Problems with Barclays first plus secured loan with an old court case too

[kitschyk]

hi

 

i have been burying my head in the sand over this court case

and someone pointed me in the direction of this forum.

 

Some time ago my husband and myself took out a loan for £35k with first plus,

we shouldnt have done it as we were in debt already and saw part of it as a way out then

by "consolidating" our payments,

not realising that by taking this over a 15 year period at 10% APR it would be a huge amount to pay off.

 

 

At some point last year the account went into arrears

- i had a period of unemployment,

then got a job away from home

then split with my husband,

my dad got dementia during this period

and we had to place him in a home,

not surprisingly the money things were far from my mind.

 

 

First plus told me that they had handed the account to red castle at some point last year,

i am not sure i got a letter about this, i think it was a phone call,

red castle rang periodically for payments, then stopped doing this.

 

 

In December my husband died,

I sent a death certificate to both red castle and first plus.

 

 

i rang red castle to find out what was happening,

they said they didnt have my account,

i rang first plus who said they didnt either,

 

 

i told red castle this and they said i should pay them something anyway but i refused

i said i wasnt going to do this without them sorting out who had my account.

they said they would ring me back and sort things out but never did.

 

 

i am afraid i then pushed it out of my mind, until first plus rang saying i had amassed arrears of around £2500.

 

i said i would pay them £200 per month towards the arrears,

they said they wouldnt accept this without an income and expenditure sheet.

i said i did not wish to give them this as i didnt trust them with information what with losing my account details before.

they then said they would take me to court.

 

 

i emailed them a letter saying i thought they were being unreasonable not accepting my payment offer.

then i received in working hours a visit from a fieldcall representative

who asked my friend who was staying at mine at the time

if he could speak to me and my husband

- my friend told him that my husband was dead,

he expressed surprise at this and said he hadnt been told this.

 

 

i rang the fieldcall rep later who said he had been appointed by firstplus to give me debt counselling advice

and that he could often get customers a low repayment rate of arrears

and his job was to ensure i could afford to pay the arrears repayments.

i asked how much these services cost - he said he didnt get involved with that side of things

- i said i was already in debt and didnt want his services adding to an extortionate loan interest rate

- he rang me another time and was quite hostile in his manner saying i should see him.

 

 

i then emailed first plus and said i was being harassed by this rep and they told him not to contact me again

- i again repeated my offer of £200 per month for the arrears, they said they would accept this but still take me to court.

 

i am in county court tomorrow facing a possession order -

 

 

i am wondering the following:

 

1. should i just ask them to produce the original agreement before we even proceed with this case?

 

2. does first plus even exist as a company anymore as

i thought i read somewhere it went into receivership

and i dont believe i had any written notification of that

or of when my account has been passed to a third party.

 

3. the interest on my arrears are £9.27 PER DAY

so i will never pay off the arrears as each day presumably these will increase.

is this reasonable?

thanks

[kitschyk]

At a stupid point in my life 1st husband and I borrowed a secured loan of 35k from firstplus

over 15 years in 2005 (Don't judge please as I know I am an idiot )

 

He died so whole repayment amount £655 per month now falls to me.

 

upshot is that at the end of it I will have paid them back nearly 118k!!!

 

I asked for a settlement figure which currently stands at 19k.

 

The Loan defaulted early 2010 around the period of my husbands death

and the default remains on my credit record

which along with some other stuff at the time means my credit history is shot.

 

I thought there was a charge against my property also but there doesn't seem to be.

 

We also started an iva shortly after as borrowing the money didn't get us out of our debts at the time

and in fact made things worse (silly things that you do when you are desperate).

 

I honestly think that the worry of it contributed to my husbands subsequent heart attack.

 

Looking online lots of people appear to have challenged firstplus for unfair and unclear contract terms

but no one seems to have won due to everything being in the small print.

 

Has anyone else had dealings with them?

 

 

They are now taken over by Barclays I think ?

