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    • HB - friend historically has left issues to the last moment, always incurring extra costs.  It has been so frustrating.  Always worried about bills; yet always ending up paying more...   Dx- Is it worth friend writing to the court to say that a legal rep could go to the court on the hearing date - to request Claim be stayed/ struck out?  Even though bank has said they will write to the courts to say arrears paid in full?  Or does bank action mean the claim court hearing will automatically be withdrawn?   Or does friend have to go the N244 route?
    • Hi Everybody,   Long time lurker and appreciative of advice on here, but have something of a pickle of my own which hopefully you can help with...   I left a flat in November 2017 and paid what I thought to be a final bill payment (with notorious SP), and also discussed my end of tenancy date with the CS rep. 6 months later go by and I get a call from somebody saying I'm overdue a bill payment for the utilities in the flat, and that they are wanting money from me. I politely told them they are mistaken and I was all finished up with them, and that they couldn't move with me to my new address. Cue another two months of nothing, and they re-appear on my phone, asking for money. I politely told them that it was nothing to do with me, and to speak to the new tenants / property company who managed the previous flat (and gave their address). 6 months later, I decide to check my credit history in-depth and see that there is a default listed on my account for around £100, so I called them up to complain that there was an unwarranted and invalid default on my account, and they highlighted that they never took the final payment and was outstanding an amount which I was not aware of. When discussing with them on my departure dates, they actually had it listed incorrectly, and I then gave them the correct dates, and said they would review and revise the bill statement but needed payment of ~£100 then and there, but would be rectified and re-imbursed when reviewed. They also said they would take care of the default on file if it was incorrect. 2 months later I get a cheque in the post for overpaying them and nothing further is required. I call them up to confirm relating to the default and they advised it would be done in due process. I am now 2 months later (apologies if these months don't add up) and I have checked my credit file with a 'Satisfied' label on the default. I called them up to get it removed, and they are saying they no longer want to remove the default, and that the default was valid.   What is the best course of action for me at this point.. Is there any hope for me here to get this removed?   Thanks in advance! Dave
    • EDIT: Sorry wrong forum, tried to delete.   Hi Everybody,   Long time lurker and appreciative of advice on here, but have something of a pickle of my own which hopefully you can help with...   I left a flat in November 2017 and paid what I thought to be a final bill payment (with notorious SP), and also discussed my end of tenancy date with the CS rep. 6 months later go by and I get a call from somebody saying I'm overdue a bill payment for the utilities in the flat, and that they are wanting money from me. I politely told them they are mistaken and I was all finished up with them, and that they couldn't move with me to my new address. Cue another two months of nothing, and they re-appear on my phone, asking for money. I politely told them that it was nothing to do with me, and to speak to the new tenants / property company who managed the previous flat (and gave their address). 6 months later, I decide to check my credit history in-depth and see that there is a default listed on my account for around £100, so I called them up to complain that there was an unwarranted and invalid default on my account, and they highlighted that they never took the final payment and was outstanding an amount which I was not aware of. When discussing with them on my departure dates, they actually had it listed incorrectly, and I then gave them the correct dates, and said they would review and revise the bill statement but needed payment of ~£100 then and there, but would be rectified and re-imbursed when reviewed. They also said they would take care of the default on file if it was incorrect. 2 months later I get a cheque in the post for overpaying them and nothing further is required. I call them up to confirm relating to the default and they advised it would be done in due process. I am now 2 months later (apologies if these months don't add up) and I have checked my credit file with a 'Satisfied' label on the default. I called them up to get it removed, and they are saying they no longer want to remove the default, and that the default was valid.   What is the best course of action for me at this point.. Is there any hope for me here to get this removed?   Thanks in advance! Dave
    • My thought is: you need a solicitor yourself, and quickly.   The legal situation sounds extremely complicated.    There's only question that I feel confident in advising you on. You ask "The letter was also not recorded in case it makes a difference." No it doesn't. It might have done if you hadn't received the letter, but you have.
    • Hi DX   I have amended the WS and I hope i have taken out the meaningless gibberish.    Thanks, Roland    IN THE County Court AT                                                                              CLAIM NO:      BETWEEN: CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED   -and- (DEFENDANT)     ___________________________________________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF      INTRODUCTION    1. I, XXXX, the Defendant in this case, make this statement in support of my defence against the Claimant, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.  The matters set out below are within my own knowledge, except where I indicate to the contrary.    THE DEFENDANT’S RESPONSE TO THE CLAIMANT’S WITNESS STATEMENT    2. The Claimant states in Paragraph 3, ‘….refer to various documents, true copiesof which are contained in the paginated bundle to this statement marked “JK”1’, but then states in para 4, ‘Acopy of the reconstituted agreementwith associated terms and conditions….pages 1-10’. There is an Agreement and 2 sets of Terms & Conditions and according to para 4 they are not the original but ‘a reconstitutedversion’. The agreement in the JK1 exhibit on page 2 shows an agreement with my name, address and a date but no Account Number or Reference Number as the same was not mentioned in the Claimant’s Particulars Of Claim, which was addressed in my Defence Para 1, ‘the particulars of claim are vague and generic…’.    3. The Claimant’s Witness Statement does not state how the agreement was made, via telephone, post or electronically.   4. There are 2 sets of Terms & Conditions Pages 4-10 which does not show my name and address as per the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Request.    5. Pages 1-10 can easily be downloaded from various internet forums and image sites and have my details inserted with any picture manipulation software.   6. The Claimant states in Para 9 that my defence is a ‘templated defence’, requesting documents pursuant of CPR 31.14 and Section 78 of the Credit Card Act 1974, this is a defendant’s right for request of information but the Claimant has failed to provide the true original Credit Card Agreement and Terms & Conditions.   7. The Claimant states in Para 25 that, ‘the Claimant allowed the proceedings to be stayed in order to allow the parties to attempt settlement negotiations…..’ this is not correct as the Claim was stayed due to the Claimant not being able to provide the requested documents pursuant of my CPR 31.14 and Section 78 of the Credit Card Act 1974. 8. Para 30 and 31of the Witness Statement requests to restore the proceedings, to strike out the Defence, has requested for a Summary Judgement, together with costs to be assessed summarily by the court. I, the Defendant, strongly object to the Claimant’s Witness Statement requesting to lift the stay and enter Judgement. I believe therefore, that this should be denied and I respectfully ask for you to strike out the claim. My reasons for this have been outlined in points 1 to 7.  9. By the reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief and invite the Court to strike out the claim.     I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.    Signed:  Dated: 
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council ticket private bailiff clamps car and police threaten to remove them from the car

