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    • Please do although obviously I don’t know the facts from your side but at least I can tell you how much of a cut and paste job it is.
    • Please check back for a full reply tomorrow. However, it would help if you would introduce pergo spaces into a story full stop it's very long and especially for people with small screens it's very difficult to follow when it is so compacted.   I think this straight has become rather confused because of the third party account which we received at the outset. I think it will probably be helpful if you could repost your story but on a new thread and more openly spaced please.   Then we can start to have a closer look at it. However, as I've already suggested, I think there are two issues. The question of your liability in the accident and the problem of how you have been persuaded to take a rental car at such a high rate.    I would suggest that you hold off telephoneing anyone until we have had a closer look.before you do anything on the telephone. You have obviously had some very important conversations but you don't have any evidence of them. Although the other side may say that they have recorded them, you you may find it difficult to get hold of those recordings if in fact those recordings incriminate them in any way. for instance if they have promised you that you don't have to pay anything for the hire car, that would be an extremely useful conversation to have but you may find that it is difficult to get hold of.   please start a new thread it will be much easier to continue from there                                
    • When I sadly lost my job a while back, i reportd it immpediately to DWP as you are supposed to, but didnt realise at the time that the day I reported to them was the day before I was paid out for the last month. I was actually paid extra whem I left as it was cheaper than redundancy fort the business and at the time it was a good financial move (so I thought).   I was paid on Fri 26th Jan, they paid me out 2 months in one go. I reported to DWP on the 22nd of Han that I was made unemployed, had the letters and evidence. As they spun the story, because of their assesment dates and that, my first payment was on the 1st May and reassured that it works the other way around. That when work starts again, if I dont actually receive money from the company during the assesment period, there wont be an issue as it balances up.   Can I believe this or was it another spun story? I'm concerned that as I'll be paid monthly, (Starting on the 15th paid on the last day of the month), assment ends on the 22nd. Tha they'll take that money into consideration.   I'm just concerned due to the disparity it would cause between 4 odd months I endured with zero income because of how their system works and whatever they ahe in place to counter at this end of the claim.   Anywa, it's just awonder.   Cheers,   Ade    
    • Hi, OP sister here, im going to try and explaine in full details from start to present and see if you have any advice for me on what i can do. on 15/1/2021  at 16:25pm i was traveling along hazlebarrow cresent wich is on my estate at around 30mph, its a tight road with cars parked along the left hand side, as i proceeded through, a van ( which was parked on my left hand side, facing towards me) pulled out from the side of the road, he stopped the van wich resulted in the van being at an angled stationary position on the road. I breaked immediately but the ice and snow skidded my tyers, i skidded into the drivers side of his van, my car bounced off his van and sent my vehicle head first into the back of a parked car ( wich was originally parked at the back of the van before he set off from the side of the road. I will refer to the van driver as MR seddon. ( im going to attatch a street veiw picture and diagram wich will be more helpful in understanding how the accident accured ect) .  The owner of the parked car, which i will refer to as Mr simpson came out of his house. Myself, mr seddon and mr simpson exchanged details and took photos, then i left the scene as my first concern, understandably was to contact my midwife and the hospital. I live just round the corner from the scene of the accident so i slowly drove my car to my property. I contacted Go skippy the next day 16/1/21 and informed them of the accident and gave them all the details ect . by the following monday 18/1/21 i had a call from AX who said they was dealing with my claim as go skippy will not deal with it as i am third party insured. Over the next few days, i complied with their requests ( gave them a written statment of what happened, sent them pictures of the damage to my vehicle and mr seddons van ect). Then on the 19/1/21 AX contacted me again and asked if i need a curtesy vehicle, my first response was ' how much will that cost me?' Of which she replied ' nothing because your insurance covers the cost'. I agreed to the curtesy vehicle and the vehicle was delivered to me on the 20/1/21.  Over the coming weeks, AX and i had regular contact about my claim and updated me in regards to my own vehicle. At one point she said it could be deemed a 50/50 liability. an engineer had collectes my car, deemed in a total loss as the damage was more than 66% of its total value and written my car off . i had a call from a lady from AX and she said they have valued the car and i will be payed out £2200 . i asked when and she said ' we will send you a cheque out for £358 in the post, and the remaining balance will be payed out by Admirel but this may take a few weeks more' .  