 

I want rid of this ridiculous loan - with still five years to go I will be paying them nearly forty grand over that period.

 

Logic would determine getting a better rate loan to clear the settlement but no one will lend except other companies with extortionate rates.

 

Also I don't trust them.

They have never sent a statement ,

I asked them exactly how long it would take to pay the loan off

and if that would be the end of it in five years and they said they couldn't say.

 

Apparently I am repaying the capital only at the moment

and when that finishes I will be paying the interest part off "to make it easier" (?)

 

I wasn't ever told this.

They also sent the settlement figure addressed to my dead husband which I queried

and they apologised and are sending a "goodwill gesture" of £50 for the upset. ( they can afford it)

 

I am going to ring Cab but wondered if anyone else had successfully challenged this sort of thing

or even if can as I have obviously been a fool ?

Thanks

[citizenB]

I think there are other threads on here in respect of First Plus and yes, they are a dreadful company.

 

You are entitled to statements at least once a year and if there are arrears, then they are obliged to send you Notice of Arrears notices, again, at least once a year.

 

It might be in your interests to send a Subject Access Request - this will provide you with statements, communication/activity log , and any other data that has accumulated over the period you have been with them. It will cost you £10.00 The link below contains a draft SAR request. Send it to their Head/Registered office by tracked mail.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387306-Full-Subject-Access-Request

 

They have 40 calendar days in which to respond.

 

The activity log should identify whether they have been sending the statutory notices.

 

Do you know if there was any Payment Protection Insurance added to this loan ? If so, you need to look at that, whether it would / should have paid out in the event of your husbands death.

 

I am sure others will also be along to offer advice during the day.

[dx100uk]

have you got the agreement

if you have no statements

 

 

send them an SAR.

 

 

yes this smells.

 

 

have you PPI?

or any other stupid insurance they made you take out

or any PENALTY Fees, I bet you have!

 

 

ALL these can be reclaimed at their interest rate !!

 

 

this IVA.

was the debt part of this?

did you vomplete the IVA?

who was it with?

 

 

theres lots we can do but you/us need information.

 

 

dx

[kitschyk]

have you got the agreement

if you have no statements

 

send them an SAR.

 

yes this smells.

 

have you PPI?

or any other stupid insurance they made you take out

or any PENALTY Fees, I bet you have!

 

ALL these can be reclaimed at their interest rate !!

 

this IVA.

was the debt part of this?

did you vomplete the IVA?

who was it with?

 

theres lots we can do but you/us need information

 

dx

 

Hi

The iva was taken out when my husband was alive in joint names

- it had less than a year to run when he died so the remainder was written off and it is satisfied and removed from my records.

 

The firstplus loan was not included as i was told that secured loans could not be part of the iva.

I am looking for the paperwork but will also send a SAR to firstplus.

 

It took ages following his death to find out where my loan was and what was happening with it

and even who to pay (I think firstplus was moving to Barclays at the time).

I am not sure they have all my paperwork which may be a bonus.

 

When I rang them yesterday they said I was paying a direct debit of 403 per month from my husbands estate

( I said that I am actually paying from my account a direct debit of £655 per month and have been since the court case in 2010.

 

They then said "oh yes" in a rather unconvincing way...

 

I thought I had a ccj against me but I see on my equifax and experian files that I do not.

 

I am also trying to restore my credit rating in an attempt to get enough to offer a full and final settlement to firstplus from a more reasonable loan

 

My experian file says I am fair and my equifax score says I am very poor. Which doesn't make sense to me?

 

My experian file doesn't include the payments on my mortgage anymore

since I told them I wanted the financial association to my late husband removed

from the file the other week which they did.

 

It also doesn't include the firstplus loan

 

My equifax file doesn't include the payments on the firstplus loan only a big red mark that says defaulted from 2010.

Although the decreasing balance shows in the summary (first plus say that they don't update the payment parts

once it has defaulted only the decreasing balance?

