Reading London Street (Northern Section) Charge Certificate - No PCN received prior to this

[ajayms1980]

Hello All,

 

I am new to the forum, please bear with the naivety if I didn't follow any forum rules.

 

On 9th November, I visited a friend who lives in reading.

 

 

Out of blue on 03/01/2015, I received a Charge Certificate for Bus Lane Contravention

- Being in Bus Lane (as defined in S.144(5) ) Transport Act 2000.

 

 

I never received any PCN or any time to challange.

This is the first communication I am getting.

 

Charge Certificate says that PCN was sent to you which gave you 28 days to pay the PENALTY CHARGE or challenge its issue.

 

 

Because payment in full has not been made within relevant period the amount of Penalty Charge has been increased by 50% (From £60 to £90).

 

 

I have 14 days to pay from Issue date of 2nd Jan.

 

On reading secure website gateway, they have photo, video as evidence.

An appeal button to appeal.

I called up council and they said you write a letter that you didn't receive PCN

and your charge of £90 will be frozen until council write back.

 

I have following queries or help:

 

> How to take this forward now.

 

> Any letter format or what formal representation or words to mention in letter.

 

> I have looked at Street View and it's on the road which says "Buses and Taxis Only" along with a sign post.

I clearly missed these signs while trying to find my way in Reading.

 

> It happened when you go from Duke Street to London Street (crossing Queens Road).

It looks it's only for buses and taxis to cross over Queens Road to further London Street.

 

> There is no Red Bus Lane which could have visibly told me to stay off. It's a single lane with no red layout.

 

Please help. I will post this Charge Certificate and Street view and evidence given on reading website after removing private details if it helps.

 

Thanks

AJ

[ajayms1980]

I want to put streetview link but not allowed as it says post count should be greater than 10. I am attaching photographs provided by Reading Council on their website along with street view screenshot.

 

I went straight from Duke Street to London Street, crossing Queens Road yellow box into London Street. There is a CCTV camera on other side of Queens Road which I think took the picture.

 

pic1,2 are by Reading council. Pic3 is where my car would have been before crossing the yellow box, pic 4 is of camera which took footage (my bad luck if was pointing to front on that day).

 

Thanks

AJ

Edited January 5, 2015 by ajayms1980

[Guest]

yeah, seems shld've turned left prior to the junct'n into queens road re 'all traffic' instead of going straight ahead. seems clearly marked.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4536583,-0.9684113,3a,90y,170.36h,90.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ssPwOpgqxEQyEj8QKCVf2Wg!2e0

 

seems then whether they have followed correct procedure re the ticket issue?

[ajayms1980]

Thank you ford.

 

The problem is I never received PCN. It looks Reading Council might be doing it regularly as there is one more case of directly receiving CC instead of PCN or any option to contest. It may be they never posted the PCN hopefully.

 

I am not allowed to put the links as I have less than 10 post else would provide link to a legislation mentioned in my writeup below.

 

I am planning to write to them (asking to cancel CC based on following legislation 34.2(a)) but will need expert help to formulate it to discourage them:

 

 

 

 

Does following wording make sense:

 

====================

I am writing to you with regards to the above Charge Certificate received via post on the 03/01/2015 dated 02/01/2015 (Copy attached). The charge certificate states that the offence was committed on 09/11/2014 and PCN was sent to you which gave you 28 days to pay the PENALTY CHARGE or challenge its issue. Because payment in full has not been made within relevant period the amount of Penalty Charge has been increased by 50%.

 

I would like to inform you that I NEVER received any Notification from Reading Council prior to this charge certificate. I require forthwith that you to cancel Charge Certificate based on [statutory Instrument 2005 No. 2757 Part 6 Regulation 34.2(a) "The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005"] which states "did not receive the penalty charge notice in question" as I NEVER received any PCN or any communication prior to this.

 

Since I NEVER received any notification from Reading Council, It will be very unfair and unjust to issue Charge Certificate without providing any PCN or opportunity to challenge it's issue. It is also important to note that the said offence was committed in November 2014; I would like to know the date the Penalty Charge Notice was sent to me with evidence and be given enough time to challenge this if I choose to do so.

======================

 

 

Does it make sense to add this Legislation text as this is 2005 and may have been changed. Also it belongs to person making Statutory Declaration? Or will it aggravate the situation?

 

 

Any help formulating a reply to this charge Certificate will help.

 

 

Thanks

AJK

[Guest]

for ref eg

http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/buslanecontraventions.pdf

 

para 34 etc. have you rec'd a cty court order re enforcement?

