23 months-constructive dismissal?

[SabreSheep]

OK ill rephrase

 

a company can still dismiss you during your notice period

 

they can also put on any reference, "resigned during disciplinary procedures"

[renegadeimp]

If you hand in the resignation, youve pretty much just admitted guilt and dont want to face the consequences. Any reference given by them would reflect that you resigned while under investigation for racist abuse or whatever they decide to discipline you with.

[CrappoMan]

a company can still dismiss you during your notice period

 

I'll say again: Why are the company instigating disciplinary procedures against someone with less than 24 months service ? Why not just dismiss them ?

[steampowered]

To be honest they can put anything they want in a reference. If you have another job, and that job is fully secured, I would just resign.

[SparklesJD]

I'll say again: Why are the company instigating disciplinary procedures against someone with less than 24 months service ? Why not just dismiss them ?

 

It might still be wrongful even if not unlawful if the disciplinary procedure forms part of the company's contract of employment, i.e. they would be in breach of contract.

 

 

I would imagine that they'll probably accept OP's resignation and move on - there isn't a lot more they can do if one party dissolves the contract. The majority of companies just use a standard reference, i.e. 'x was employed as, dates, then resigned' as they're worried about putting the wrong thing.

 

OP could always ask what they'd do in that situation. They might agree to a neutral reference, disciplinary proceedings take a lot of management time and cost, unless they feel that they want to take it through to dismissal on principle obviously.

 

(BTW - although I'm a corporate poster, I don't work in employment law, so I'm not posting as a professional in this thread.)

Edited January 8, 2015 by SparklesJD
Added disclaimer.

[shywazz]

Reading your thread, which I can relate to, to some extent... Putting all to one side, if you have secured another job, and are truly not happy at this company, then I would give your letter to resign in before the hearing, least that way you leave without a bad thing on your working record, and will get some sort of reference from the company should you need one, ON the other hand, going by your last thread, it seems you have dough's about leaving, then attending the meeting is a must, through all this you haven't mentioned whether you are a union member or have got advice from somewhere like ACAS who help on employment issues/matters. The company will look at your record from starting, and will take any good reference's into account when making there decisions, I know of employees who have made physical threats, verbally abused colleagues, made racist comments, and have just got final written warnings, very severe cases have resulted in dismissal, but I do mean severe, lessons will be learnt from such on all sides, but should you want to stay within the company, then attend the meeting, and take what action they give you on the chin, you could always get the person you made the remarks to, to give you a written reference, this will look great in the meeting, and will show you both have accepted your actions, corrected them and continue to be colleagues.

[Limelight1985]

Well, I went to the hearing on Friday, and am awaiting the decision: I'll be told when I go in tomorrow AM.

 

 

The hearing went very well: I took in a colleague who has also had issues with the designer I have locked horns with.

I did not speak to my colleague really, apart from going over to see him between xmas and NY when he agreed to accompany me.

 

 

But completely off his own back, after reading my defence statement, he effectively confirmed that the designer is the problem here, and not myself (or the other 5 or so people who have issues with him).

 

 

This really changed the tone of the hearing, even though madam consistently tried to find a glimmer of light to reinforce her case.

My defence was water-tight, basically: I was apologetic and 100% co-operative. I held my hands up to the racist remark, assured then there would be no repeats, etc, highlighted all the positives of my last 2 years, and pointed out all the other gross misconduct-able incidents that have gone un-punished.

 

 

Now, if they do still fire me, at least it will 100% confirm my suspicions about her wanting me out......

 

 

I'm expecting a FWW, but knowing this lot, I'll probably be back at home by 8:30 tomorrow morning...!

[SabreSheep]

just remember, a dismissal at this stage would not be the end of the road.

 

You are entiteld an appeal

[Limelight1985]

Hmm...well, that's yet another issue with this situation, I'm afraid...

 

 

The top of the tree is, literally, "The Daddy". He is MD.

 

 

Daughter is a director, and I think "The Mummy" is a co-director.

 

 

So..my hearing was chaired by daughter and mummy: the only course of appeal is daddy....

 

 

Do you honestly think I'm going to get a fair hearing...?

 

 

This is the thing that's is SO frustrating here.

 

 

In any "normal", larger company, if this was a mid-management issue, I could go to someone more senior, and most likely impartial, with the interests of the company as a primary objective, but as this is a small family business, I have nowhere to go....

 

 

..other than, maybe, a third party?

I have talked to ACAS about "mediation", but this needs to be with consent of employer.

"Arbitration" is not an option, as I need the 2 years and it usually precedes a tribunal....?

 

 

My thinking is, though, that if I do get fired, then why bother messing around with "afters"? I'm better off just moving on and forgetting the sorry situation, surely..?! ;-)

 

 

BTW, as it stands, I'm still suspended on full pay, as a decision has yet to be made...

[Pusillanimous]

Just walk away.

 

To just modify this, negotiate with them. Tell them you accept the outcome but could they please agree a reference with you if you resign quietly.

[ssparks2003]

Why not just walk? with the comments that you have made on this thread it is clear that you have no respect for the company, its owners, its management, its staff, its methods of working etc etc etc. Even if they decide you were not guilty of racist behavour, you will never have any respect for the company or the people so why stay? you are obviously much better at everything than they are; you should go somewhere that your obvious tallents would be welcomed with open arms.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Why not just walk? with the comments that you have made on this thread it is clear that you have no respect for the company, its owners, its management, its staff, its methods of working etc etc etc. Even if they decide you were not guilty of racist behavour, you will never have any respect for the company or the people so why stay? you are obviously much better at everything than they are; you should go somewhere that your obvious tallents would be welcomed with open arms.

 

Yes, agreed. You need to move on and find somewhere you can be happy. Alternatively, why not build a company from the ground up, putting all your hard earned money into it, and become their competitor.

 

Yes, I thought so.

 

Find a new job and keep your head down would be my advice.

[Limelight1985]

Why not just walk? with the comments that you have made on this thread it is clear that you have no respect for the company, its owners, its management, its staff, its methods of working etc etc etc. Even if they decide you were not guilty of racist behavour, you will never have any respect for the company or the people so why stay? you are obviously much better at everything than they are; you should go somewhere that your obvious tallents would be welcomed with open arms.

 

 

Oh no: the staff are great, don't get me wrong...!

 

 

The rest of it? You've hit the nail on the head..... ;-)

[Limelight1985]

A quick update....

 

 

I went for the hearing, they basically took no notice of the explanation / new evidence, and I was fired on the following Tuesday.

 

 

It is 100% clear that the outcome of the hearing was pre-determined.......but, to be honest, I'm glad to be out of it....

 

 

I have spoken with 2 solicitors, one officially, and the other "off the record": both, given all the facts reckon that I was treaded unfairly and, at most, should have received a warning of some sort.....

 

 

But, as I say, life is too short: I've already moved on and have earned more money in the last 2 weeks on contracts than I would have earned had I still had my job!! win:win...! ;-)

 

 

Also, I'm in the process of finalising a product with a view to bringing it to market......

 

 

And yes...IT IS in direct competition with my ex-employer...

 

 

(didn't someone mention that earlier?

 

 

Oh, they were being SARCASTIC..?)

 

 

Thx for all you advice....

[steampowered]

That's great news, well done!

 

As mentioned you may be able to claim unfair dismissal if the notice period would take you over 2 years. But if you are focussed with your new job it might not be worth the distraction and the stress, it may be better just to enjoy your new role.