 

 

This obviously leaves a black (red) mark against my credit even though I have paid every instalment to date.

 

Tmobile have closed the account that I forgot I had with them

and was paying but had fallen into arrears with at one point

as I have settled that in full but instead of saying "settled"

the payments say that it is a dormant file

so I guess that this doesn't help either ?

 

For the first plus loan I would like to offer a full and final payment citing their incompetence ,

the fact that it has caused considerable distress at a highly distressing point in my life

and that the loan has been mismanaged and potentially missold?

 

And also that the amount is putting me into financial difficulty

- I am also now in arrears with the Nram mortgage

I have so if the house goes Nram would have first call on it anyway

 

But I don't know what might be reasonable as a F & F

(they have quoted £19k as their settlement)

or where I could even get that sort of money from now?

[slick132]

Hi Kitschyk,

 

If you don't have all the a/c date, get it with a SAR.

 

As well as looking for PPI on the loan, you should also look for all late fees or admin fees added to the a/c as these should be reclaimed. They are unlawful penalties.

 

[dx100uk]

its not wise to go paying off debts by F&F

it doesn't improve your credit rating

and to be honest

I think it foolhardy to get more credit

even if its at a lower rate

to pay off old credit.

 

 

you CRA file will not improve even if you pay debts off

the default is there for 6yrs paid or not.

 

 

then the whole account goes.

 

 

from now on everything in writing only

no more phone calls

 

 

IMHO you are being fleeced here

and something is not sitting right

 

 

get that SAR off.

 

 

Barclays are 1st plus so they'll hold everything.

 

 

you nram mortgage

 

 

is that going ok?

 

 

we've seen numerous threads here where they've spoofed people blind

esp with fake arrears fees and all manner of insurance you don't need or require

 

 

dx

[kitschyk]

Thanks.

 

 

When you say the account is written off after six years - what do you mean please?

 

 

The whole account is written off and I won't owe anything in another year? The default was in 2010.

 

I am getting behind with the Nram mortgage as I get paid weekly and things like Christmas and new year holidays

mean no pay for me (I work for an umbrella company on different contracts ).

 

 

Therefore it doesn't take much to get behind and once that happens it is hard to Catch up with myself again.

[dx100uk]

didn't say it gets written off.......

 

 

I said paid or not the default is there for 6yrs

then the whole account vanishes

 

 

........

 

 

All references to a defaulted debt must be removed from your credit files after 6 years

has passed from date of default, whether paid off or not.

.

{the WHOLE ACCOUNT WILL VANISH, never to return}.

.

{however, this does not mean the debt itself is not still owed

consider a CCA request.}

.

This is so that someone who continues paying something

- even after 6 years from default

- should not be at a disadvantage to someone who pays nothing after default

and ends up with a clean file after 6 years.

 

 

...........

 

 

your mortgage MUST come first

 

 

any other debts get dropped to p'haps £1PCM or less regardless

roof over head comes first!

 

 

get that sar off.

 

 

a second charge [you say it doesn't show?]

they cant easily evict/repo, mortgage has first dibs.

 

 

dx

[kitschyk]

Sorry I didn't properly read your response. Too busy getting my SAR written!

 

I understood that if I defaulted on the secured loan with first plus

that they could then put a charge on my property

but that the mortgage company would have priority if I lost the place anyway.

Leaving firstplus with nothing probably.

 

 

When I went to court to try and explain the extortionate practices and interest to the magistrate

he was not interested at all and just wanted me to agree to paying something off.

 

The SAR should put me in a better position to know what firstplus actually do have on me in terms of any agreements.

 

Thanks again. The advice is helping my emotional state

[dx100uk]

magistrates court?

 

 

county court surely.?

 

 

sorry I missed that bit.

 

 

yes al the judge might want is to secure some payment toward why its in front of him.

 

 

so what happened there trhen?

 

 

cant see any info upon why you ere taken to court.

