely out of order, I don't think those people have a clue about mental illness at all!

 

Any help and advice I can get about circumstances changed being worse off with ill health whilst being on the work programme would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

helen :(

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Helen, it really sounds like you need support with your friend. You can contact your local social services, adult department and they will come out and see you both and help you as her carer. They can also act on your behalf to take some of the pressures off you. It really is worth contacting them.

 

 

Thank you I did ring them before but because Cathy is homeless they couldn't do anything about it, I shall give them another call and see what happens, it is becoming a bit too much for me, I am on ill health myself and trying to sort myself out to get back to work next year but with Cathy's problem she is putting a halt on everything!

 

I did tell the Ingeus advisor that things are getting worse with cathy and that it is starting to affect my life too but she just went quiet that advisor is leaving Ingeus , she told me she will no longer work for them, ummm! I wonder why? Anyway we'll wait for the new one and see what happens, I am ready for her if she tries anything!

 

Being exhausted and under much stress I guess give one a chance not to put up with Ingeus crap talking, I am certainly not in the mood for them and Cathy has literally just shuts down, she already told me she will lash out at them if they say anything to her and she will do it too, she's already lashed out at the hospital psychiatrist and a social worker, I've told that to Ingeus too, don't push her to the limit!

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Because some are conned into volunteering, others believe the bullsh1t about tailored help. They feel ready to maybe return to some kind of employment and think these Muppet's will help.

 

I agree totally with you, but for me I absolutely do not believe anything they say especially when they are trying to be nice that's worse still, they been trained to behave that way so they can move people gently on Job Seekers that's their aim! Unfortunately Cathy trusted her advisor's smiles though I've told her before she disappeared being closed door not to trust her advisor if she started mentioning about going back to work!

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I have read with disgust the report of the nurse acting as a mental health advisor. If anyone again as the the same experience they should report to the Midwifery & Nursing Council. Nurses must follow both the guidelines and code of practice set out by that body. This Nurse had no right to act as a Mental Health Advisor her Actions are a serious breach of professional conduct and would be dealt with by the council as such.

 

The following is the telephone number of the Fitness to Practice department 020 7462 5800 / 5801 please call . This Nurse should not be around vulnerable people.

 

I will ring the council on Monday this is breaks so many Guidelines I don,t know how they get away with this gross misconduct.

 

Thank you so much for this valuable advices, I have saved all replies from here to Cathy's file so I can go through them when I need to! I shall wait for the new Ingeus adviser and see what's she is all about, I've been told she is their mental health professional, trust me I didn't believe it then when at the first appointment cathy's advisor told us about their experienced mental health professional, lots of bells were ringing in my head, we've had experienced before with those health professional bodies, dwp or local authorities' unbelievable, one doctor didn't even exist! :O

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I agree totally with you, but for me I absolutely do not believe anything they say especially when they are trying to be nice that's worse still, they been trained to behave that way so they can move people gently on Job Seekers that's their aim! Unfortunately Cathy trusted her advisor's smiles though I've told her before she disappeared being closed door not to trust her advisor if she started mentioning about going back to work!

 

Your experiences with trying to help your friend illustrate better than anything just why these idiots should not be dealing with ESA claimants, especially those with mental health issues.

 

Sooner or later someone will be tipped over the edge and an advisor will get seriously hurt. The obligation of duty of care for claimants and provider staff needs addressing urgently.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Your experiences with trying to help your friend illustrate better than anything just why these idiots should not be dealing with ESA claimants, especially those with mental health issues.

 

Sooner or later someone will be tipped over the edge and an advisor will get seriously hurt. The obligation of duty of care for claimants and provider staff needs addressing urgently.

 

Well Cathy has already warned me seriously that if they say anything to her she will lash out, that first adviser made her feel useless, worthless, not human, by saying to her there are people worse off than you and are working, LOL, I would like to meet them, those seriously mental sick people holding down a job, Cathy's memory is so poor I have to constantly repeat everything to her, she never ever remember her bank card

number and everything elses for that matter, she's burned food twice under the grill, I now have stopped her from using my cooker at all or being near fire, her mother is already suffering with advanced dementia, I just pray she does not get as sick!

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The obligation of duty of care for claimants and provider staff needs addressing urgently.

 

Unfortunately, this is most likely to consist of employing some overweight meatloaf under the pretext of "security". I had this with A4e and refused to enter in to any conversation until the afore mentioned meatloaf was removed from the premises as I had not consented to his presence.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

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Helen: If you can get hold of the Third Party contracts manager at your local JCP/DWP office, it might help to have an informal chat with him/her.

 

Tell him of your concerns that Cathy was coerced in to signing up for the WP and that she is/was in no position to give "informed consent" due to mental health issues. Point out that the "personalised and tailored" support provided to date by Ingeus has pushed her further away from the job market and see if the DWP will reconsider her placement.

 

Would also be worth getting your local MP involved as he/she will have access to the head of the DWP.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

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Helen2264, Normally the Mental health care Team as a emergency response team which could speed up care for Cathy. It really sounds like she needs help urgently. Social Services are o.k but reading through the last few posts I feel that Cathy may be at risk. I am not an expert but I have had and still suffer from anxiety and Cathy is showing many of the symptoms I showed before I was admitted to hospital.

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Helen - have you (or anyone working on Cathy's behalf) told DWP that there's been a change in her condition? It sounds to me as though Cathy should be in the support group. From what you say on here, she's in no fit state to attend the work programme.

 

And well done for the help you're giving Cathy. :)

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