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quick question. bailiffs clamp my friends car over unpaid council ticket. he sat in the car and bailiff called the police. informed him he was committing the offence of obstructing an enforcement officer and will be arrested. officers radioed control who said to go ahead and arrest them

 

can they do this


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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Short answer yes.

If its been clamped its in control of the enforcement agent.

Then if he gets in is could potentially be interfering with controlled goods without lawful excuse and obstructing an EA

Tce act 2007 sch 12 para 68 1,2,3


None of the beliefs held by "Freemen on the land" have ever been supported by any judgments or verdicts in any criminal or civil court cases.

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heres my thought and properly wrong.

could you say i,m not obstructing the enforcement officer, he is welcome to to take the car but i am not moving. its not my fault the tow truck is not insured to carry passengers


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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quick question. bailiffs clamp my friends car over unpaid council ticket. he sat in the car and bailiff called the police. informed him he was committing the offence of obstructing an enforcement officer and will be arrested. officers radioed control who said to go ahead and arrest them

 

can they do this

 

Without knowing the background it is very difficult to advise. For instance, it may be that your friend had entered into a Controlled Goods Agreement that was broken. It is possible that he has broken previous payment arrangements.

 

As I have said repeatedly on this forum, it is so important to address the debt on receipt of the Notice of Enforcement (and in fact, the previous Director General of CIVEA stated in December that approx 50% of debts are now settled at the 'Compliance Stage').

 

Has your friend actually been arrested?

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he ignored it and of the blue they clamped the car. he decided to pay as the officers warned him they has told by the control he could go ahead and arrest him on the bailiffs complaint he had been obstructed


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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Short answer yes.

If its been clamped its in control of the enforcement agent.