 

 

would be helpful to tell us that story.

 

 

sri to drag it up if you have somewhere

[dx100uk]

I've found the post and merged it here

sad you were missed?

 

 

let me go format it so it can be read properly

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

ok that's in post 1 now.

 

 

so what happened at court then please.

 

 

I bet you've arrears fees every month

and other charges

 

 

did you ever get a copy of the agreement?

[kitschyk]

ok that's in post 1 now.

 

so what happened at court then please.

 

I bet you've arrears fees every month

and other charges

 

did you ever get a copy of the agreement?

 

I have found a copy of the original agreement.

There was no Ppi applied.

The terms and conditions state that they can apply interest at their discretion a

s long as it does not exceed more than double the finance house base rate in any one year.

 

At court I tried to explain to the judge?

Magistrate whoever (it was county court) that they had been completely unreasonable.

 

 

He waved me aside and said that he wasn't interested and would I agree to pay them money towards the arrears or not?

 

 

I agreed to pay 200 a month.

 

 

I am absolutely certain thAt this is now paid since I have been paying an extra 255 per month for FIVE years on 2500 of arrears!

 

 

I don't think they have registered this as they said I was paying 403 a month when I rang them !

 

 

Surely I have overpaid which should count for something ?

 

I am writing the sar and asking for statements to clarify the interest per Annum applied And the amounts I have paid.

[dx100uk]

something is dreadfully wrong here somewhere

 

 

that's +£11k on its own

 

 

those statements will be very revealing bet it 90% charges now.

 

 

can you scan up the agreement you have found please?

 

 

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[dx100uk]

ok I can see this is creating problems

 

 

we need to see full pages and be able to read

including the T&C's.

 

 

have you a friend/neighbour with a scanner that you can scan everything?

[kitschyk]

I'm not at "home" -

I work 135 miles away from my mortgaged house where my two grown up children are now living.

 

 

I have remarried and am living in a rented place with my husband.

 

 

All my paperwork is in the house and my son is having to find it all and try to photograph it!

 

The agreement is six sides so he can't photograph it all.

 

I can ask him to send it on but if it is lost in the post it may be the only chance I have of finding out what the terms were.

[kitschyk]

done it

[dx100uk]

is YOUR signature on that agreement?

 

 

dx

[kitschyk]

is YOUR signature on that agreement?

 

 

dx

Unfortunately yes.

 

 

I took it out whilst we were in horrendous debt.

 

 

It was pretty obvious we couldn't afford it as we had credit card debts, overdrafts and loans galore at the time.

 

 

Necessitating an iva shortly afterwards

[kitschyk]

With regard to clause 7.

 

Do I understand that to mean that if there are no arrears and it's more than 120 months since taking out the loan

that they may consider a final settlement of 10% of the final settlement figure.

Which they have just quoted me as around £19k.

 

 

So therefore they may take 2 grand as settlement (presumably if I can prove I am in difficulty )

 

Or is that too simplistic ?

Edited February 5, 2015 by kitschyk

[kitschyk]

The whole agreement appears to say

- we can do what we like "at our discretion"

so you may never pay this thing off

 

 

you've signed it sucker

 

 

- Is that a fair summation?

[dx100uk]

yep that's the bottom line

 

 

I wonder if there might be worth in investigating the irresponsible lending route?

 

 

dx

[kitschyk]

yep that's the bottom line

 

 

I wonder if there might be worth in investigating the irresponsible lending route?

 

 

dx

 

I think that's the only recourse.

I am not sure that it would get anywhere

and also will need to find my iva details which may have been thrown away since it was all settled.

 

 

I am not sure that I can remember everything that was on it.

 

 

Would there be any record of this anywhere as it is now removed from my credit files?

[kitschyk]

Also is it worth offering a final settlement citing current difficulties?

 

 

Will that adversely affect anything?

 

 

To be honest my credit history is shot anyway until this default is gone from it