I didnt hear nothing for around 2 weeks so i comtacted AX again for an update, she told me that admirel are refusing liability and there now in dispute. Every time i contacted them they said the same thing ' admirel are refusing liability' i asked them why admirel consider themSelf not liable and she read from the notes ' mr seddon said he was driving along the road, the corsa ( my vehicle) was at high speed coming towards me , i beeped my horn and tried moving out of the way but i couldnt because of the ice and the snow and the corsa hit my van' . the lady at AX said the problem is that the damage to both our vehicles is consistant with both our stories and due to there being no witnesses, no cctv or dash cam footage- no one can prove who is at fault. I then questioned why i had been told i was being paid out £2200 and she said 'well we have to advice you the estimated value' of wich i replied 'no, there was no 'advice' - i was told it was a done deal i was getting paid £2200 and she told me i had a cheque arriving in the post!!!.  The lady then told me she had requested a ' none prejudice payment' from admirel and waiting for a response.   Shortly after this phone call, AX contacted me again and asked if i had the funds to repair my own vehicle or buy another one, ( im.assuming admirel refused to pay the ' none prejudice payment) I told them No i do not as i have a baby due and even if i did have the funds, why on earth would i fork out to repair my own vehicle when i wasnt at fault ?! . she said ok im going to pass this to managment and see what we can do .   I contacted AX again and asked for an update and expressed how unhappy i was with their service as i felt like they hadnt fought my corner, bowed down to admirel and then had the cheek to ask me to repair my own vehicle . again she said ' its still in dispute, admirel are not budging i have to pass this on to management. She then asked me for 3 months bank statements to 'prove' i dont have the funds to repair my vehicle myself. I thought this was ridiculous and stated that even if i had the funds, why would i repair my own vehicle when im.not at fault!? Obviously this has been on going since middle of january, pretty fed up. My brother come to this forum and you guys had mentioned the hire car rates may fall back on me. I contacted AX first thing this morning regarding this. I made it clear that they can collect the vehicle to stop the daily charges as i do not want to be in thousands of pounds worth of debt when i am a lone parent with a new born baby. and the lady told me ' we will try every avenue to recover the cost from Admirel for the hire car charges, if this means taking them to court, even if this is unsuccessful, considering you comply with your hire vehicle contract and you work with us with your claim ( which you have been doing) you will not be liable for this debt and if worst comes to worst and admirel will not pay, we will just wipe the debt off' . i made her repeat several times that i will not be liable for this debt and she said i have told you my name, and these calls are recordered and i am telling you that this debt will not be on you to pay . She then said that if i was to give AX the hire car back now, then it would jepordise everything. And she said ' we gave you that hire vehicle because we beleive your not at fault so you can keep using it as we know you need transport' I then questioned the need for bank statements again and she told me the reason they need bank statements is so if it goes to court - AX can justify why i needed the hire car for so long ( because i didnt have the funds to repair my vehicle or buy another one) and also so they can prove they have tried every root possible.    After the phonecall it got me thinking about how she said ' aslong as you comply with your hire car contract your not liable for any charges for the hire car' . will they find any fault with the contract just to try and lumber me with the debt? , as it seems pretty fishy how they would just ' wipe off' thousands of pounds if admirel refuse to pay.  And also, she said if i gave the hire car back it would jepodise the case . so when the lady rang me the other week asking if i had funds to repair or buy myself a new vehicle , if i had said yes, ill buy a car tomorrow and come collect the curtesy one. Then what? Wouldnt that ' jepodise' the case?    As you can imagaine, my heads spinning. Stressed and dont know what to do. I dont even care about a pay out , i just want to give the hire car back and be completely done with AX . but now im scared if i give the car back i will be lumbered with thousand of pounds worth of debt from the hire car charges.  Tomorow i am going to read thoroughly through the ' hire car contract' . i am going to give them another call and record them saying i am not liable for the debt. Any advice on how i can just give the hire car back to them without me being liable to pay the debt?  Thank you Gemma
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PPS PCN - Great Weatern Hotel Swindon - ticket incorrectly displayed

