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    • Hi all. Just posting this for other users to take note of. We ordered some furniture from NCF Living in Hull and subsequently cancelled (before delivery) because of poor customer service. They now want to charge us a cancellation fee. (Fat chance). As a little background, they offer immediate delivery (7 to 10 days) on a lot of their products, because it's already manufactured and sitting in a warehouse somewhere. We ordered such an item. 18.5.24 Order placed and £190 deposit paid on a debit card. (0% finance on balance) about £2,000. Arranged them to hold for later delivery, 'cos we were about to move house. 01.06.24 Went into store after house move to fill in their "change of address" form for delivery. Problem: Finance company needed proof of adress. 02.06.24 Went back to store with Solicitor's letter from conveyance process. 06.06.24 Heard nothing further, so went back to store. The evidence had already been approved, but they hadn't told us.A printout of the file was made with notes at the top for store manager get in touch and arrange delivery. 24 .06.24 After an intervening holiday away, we'd still heard nothing, so went into the store to cancel. We were told that "admin" would be in touch within 14 days about the cancellation... Huh?! Asked for contact details of "admin" so I could call them direct (you should ALWAYS keep control of comms), but were told they had none. Went home and did a very painless chargeback for the £190 deposit. (Thanks Co-operative Bank). 25.06.24 Sooo, the day after cancelling, I get the first contact from them ever, trying to arrange delivery! Short summary of the conversation. Me: I cancelled the order yesterday. NCF: I know. Me: So, you've got a cancellation in front of you, but you're trying to make a delivery..? NCF: Well, if you want to cancel, there's a cancellation charge. Me: What costs have you incurred? NCF: We had to order the furniture. Me: It's "immediate delivery", so it's just sat in your own warehouse. NCF: We had to hold the order until you requested delivery. Me: So, it's stll sitting in your warehouse... What have you lost? NCF: You can't just cancel an order without paying the cancellation fee. Me: I just did... Yesterday. Goodbye. I've now emailed their customer services, confirming the cancellation... We'll wait and see... As a side note, there was a retired gentleman outside the store yesterday, buttonholing customers on their way in, warning them not to buy anything there. Apparently, he'd been parked there every day for 3 weeks. He paid £2,500 for a bed which had numerous faults. He was having problems getting a refund, so set up camp outside, to try and get some action. They have had the police visit him 5 times so far. He just explains that this is a civil dispute and they leave. He also showed me a laughable "banning order" that onsite Security have issued him. He said they were quite friendly and sympathetic when he told them the story and said it would probably take several months to go through any possible Court process to evict him. Anyway, I've referred him here. Don't know whether he'll turn up. I'll post further if NCF start playing games.
    • you only need to redact A/C numbers (but replace those with how many digits the number is.) everything else MUST be verbatim please. type the POC's out again please. dx  
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Help for appealing an unfair Contravention 84

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We just heard that our first appeal against this PCN has been rejected

so I thought I'd better seek some advice before submitting a second one.



The story is that:


1) We wanted to stay for the maximum 2 hour limit in a Teignbridge District Council (Devon) car park.

Like many kids, our 6 year old son likes to put the money in the machine so we gave him two pound coins

but, unfortunately, he pressed the green button before the machine had registered the 2nd coin

so we ended up with a ticket for only 30 minutes and no change (as the machine would not return the 2nd pound

and, typically, we didn't have any more change on us).


2) I jotted down the RINGO automatic payment number and then went to a café where I paid by phone for a 2 hour stay.



At the time, I just assumed I'd only be guilty of overpaying the council

(and the ticket machine has no problems with overpayments so we didn't think twice about overpaying via the telephone system).

By the way, since losing our appeal, I've realised that the service doesn't even allow for a 1 and a half hour payment.


3) We were desperate to keep to the maximum 2 hour limit and so returned to the car 1 and a half hours after our first payment

(so well within the two hour limit) and, you guessed it, found a Contravention 84 notice on the car:

“Parked with additional payment made to extend the stay beyond first time purchased”.


4) I immediately tried to ring the number provided but it was on December 31st and so no-one answered,

however, in our appeal, I took a screen shot of this attempted call and suggested that it supports our claim

that we were not trying to fiddle the system by staying beyond their time limit.


5) Our appeal was rejected as they stated we weren't specifically acknowledging the details of Contravention 84.



We've since read this convention many, many times (i.e. “Parked with additional payment made to

extend the stay beyond first time purchased”) and, despite feeling like we are being well and truly stitched up here,

find it hard to argue with the narrow scope of the wording of the contravention.



Any suggestions?



I've attached photos of the PCN, the original ticket and the ticket machine.

I don't have any photos of the car park signs and, as we were on holiday,

it would be tricky (though not impossible - my family live there) to get one.


Thank you in advance!





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How long would you say it was between the two payments? The council are right by the letter of the regulations, but I think in this case you'd stand a reasonable chance if you fought it. For me, it depends how long that gap was, really. 2 minutes and your argument is strong; 20 and it isn't.

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I have read that people have won appeals on dodgy ticket machines, the weather can effect the processing of coins as your son unfortunately appears to have discovered.


From my own recent personal experience, i would say take it the whole way as the adjudacators are decent, understanding people in my experience. Yesterday, when i was appealing my PCN i was told, that mine made a 100% success in appeals that day. But, generally it is lower with 50-60% success on average.

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