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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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hoist/Cohen claimform - old HSBC credit card 'debt'***Claim Dismissed with Costs***


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87 Need for default notice.

 

(1)Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

 

(a)to terminate the agreement, or

 

(b)to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

 

©to recover possession of any goods or land, or

 

(d)to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, or

 

(e)to enforce any security.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1561/schedule/2/made - tells you what must be contained in a DN for it to be valid. Yours fails on alot of things as it is a template.

 

61 Signing of agreement.

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a)a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b)the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

©the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

Im not sure how to advise you with s61 but it shows your agreement is improperly executed. Maybe Andyorch can advise you there.

 

You must quote acts and show the Judge where things fail, they will not do it for you and will probably rule against you if you dont.

 

You need to understand all of your arguments and have them in writing in front of you before you enter the court.

 

You will be very nervous and you are going against a professional.

 

Can you think of one thing where someone on their first time doing something is going to beat an experienced professional?

 

If you prove their documents fail to comply with the Act you can only hope the Judge makes sure the law is followed.

 

They may still take the view, 'you have a debt pay it'.

 

Sorry to be all doom and gloom. Im not a solicitor or an expert so take my advice for what its worth.

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Should I inform the court?

 

I would retain it for the day of the hearing.....

 

here is the relevant CPR...

 

 

CPR 33....

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part33

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I'm worrying so much about all this and I have a health condition that reacts badly to stress.

 

I'm just going to go into the hearing with all the information I've gathered and that you've all given me and just be honest with the judge.

 

 

Which is I was in a mess when my first marriage broke down and I felt that I did the right thing when I returned from abroad (contacting all creditors based on the information on my credit record)

 

 

everyone apart from 2-3 have complied with my requests for information.

This lot being one of them.

 

 

I'm going to say that I'm not a professional and I'm not trying to get out of my debts.

I just want them to prove that I owe them the money.

It's that simple to me.

 

 

Then I'm going to say where (using the relevant laws) I believe they've not complied and if they can prove it I'm more than happy to pay

- it will be using and I&E as I don't have the money.

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don't let certain posts scare you silly big.

just remember we don't know who anyone really is on these forums...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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well blocks of text are difficult to read

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So SWS sent off today (recorded etc etc)

 

In preparation for me losing on Friday shall I go armed with an I&E breakdown for the judge to see exactly how much I cannot afford?

 

Just keep a copy of my post #202 ...may come in handy if all else fails.

We could do with some help from you.

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Dont worry the second is the want you need to read...first link removed.

We could do with some help from you.

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Based on experience (and I'm really clutching at straws here) What's people's experience of the person that actually drafts the WS actually turns up on the day of the hearing?

 

They invariably ever do...as its a rent a Solicitor for most of the DCA,s and not the draft person of the WS.

 

Therefore its hearsay evidence

We could do with some help from you.

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Any sol worth their salt will surely look at their evidence and say "you're not going to win this one based on what you've provided thus far"....

 

Or am I looking at things too simplistically?

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Most of these types of claims the witness statement is rarely ever read by the DJ...thats why you have to make sure hes aware of the above fact

We could do with some help from you.

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You know who signed the WS and you have a copy of their DQ...print copies of them and a copy of the above CPR and take this with you on the day...to prove the witness is not in attendance.

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We could do with some help from you.

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Some advice that I've received from a Solicitor - the fact that I have the original NOA from HSBC will be enough for the DJ to award the judgement to them...

 

Shall I go with my I&E or will I have time to sort that out?

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Who are Spire...are they representing Hoist ?

We could do with some help from you.

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