Redwood/harwoods - school fees. Claimforn received - *** Settled by Tomlin Order* **

[BazzaS]

Is the debt secured by a charging order?.

Normally this would prevent them going for bankruptcy.

 

However, if this was as part of a Tomlin order (TO) that you have now breached, they can go after you for:

a) breach of contract (the TO being a contract), or

b) the original process halted by the TO.

 

The may have to release the charge to persue a bankruptcy, but could do this if you breached the TO.

 

Are they just threatening this though?. The charging order guarantees them the sum held as a charge, (eventually, provided there is equity in the property) while insolvency proceedings adds the risk to them that they get only a proportion of the sum.

 

Would the realise the whole sum if they went down the insolvency route? If not, this may give you leverage.

[Ironic]

The Tomlin Order was before any charge was done, and yes they came after me for full outstanding amount once I breached the TO.

This then led to me securing the full amount against the house.

 

My point is the debt was secured at that point,

they registered the charge and still pursued bankruptcy route

- which they couldn't legally do?

 

Additionally they were asked by my solicitor when house was sold what was the full and final amount needed to settle this matter.

 

Got figure and made that payment so clearing the full amount of debt

- now have been hit with costs that apparently weren't in the figure and shouldn't even exist as they couldn't legally get bankruptcy order as illegal therefore 'costs' are totally spurious and a complete spoofing!

[BazzaS]

Did a judge rule on that (the SD / bankruptcy on a secured debt)?

Are they going for the secured sum, or is there an unsecured amount (over £5000) that they are using for the insolvency route??

 

(I'm wondering if they may be going for a bankruptcy over an unsecured sum to avoid trying for an order for sale for the property they have a charge over : they get the bankruptcy, the property then gets sold and the Trustee in Bankruptcy has to repay them the secured sum .......)

 

Edit : Ahh, you've updated your post to note the property has already been sold and the charge repaid, and these are new / unsecured demands.

[Ironic]

No a judge hasn't ruled on SD

The whole debt has been paid from house sale proceeds

The outstanding issue is their 'costs'

[dx100uk]

They can't!!

And sadly you've been had blind here by allowing the CO

You should have cone here as soon as the TO failed

[Ironic]

yes I have been chasing around and not thinking clearly so yes I agree - now need to deal with it properly and get it put to bed once and for all - so asking for help as have been a muppet

[AndyOrch]

I think we need more information on this hearing and the costs claim Ironic......what paperwork do you have in connection to this costs ?

 

Andy

[Ironic]

The costs are for solicitors, letters written, telephone calls, work done on documents fees, court fees, advocates fees, process server fee (which we never had served and confirmed in writing by solicitors) counsel's fees. So pretty much normal solicitor's practise of charging for everything!

 

Given that there wasn't really anything for them to do once debt secured on house can I counter claim for them wasting my time which I expended by preparing for court and attending etc etc?

[AndyOrch]

As the court granted their costs?

[Ironic]

No they haven't as yet the judge has said,

and I cant remember the exact wording,

that they can be discussed

 

- which was when they 'plucked a figure from thin air'

and which is on top of the full and final settlement figure they gave my solicitor over the house sale.

 

When you say they can't why exactly are you saying that please,?

[AndyOrch]

No they haven't as yet the judge has said, and I cant remember the exact wording, that they can be discussed - which was when they 'plucked a figure from thin air' and which is on top of the full and final settlement figure they gave my solicitor over the house sale.

 

Then dont pay it until advised by the court..then request a detailed assessment.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part-47-procedure-for-detailed-assessment

[Ironic]

Fair point will study the link but I am still bemused how they can charge fees for something they couldn't do anyway! Will also see if can counter claim as well, thanks

[AndyOrch]

What they charge is irrelevant until a court decides its valid

[Ironic]

How can I 'assist' them to decide it isn't valid?

[AndyOrch]

I wouldn't do anything until the Costs is delivered by way of a Court Order..then refer to my last link

[Ironic]

The questions I have are:

 

1) Could the claimants try and make me bankrupt when the debt was secured by a charge on property as requested?

 

2) If the answer to 1 is no,

then how can they be charging any costs when they have had nothing to do as the charge was there, although they continuously claimed that they didn't have a charge on the place even though it was there and visible, so therefore they shouldn't have any charges to hit me with should they?

 

3) Given the two above points, should the courts review this as surely it shouldn't have been allowed to get to the point it did, and also it led to issues with regard to my business being disqualified from being awarded a large contract as I had to declare any such issues.

 

Thank you

[AndyOrch]

The questions I have are:

 

1) Could the claimants try and make me bankrupt when the debt was secured by a charge on property as requested? its a possible option but I doubt it ..the same a statuary demands..you cant issue a demand if the debt is already secured

 

2) If the answer to 1 is no,

then how can they be charging any costs when they have had nothing to do as the charge was there, although they continuously claimed that they didn't have a charge on the place even though it was there and visible, so therefore they shouldn't have any charges to hit me with should they? see my post #115

 

3) Given the two above points, should the courts review this as surely it shouldn't have been allowed to get to the point it did, and also it led to issues with regard to my business being disqualified from being awarded a large contract as I had to declare any such issues.That should be dealt with by your actions whether to instigate your own claim...you would have to disclose documentary evidence of loss of buisness

 

Oh and also what options do I have and what should I do to resolve/counter claim etc this issue to finally get it done and dusted? see above

 

 

Thank you

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Ironic]

'Could the claimants try and make me bankrupt when the debt was secured by a charge on property as requested? its a possible option but I doubt it ..the same a statuary demands..you cant issue a demand if the debt is already secured'

 

This didn't stop them before when they had a charge on the property yet still pursued the bankruptcy - which I didn't think was legal?

[AndyOrch]

Bankruptcy is just one of many methods used to execute a judgment..along with Charging Orders...Third Party Debt Orders..Attachment of Earnings Order.

 

You are correct in saying that the charging order was in place...this secures their judgment...but they can utilise other methods on top if they feel that their payment will never materialise ..there is no law that states you can only use one option.....although the judgment claimant would have to throw even more money at recouping and may appear to be unreasonable and desperate to pursue multiple methods of execution.