BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

[caverncity]

Hello,

By searching google I can see this has happened to a number of people

however there hasnt been any conclusion so here is my problem and not sure where I stand.

 

Out of the blue I received a shocking & demanding email from buymobiles asking me for £360

or return of goods within 7 days as, as they say I have been disconnected from T-Mobile.

 

In April 2013 I followed a link from HDUK for a Nexus 4 at £15.50 a month with a free phone.

I took up this offer and received said phone and paid T-Mobile every month

 

 

however on the 18 month due to the small amount of minutes I had I decided to buy out my contract

by ringing up T-Mobile and asking for a pac code which in turn gave me a final bill of approx £66.

 

I then checked using checkmend if T-Mobile had a hold on the phone and it came up clear

so sold it and used the money to pay off my bill.

I then took out another contract with EE.

 

Now I have received this email and am very annoyed about it,

one

that the phone was advertised as free,

 

 

two

that the phone was £279 new at the time and after 18 months is no where near worth £360

 

 

three

that I dont know where I stand.

 

 

Also they state I have recently been disconnected and have not fullfilled the minimum 2 years.

But i have as I bought out the remaining months and T-Mobile said thats all I need to pay.

 

I have just checked the terms on their site and the only one was EE and that states after six months the phone is mine to keep.

 

 

 

I am not sure what the terms stated at the time of purchase or if I actually read them.

I have finished off contracts before and have not had this happen.

 

The email is in my next post.

I understand these are not terms so not sure where they have come from and why they are paragraphed the way they are.

 

Seems to me this company are bullies and have found a way of demanding extra money from customers

when they upgrade etc early using another company or provider.

 

Using "waybackmachine" I have found the original offer give or take a day

and it clearly says phone FREE as does their terms however it seems the phone isnt free its on loan.

 

Buymobiles have informed me there are two contracts one for the network and one for the phone.

 

I emailed them back and I have just received this reply.

I asked for a breakdown of their loss in me ending the contract early.

I told them i bought the contract out.

I asked for a hard copy of the terms of the sale which they sent

but they could easily be changed in their favour if they think I dont have them.

 

"In regard to this the payment for the goods or return of the goods has been requested

as the network have advised us that the contract has been disconnected during the minimum term.

 

When you placed the order you entered into two contracts,

one for the airtime which is with the network provider

and one contract for the goods which is with ourselves.

 

 

A disconnection of any kind within the minimum term is a breach of this agreement,

if you have ended the contract early this is still classed as a disconnection .

 

We require the debt to be paid to ourselves or the goods returned,

the amount due is the handset cost + VAT.

I have attached the Terms and Conditions which is your agreement . "

 

No where did it say I was entering into two contracts.

If they are saying the phone was part of a loan agreement

then law states they must send me an agreement to which I sign

which includes the terms. This didnt happen.

 

Annoyingly I was going to keep the phone and tariff as a spare but wanted my gold number to use on my new contract.

I didnt even save much ending it approx £25. Kicking myself! dont know which way to turn now.

Edited January 11, 2015 by caverncity

[caverncity]

LETTER OF DEMAND PURSUANT TO THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES 1998 AND ANNEX B OF THE PRACTICE DIRECTION-PRE ACTION CONDUCT

 

Dear

 

We have been notified by your service provider T-Mobile that you have recently been disconnected. As a result, in accordance with our terms and conditions, which are fully particularised below, we now require you to pay to us the following sum, for the products provided;

 

Amount due £360.00 or Return of Goods

 

Return Address;

A1comms Ltd (F.A.O The Collections Team)

Contract House

Turnpike Business Park

Alfreton

DE55 7AD

 

Alternatively the goods supplied can be returned (to the address at the top of this letter) but must be in good condition and in full working order. You have 7 days from the date of this letter to return the products failing which we will proceed to recover from you the cost of the products as particularised below. Assuming you fail to return the products in good working order within 7 days, it is our policy to provide you with one opportunity to settle the debt prior to legal action being commenced. This letter is therefore being sent pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules 1998 and in accordance with Annex B of the Practice Direction – Pre Action Conduct. We should highlight that should you fail to pay pursuant to this letter within 7 days (assuming you haven’t returned the products in good working order) we will either commence court proceedings or alternatively we may pass the debt on to a third party which will then in turn commence a court claim to recover the monies due. This letter should therefore be taken seriously.