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Going to have a proper mull through this later, as I said I had 15 minutes to knock it out and the content has likely suffered as a result. I'll be sure to clean it up before sending.


In relation to sticking to the points of law, unfortunately I'm not well versed in civil law so I'm kind of winging it from the small amount of reading I've done.


I'll have a proper read through the content this evening and update accordingly.

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Keep it simple so change the wording that syas "massage" of figures and dont say farcial use words like unrealistic instead. You dont want to come across a a green biro nutter so stick to the exact point and any subjective thought to a minimum.

The points of law are really things like

The PPC has failed to show that it has the assigned rights to make claims in its own name and has refused to provide sight of any contract that may give them those rights.

The ticket was purchased and displaid so no actual loss has been caused as the prescribed fee was paid. This fee determines the maximum possible loss caused by a breach of the conditions.

The Estimate of loss does not reflect the loss caused by the breach but are in reality attributed to the costs of defending their claims at an appeal and as this represents on 2% of all claims then it cannot said to be a genuine pre-estimate of loss but is an adminstrative burden that is taken up due to the requirements of legislation and as such not part of the losses caused by an incorrectly displayed ticket.

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Hi guys,


Appeal is due to be reviewed today, just to give you a further update, I submitted the following further evidence on Friday:




PPS replied with:




Doesn't seem to me like they've actually answered any of my appeal points, they've just repeated their case summary which in my mind isn't adequate. Fingers crossed we get a good result today.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi guys,


Feels funny coming back to this thread 12 months later from the point of initially posting it. My case was adjourned due to the ParkingEye Limited vs Beavis case as the majority of my appeal was based around GPEOL. Today POPLA have emailed and asked me if I wish to submit any further evidence within the next 7 days before the case is heard. Is there any further evidence I should look at submitting based off of new information in relation to the above case? Or shall I just let it go to appeal with my current appeal as is?





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Wright Hassal are in the pocket of the parking companies so it wont make much difference but if you can get to the site you can photograph the signage and we can offer an opinion on whether it forms a contract or not. Again, there has been court cases that have decided what isnt a contractual offer so we have more certainty on that now.

Even if you lose your appeal you dont ahve to pay them, you can make them work for it and there are other arguments not worth making to POPLA that are winners in the long game.

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Here's a picture of the main signage in the car park 


This was taken a couple of days after the incident.


I'm assuming POPLA will throw out the majority of my GPEOL argument but does the fact the ticket was paid for and just not correctly displayed hold and weight?


Lets say POPLA dismiss my appeal, what's the best course of action after that?


Thanks for your reply.





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to answer your question about the display of the ticket

- no, POPLA will not find in your favour but a court will as the claim would be "de minimis" as they havent actually lost any money becuase the main reason for the contract is to get you to pay to park, not earn money by nit-picking (the reality is they make more money from the supposed breaches than the parking money and it is all tax free)


the signage confuses a contract with a breach of contract.


They say the contract is you obey all of those terms.

they dont say that you agree to pay them a different amount to the tariff if you dont and also they use the word "may" rather than "shall" so no obligation on your part

.The sign is an "invitation to treat" and not a contract.


Rework this into your appeal and see what they say.

I doubt if they will allow it but the reasons for rejection will be very telling.

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I'll do some research and submit that as further evidence, though im not holding my breath!


I think this will likely come down to having to let it go to court and hope its thrown out off the back of no real loss.


I'll sort the additional evidence and let you know what garbage they come back with.


Thanks for your continued support.


Wasn't entirely sure how to word the below as the research I did didn't help me a bunch in this scenario.


Would the below suffice as additional evidence?:


"I only have a brief further piece of evidence to add. I’d like to draw your attention to the wording of the main signage in blue and put forward the fact that firstly it confuses a “contract” with a breach of contract.


There is no direct mention of the fact that if I fail to adhere to their terms that I shall agree to pay them an amount different to the parking tariff.


The sign states “failure to comply with any of these conditions may result in your vehicle being issued with a parking charge notice”.


Due to the wording there is no obligation on my part.


This sign is simply an invitation to treat and not a contract.

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that will do. Wright Hassal work as rentathreats for the parking cowboys so dont expect reason to prevail but it will be interesting to see how they write up their deliberations. The IAS have a habit of inventing new laws and actually ruin their clients' liklihood of success in an actual court claim.

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  • 3 months later...

So unsurprisingly the decision didn't go in my favor. To summise:

1. Refused an unreasonable parking charge as £100 is deemed reasonable under BPA guidelines.

2. Signage is deemed appropriate by POPLA so that point is nil.

3. They are in receipt of evidence that the operator has a legal right to manage parking charges at that location.

4. Because my ticket was not correctly displayed I did not display valid information.


As for now what is the best course of action? They state I have 28 days to pay the fee of £100.


As always your input is much appreciated.

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next thing to do is ignore the parking co and POPLA.