Then if he gets in is could potentially be interfering with controlled goods without lawful excuse and obstructing an EA

Tce act 2007 sch 12 para 68 1,2,3

 

Joseph Bloggs when you say yes you are assuming

a]that the owner of the car was also the person who was driving the car when the alleged offence was committed

b] that if they were, then the driver had received a Notice of Enforcement and the statutory 7 clear days notice had elapsed

c] that the car was not on finance

d] that the EA was certificated

for starters.

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its was the owners who had the ticket, it was the partner in the car

did have notice but ignored

no finance

was ea certified


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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Sorry, I started writing this about an hour ago then was called away so missed the previous couple of posts. However those reasons I cited are reasons why it may not be so cut and dried as Joseph asserted.

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they borrowed the money to avoid arrest. i just wanted to know for future reference to see how far the police would go.

 

the fact are. partner used car and got a council parking ticket.

they ignored it and hoped to go away.

 

enforcement officer clamped car early morning. unable to obtain access to a secure access flat to notify of it being clamped. partner came down to go to work and found it clamped. informed him that he visited the flat yesterday and left letter of attendance (no one would have allowed him entrance to the flats and wouldnt answer how he got in) produced id saying enforcement officer with photo. nothing to say he was authorized to execute warrants in england and wales. warrant of control in office as they dont need to carry them around apparently. he showed police a council website about liability orders. which said you can be arrested for obstructing an enforcement officer. i told the police they should seek advice from the police station and not rely on what the enforcement officer says.. they radioed back saying to go ahead and smash a window and arrest him.

he decided to pay because he didnt want the car damaged and towed away with extra expenses and the fact they were going to store the car 80 miles away


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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The answer as to whether the police can arrest anybody for 'obstructing' a bailiff trying to enforce a PCN is emphatically NO. Its the latest bailiff 'smoke and mirrors' trick coupled with yet more police ignorance on civil law.

 

Para 68 (1) of Schedule 12 does not apply to parking. It only applies to judicial courts which have issued warrants themselves. It doesn't apply to the administrative court known as the TEC which does not issue warrants - it merely authorises them.

 

Not that the bailiff would have had a genuine warrant with him.....

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The answer as to whether the police can arrest anybody for 'obstructing' a bailiff trying to enforce a PCN is emphatically NO. Its the latest bailiff 'smoke and mirrors' trick coupled with yet more police ignorance on civil law.

 

Para 68 (1) of Schedule 12 does not apply to parking. It only applies to judicial courts which have issued warrants themselves. It doesn't apply to the administrative court known as the TEC which does not issue warrants - it merely authorises them.

 

Not that the bailiff would have had a genuine warrant with him.....

 

Whether the enforcement agent is collecting council tax, non domestic rates, a parking fine, court fine or acting as a hceo, if they are intentionally obstructed the person acting unlawfully can expect to be arrested.

There is no mention of what types of debt the enforcement agent is collecting affecting paragraph 68.

And as you well know, the enforcement agents dont have to carry warrants/liability orders in any case


None of the beliefs held by "Freemen on the land" have ever been supported by any judgments or verdicts in any criminal or civil court cases.

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no one was stopping him removing the car. he was just sitting in the car. the tow truck driver said he cannot lift the car with someone sitting in it because of insurance purposes. maybe he was also obstructing the ea.

 

what made it worse the ea was polish and very bad broken english and the police had to speak to his office to understand what was being said


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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based on what is above. he is considering making a compliant to to the police for losses caused by them threatening arrest by obstructing an enforcement officer. the control room advised the attending officer this was the law and they would enforce it.

 

any ideas how to word it


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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I'm not quite sure what losses your friend might have incurred because of the Police action. The bailiff fees would have been the same and the only

extra fee would possibly be the clamping fee which may not be payable if the car owner did not receive the Notice that the car had been clamped.

And if that is the case then it is to the bailiff company that the owner should seek to get his money back.

 

However the Police were wrong to side with the bailff and you may be able to get compensation for threatening to smash the car window and

forcing the person who was not guilty of any misdemeanour to pay for a debt that was not theirs. Obviously the car was not guilty of any

misdemeanour either.