 

 

1 The Debt

1.1 As stated you owe a total of £360.00, to us. Please note should payment not be forthcoming and a claim is issued we reserve the right to claim statutory interest at a rate of 8% in respect of each of the amounts from their due dates following our payment requests, to the date of actual payment.

2 The Claim

2.1 In anticipation of forthcoming legal proceedings (assuming the goods are not returned or paid for pursuant to the terms and conditions below), we will summarise our position below.

2.2 You entered into a contract with us when ordering the phone and tariff from our website. After you placed an order you will have received an email from us acknowledging that we have received your order. Once Goods were dispatched to you, having passed security checks, you will have been sent by email a Dispatch Confirmation. This is when the contract was formed between you and A1 Comms Limited.

2.3 By proceeding to confirm the order on our website you indicated agreement to our terms and conditions, a copy of which you are directed to on the website.

2.4 These terms and conditions note the following:

2.4.1 “By ordering goods you agree to be bound by these Terms...”

2.4.2 “If you purchase a Contract phone or Sim-Only we will often charge you less for those Goods than the amount we would charge if you were buying them without a Network Contract (the Retail Price). You acknowledge that us providing those Goods to you for free or at less than the Retail Price is conditional on you not downgrading your Tariff or ending your Network Contract during the Minimum Term.”

2.4.3 “Except in circumstances where you cancel your Contract and your Network Contract in accordance with clause 9, if your Network Contract ends before the end of the Minimum Term or if you downgrade your Tariff then:

2.4.4 Clause 4.6.1 - Within 7 days of the downgrade or end of the Network Contract you must:

(a) Pay us the difference between the price you paid for the Contract Phone or Sim-Only and a sum equal to the Retail Price including VAT, plus the market value of the Promotional Products plus VAT; or

(b) If the contract Phone or Sim-Only and any associated Promotional Products are in good working order, fully functioning and intact you can return them to us”;

2.4.5 Clause 4.7 – “If you do not make the payment required under clause 4.6.1 then we will be entitled to take back the Contract Phone or Sim-Only and any associated Promotional Products and you must return them to us as soon as we ask you to do so”.

2.4.6 Clause 4.8 – “If you fail to return any Contract Phone and Promotional Products under clause 4.7 we will commence proceedings to recover the cost of the Goods from you including but not exclusive to invoicing you for the sums owed”.

2.5 As a result, you are clearly in breach of the contract. As stated, on the basis that the goods are not returned within 7 days pursuant to the terms and conditions, the total amount due currently amounts to £360.00. Please note should proceedings be issued interest can be claimed at the statutory rate of 8% from the date each amount fell due to the date at which settlement is received.

2.6 Payment of the Goods can be made using debit or credit card by contacting us on the telephone number 0345 413 6212.

3 The Next Steps

3.1 Should the goods not be returned nor payment made in full, we will be left with no other option than to commence legal proceedings in 14 days or pass the debt to a third party to recover payment. In the event that proceedings are issued, we or the third party will seek to statutory interest, and seek to recover any legal costs of bringing the claim in addition to the balance discussed above. Any legal proceedings could result in a county court judgment being entered against you which if unpaid, could impact on your ability to raise credit in the future.

3.2 Finally, we are obliged to advise you that you may wish to take independent legal advice in respect of this matter. Free independent advice and assistance can be obtained from several organisations. If you require any advice on this please contact us for details.

 

We look forward to hearing from you as a matter of urgency.

 

Yours sincerely

Collections Team

[dx100uk]

send them a CCA request if they are saying you entered a money agreement [HP or personal]

 

 

if they are doing this

I hope they have a consumer credit licence.

 

 

sounds a bit spoof to me

 

 

dx

[Keyzer Soze]

They really are pain.

 

 

They tried to pull that with me, but I got out of it.

 

 

It was fairly tedious,

 

 

have a look at my previous posts to see how it went.

 

 

I called their bluff because I didn't think they would take legal action

 

 

when I could prove that I had paid my account up in full (to O2)

 

 

and they gave up eventually.