Did you receive a copy of the contract between the operator and the landlord or just POPLA saying they saw one? generally they dont question these things well and believe any old rubbish put in front of them.


That applies to signage as well, dont forget, POPLA is set up and paid for by the parking companies and the system being run by Ombudsman Services Ltd has a very narrow remit as to what they can look at so this isnt the end of the line but really the first step of a longer process.


Also, back to the original point, how have the parking co suffered a loss?

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Okay all noted, they didn't supply the document in relation to the parking companies right to operate on the land. Their reply was also very vague, they failed to answer my point in relation to the signage wording query also.


What is the likely course of action from here? Should I ignore the company will they likely try to take it through civil court? As much as I don't want to give these crooks a penny of my money I'm not sure the hassle of court attendance is worth it, ericsbrother I've sent you a pm also.


Apparently you have too many stored messages so it wouldn't send, let me know if you can clear any, cheers!

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Members should not be giving advice nor asking for advise by pm


Please read our rules

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Have noted the rules, its a question that doesn't relate to this scenario directly and is of a sensitive nature, it contains information that I would not be happy to have in the public domain, however I'll avoid asking it should you deem this inappropriate

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My suggestion is you wait and see what they do. Most likely they will send you a reminder letter and crow about how POPLA says they are right so you must pay up- not true.


People who say that they want to avoid court should take the logical step- pay them- but that is not the answer you want, you want to somehow create some sort of telepathic connection between us and the parking co to dissuade them from doing anything. it doesnt work like that,


they are allowed to waste their money doing whatever they want and it is only wrong when a judge says so.


Up to that point they will hope that you will lose your nerve and cough up so be prepared to be in this for the long run if you really want the matter to be over.


You now have the opportunity to do a bit more research that may well dssuade them from taking legal action, like when they write to you next time demand "strict proof" that a contract exists between them and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts and make legal claims in their own name.


They wont want to show you that but they need one ohterwise how can they expect to win at court?


After you get past that you demand to see the planning permission for their signage.


Agsin they will no doubt bluster about private land and deemed consent but that isnt relevant either.


again, they wont like t answer that question in a court so the matter will then be quietly dropped.


Dont encourage them by demanding these things before they have wasted their time and money chasing you,


any sign of keenness will be read as weakness in your resolve.

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  • 3 years later...



I originally posted here almost 5 years ago regarding a PPS PCN I received due to the wind blowing my ticket face down. It went to appeal and I heard nothing of it, at least until now 4 years later!

Essentially a letter was forwarded to me from an old address requesting payment within 5 days of the dated letter (which has now passed) or they will initiate CC activity etc.

I no longer own the vehicle and I've moved addresses twice during the time period that has passed. What is the best course of action here? 


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Was their letter headed "Letter Before Action" or "Letter Before Claim"?  If so it is a credible threat of legal action and needs to be replied to.


If instead it's the usual rubbish about how they MAY take you to court and you COULD owe millions of pounds in costs, just ignore the threat.  However, it's a good idea to send them a very short letter with your new address, otherwise they could go for a default CCJ.


In any case "fluttering ticket" cases are the easiest to defend legally, if they were stupid enough to take you to court they'd just get a right kicking.



We could do with some help from you.



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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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threads merged now for complete history.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for merging dx.

To summise, the letter from PPS effectively says they will now start County Court Action as I haven't met their conditions regarding payment. I'll write a brief letter to update them of my new address to avoid the CCJ default as per the advice from FTM Dave. I'm fully prepared to go through the motions with this one.

I'll update should I receive any more correspondence from them.

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a simple letter telling them that you deny any debt is due and that they should serve all papers on your current address.


If the letter doesnt make it clear that it is a PAP letter before action then tell them that as they have failed to so far follow the civil procedure rules for pre action protocol any claim they make will likely be reduced even if hell has frozen over and they somehow win

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  • 2 weeks later...

Morning all,

I've received a further letter from PPS & BW Legal today, requesting payment be made by the 2nd of December plus an extra £60 on the grand total for their debt collection fees. From a quick Google it seems that BW are just another bunch of cowboys, lots of questionable reviews online about them.


Typical scare mongering letter regarding a PAP and CC proceedings, stating I may be liable for court costs, solicitors costs (in a small claims court???) and liable to a CCJ etc. 


The main thing is, they have the correct address for me now which means no default CCJ. I guess I just disregard this and create a new "threatening letters" section in my filing cabinet?



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