 

They could also suggest that the EA who would know that PCNs are not covered by the Control of Goods Regulations 2013 was guilty of

inciting the Police to commit an unlawful act and charge the EA accordingly. That might stop some of the bailiffs from continuing their lies to the

Police.

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thanks for the information thats coming back

 

just to be clear are you saying a PCN is not covered by the control of goods regulation. the breakdown of fees are listed under the letter control of goods where they have listed the car,

 

i understand that a PCN warrant is issued by the TEC so does not fall within the paragraph

 

the court”, unless otherwise stated, and subject to rules of court, means—

(a)the High Court, in relation to an enforcement power under a writ of the High Court;

(b)a county court, in relation to an enforcement power under a warrant issued by a county court;

©in any other case, a magistrates' court;

 

with the TEC warrant was issued from a business centre with no hearing or judge to rule. just a member of staff saying yes they owe you for a parking ticket and you can pursue it.

 

because of the police threat his father paid over £500 which would not have been paid. if the police did not get evolved he could have got a family friend with a tow truck to remove the car into private storage and invite the bailiff to remove the clamp


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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You may all note I have removed some posts for now as they had nothing to do with the original plea. These will all be sorted and moved to a thread of their own possibly in the Bear Garden or Parking Forum but give a bit of time for this to be done.


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As I understand it Ploddertom the OP has moved on from asking if the Police and EA action was correct to learning that that there is a possibility at the very least that the Police and EAs were wrong to threaten the car occupants. And the change in the thread reflected that.

Do you suggest that the OP should start a new thread seeking clarification of Fair-parking's assertions and arguments against by taurusgemini and

Joseph Bloggs.

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I hesitate to comment as i know little or nothing about parking enforcment, but this is the active regulation which enables the use of schedule 12 in court fines would this not also be applicable here

 

62Enforcement by taking control of goods

(1)Schedule 12 applies where an enactment, writ or warrant confers power to use the procedure in that Schedule (taking control of goods and selling them to recover a sum of money)


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Having read some of what was on here I got confused as to the original post asking about obstruction then deviated into whether enforcement for PCN's were lawful. Therefore not surprised all the differing posts were removed. Maybe we should have a new thread to discuss the Obstruction issue as there are some matters that are clearly not but it appears that Bailiffs are again twisting HM Constabulary around their little fingers.

 

Procedures as to the legality of PCN Enforcement is one that should be taken up with the Government, conjecture here only seems to provide ammunition for elsewhere when in actually fact it is only 1 persons view and not that of the Forum as a whole. If the subject is going to degenerate into tit for tat then this thread is better off closed.

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I understand what is being said, but as a general point ,how are people to give advice on the behavior of EAs if they do not understand what it is they are allowed to do in the first place.

 

From what I have read I see no reason why the schedule 12 procedures do not apply in parking enforcment, this also means that the protections are also available, I think any advice given should reflect this.


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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If there is one thing I have learned from this Forum thanks to interpretations of the various Acts and Regulations by Bailiff Advice and Ploddertom for

example is that you cannot take one line of and Act and take it as read without reading other parts of the the Act.

 

There is no doubt that the Control of Goods Regulations 2013 was rushed into force without perhaps crossing all the "t"s and dotting the "i".

Schedule 12 begins by explaining the definitions of the words used. Below I have copied the definition of "Court" in their world.

3

1] In this schedule

 

 

 

 

 

"the court", unless otherwise stated, and subject to the rules of court, means-

 

[a] the High Court, in relation to an enforcement power under a writ of the High Court

 

a county court, in relation to an enforcement power under a warrant issued by a county court

 

[c] in any other court, a magistrates court

 

It is Fair-parking's argument that the TEC does not fall into any of those categories. Indeed on his website he states that he has in writing from

the TEC that they confirm that they do not comply with the above definition of a Court. I have no way of knowing whether the MOJ intended

to exclude parking from the Regulations since it ihas been decriminalised or whether it was a careless piece of legislation.

 

It may be surprising that this very important point has been missed by most people on this Forum but to me it does read that the TEC is not

included as a Court and therefore neither is parking .

 

It follows on from there that the Police were wrong to threaten to arrest the people in the car and should be of help to the OP in deciding what

action could follow from his first post.

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1761 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you
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