 

Good luck.

[caverncity]

I am still unsure if they are right

 

 

I have as recommended by CAB emailed a letter with an offer for the average cost of the phone in todays market

or a replacement phone but I will need to buy another phone.

 

 

I have not heard anything back in relation to my offer

 

 

received a new letter of demand instead this time headed A1 Comms, the other was headed buymobiles.

 

Not sure if its being ignored so will have to post it recorded instead, sending Monday recorded.

 

I have found the Sales of Goods Act 1982 which refers to supplying goods free during a contract

but as a layman its a bit hard to understand most or all of it or if any applies to this and if in my favour or not.

 

If they choose to ignore my offer then that wont go in their favour and if it does got to a debt recovery

I shall be sending a Cease & Desist letter for the amount they are asking.

 

 

Not sure if I send it to Buymobiles or wait till it goes to debt recovery which I dont want it to

but if they abide by the C&D letter then at least a judge will see the debt and may get my day in court.

 

It has been brought to my attention by A1 that i had two contracts this wasnt pointed out

and no way was I aware of it.

 

 

If this is the case of two contracts one being with T-Mobile and one with A1

then the phone was surely lent to me for a period of 24 months and in my eyes that is a loan agreement

to which I never signed nor did I receive by post a hard copy of an agreement to sign.

 

 

Unless I am wrong thinking it is a loan?

 

 

I will send a CCA request as to me if the phone is not free as advertised

and is part of a contract for 24 months then that is a loan agreement.

 

 

Am I right in thinking a loan agreement has to be sent out as a hard copy and signed by the customer.

[caverncity]

They really are pain in the a**e. They tried to pull that with me, but I got out of it. It was fairly tedious, have a look at my previous posts to see how it went. I called their bluff because I didn't think they would take legal action when I could prove that I had paid my account up in full (to O2) and they gave up eventually.

 

Good luck.

 

Yes I did read your post hence why I posted my dilemma. Yours was cancelled due to signal but I cancelled mine, well bought out the contract.

Say a contract is 24 months long and I ring the provider and ask how many months left and they say six. I then ask can I pay the remaining months and they say yes for "this amount" and I pay up in full then surely I have met the 24 month terms?

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?427621-Buymobiles.net-**RESOLVED-amp-APOLOGY**

[Keyzer Soze]

I argued that I had paid the contract in full and if they had a dispute with anyone, it was the network as they hadn't passed it on. In my case, A1 Comms blinked first. I had informed them that I was prepared to take it all the way to court, if necessary.

[Keyzer Soze]

In my case, O2 agreed to split the cost of the remaining time on the contract, but it was still paid in full.

[caverncity]

I argued that I had paid the contract in full and if they had a dispute with anyone, it was the network as they hadn't passed it on. In my case, A1 Comms blinked first. I had informed them that I was prepared to take it all the way to court, if necessary.

 

I told them that but they said thats fine but i hadnt fullfilled their 24 mth contract and broke their terms. I will email them a copy of the final bill and reiterate that i met the full term.

[caverncity]

If this is two contracts as they say then contract one is a service contract so not subject to The CCA then what is contract two. ? If its a free phone that has a reclaim value within the term then will that be subject to the CCA?

[Keyzer Soze]

If memory serves, there's only one contract, the other one seems to be one they invent when it's convenient. Have you you found any cases where A1 comms have followed through on their threats?

[caverncity]

If memory serves, there's only one contract, the other one seems to be one they invent when it's convenient. Have you you found any cases where A1 comms have followed through on their threats?

 

I have found similar cases to mine but havent heard of them following through. I have Even emailed them to ask if a1 followed through but didnt get any replies. Yeh i agree with you on the other contract. they make it to fleece customers when most people buy out or downgrade their contracts especially now when money is tight.

[caverncity]

send them a CCA request if they are saying you entered a money agreement [HP or personal]

 

 

if they are doing this

I hope they have a consumer credit licence.

 

 

sounds a bit spoof to me

 

 

dx

 

Just checked online their CCA licence is pending.

Application / Licence Details

Licence Number:

0665883

Licence Status:

Pending

 

It would be interesting to know if "a company" should have a CCA when offering free goods subject to a contract but add in their T&C a clawback value for said goods if the contract is broken. Or even if its subject to a higher purchase agreement.

 

I might be clutching here!

[dx100uk]

if they are making you sign a consumer credit agreement whereby it mentions the CCA in the doc they must hold a consumer credit licence

 

 

dx

[caverncity]

Well sent letter of dispute asking to negotiate to which according to royal mail they have received today.

 

 

I also received today a letter through the post exactly the same as the email asking for said debt to be paid,

 

 

this time though it was broken down as £300 plus £60 VAT for the phone,

 

 

a phone that is two years old discontinued and was only £279 on release and later reduced to £199.

 

Earlier on I also received via email from A1 Comms a standard Final demand with no reference to my letter or previous email I sent asking to negotiate.

[caverncity]

Hi seeing as i have had a final demand letter

and to save spamming would it be advisable/possible to move this to the legal forum

in-case this thread is overlooked and someone there may be able to advise more.

 

Also if I decide to pay the full amount of the demand in protest

can I take them to a small claims court to try and get all or part of it back.

 

 

I am prepared to pay some of it if it wasnt my phone which is debatable

 

 

but as they are ignoring me

 

 

I was thinking of paying all off it to stop it going to a debt recovery or court.

 

 

I rang t-mobile too and they cant understand why they are asking for the cost of the phone

and will (if they do) send a letter to confirm I paid up by buying out my contract and have fulfilled the term.

 

THANKS

[dx100uk]

theres no legal claim yet and prob never will be.

 

 

its just a fleecing exercise

 

 

don't fall for it.

 

 

just remember

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

 

 

and has

 

 

NO SUCH LEGAL POWERS.

 

 

IMHO they are trying to spoof you.

 

 

dx

[Keyzer Soze]

O2 couldn't believe it either when A1 tried it with me. Their customer service people weren't very complimentary about A1 either. I nearly paid them, but held out and got two different people within the organisation to contradict each other on the phone. I then asked them to check their calls which they record for "training purposes" and they folded immediately. I don't know if they'll fall for that again.

 

One insisted on payment, another said if I could demonstrate that I had paid in full, they would chase the network.

[2Grumpy]

It's difficult to see how they could have incurred these losses by terminating the contract.

 

I thought that most of these organisations are intermediaries in setting up the contract.

 

It's possible that they were to get additional payments somehow. Their claims do see a little excessive ....

[caverncity]

Well just an update. Finally received a reply from my email/letter telling me the £360 was what they paid for the phone. They also said they would accept my offer of £120 which has been paid and account now closed. Time to move on I think!

[Keyzer Soze]

Ah well, live and learn. It certainly makes you a lot more careful about dealing with 3rd parties and also about reading t's and c's.

 

Think I'll buy phones outright and get sim only deals in future.

[renegotiation]

Does anyone know what the deal is between this company and the phone networks? I guess that they source and pay for all of the promotional handsets themselves? Roughly how much do they get from the phone networks, proportionally speaking, and when do they get it? Just curious.

[renegotiation]

I do need some advice and started a new thread here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?447375-BuyMobilephones.net.&p=4748529#post4748529

[Jonas65]

I have had a simlar demand but for £567 for a cotract I have just paid off. The contarct was taken out 20months ago with an Iphone. I decided to cancel due to crap coverage and settled the remainder of the contract with EE.

 

Then out of the blue I got a "Letter of demand" rang them up and they said ots for loss of comission.

 

and that it is in the contract.

 

SPoke to the solictor and the terms and conditions they sent are titled EE's terms and conditions....and I have not actually enetered a contract with Affordabal Mobiles. Solicitor said unless they can prove I am in contratc with them and that they have sent and more importanly I have recived those terms and conditons that they can basically go forth.

 

Just sent them an email stating the facts in reply and look forward to a reply.

 

Solicitor said they can try all sorts of tricks but any loss of comission by you paying off the entire contract is not you problem.

 

Also if they dont prove any contract to ignore the letters and worse case they cant send the balifs , without going to courth and you can attend and challenge it so its dismissed.

 

So standing my ground