 

re a googly, dont know if this link is allowed, http://www.penaltychargenotice.co.uk/bus-lanes/

[Guest]

info

http://beta.reading.gov.uk/article/2778/Bus-Lane-Enforcement

[ajayms1980]

Hello Ford,

 

I haven't received anything except this Charge Certificate and can see this evidence video and photograph on their secure gateway.

 

The only thing I am relying on is that they didn't send me PCN or given me any opportunity to challenge it. They straightaway sent CC dated 2nd Jan and I have 14 days to pay. After calling them they said you send a letter that you didn't receive PCN and your increase charge will be frozen to £90 only until Council write back to you.

 

This council has done this to another person who has put a message on pepipoo. He also received CC instead of receiving PCN directly.

 

Writing to them is first opportunity for me to discourage them to take it further and trying to find any grounds to mention. I am going though this penaltychargenotice link.

 

Thanks

AJ

[ajayms1980]

Gone through the link of Reading council, I didn't know actual find was £30 increased to £90, all due to unfair means of council not sending PCN and directly sending CC (that is what i suspect).

 

As per this, I can't even appeal or make formal representation.

[Guest]

As per this, I can't even appeal or make formal representation.

 

?

 

seems you can? their site says so.

you didnt receive a pcn, which wld be required prior to enforcement?

[Jamberson]

Have a read of this, specifically the parts near the bottom, "Registration of Debt" and "Statutory Declaration".

 

http://www.patas.gov.uk/tmaadjudicators/enforcement_buslane.htm

 

If they don't respond to your letter the way you want them to (which, by the way, is not a great letter - "I require forthwith" etc isn't going to earn you any good will) then you'll need to make a statutory declaration, as explained on the link.

[ajayms1980]

?

 

seems you can? you didnt receive a pcn?

 

Hello Ford,

 

I didn't receive anything except this letter. Also what Council say on phone is contradicting what it says on website.

 

Looking at Reading Website, it says following:

 

======

When first issued, you have 14 days in which to pay the ticket at a discounted rate of £30.

 

After 14 days of the date of issue of the PCN, you lose the right to pay the discounted sum. The 14 days starts with the date on which the PCN was served. The full charge of £60 becomes due after the 14 days.

 

After 28 days of the date of service of the PCN, a Charge Certificate may be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle, notifying the keeper that the charge has been increased by 50%, up to £90. If you receive a Charge Certificate, you must pay within 14 days. There is no right to appeal at this stage.

 

After 14 days of the date of the Charge Certificate, the debt will be registered at the Traffic Enforcement Centre and a registration fee of £7 added to the charge, taking the total amount payable up to £97.

 

After 21 days after the Debt Registration, if the charge has not been paid or a statutory declaration has not been made, the Traffic Enforcement Centre will grant authority for a warrant to be issued and a certificated bailiff will be requested to recover the debt from you. The Enforcement Agent (formerly known as bailiffs) will charge you for this.

=======

 

Based on this, once CC is issues I will not be allowed any appeal. As this is the only letter I got, after talking to Council Customer Service Representative, she said you write a letter that I didnt receive PCN and it will be frozen until council write back and give you another 14 days to pay.

 

These both things are contradicting. Also, If I don't pay and it goes to TEC, does that affect my credit rating if decision is against me and I have to pay up???

 

What I find outrageous is that £30 fine allowed raised to £90 and then receiving a CC. It looks it's a deliberate attempt. Also another person in same boat and this council quite famous for fleecing motorist.

 

Thanks

Ajay

[Guest]

but you didnt receive the pcn? so the rest cant follow.

also, can then do a stat declaration accordingly if enforcement.

and, they have asked for your reps.

[ajayms1980]

but you didnt receive the pcn, so the rest cant follow.

also, can then do a stat declaration re enforcement.

and, they have asked for your reps.

 

I will ask for original PCN but going through web, very unlikely I will get it. Also CC is the final stage before it goes to TEC.

 

Looking at web, for this council, my guess is they will come up with discount to pay in 14 days. It looks their strategy to wind up motorists.

[Jamberson]

Ayjams - did you see my post (post 10, above)? It's the answer to your query.

[Guest]

I will ask for original PCN but going through web, very unlikely I will get it. Also CC is the final stage before it goes to TEC.

 

Looking at web, for this council, my guess is they will come up with discount to pay in 14 days. It looks their strategy to wind up motorists.

 

 

yes, if they can show one was issued....?

 

see jambersons link also.

[ajayms1980]

yes, if they can show one was issued....?

 

see jambersons link also.

 

Thank you jamberson and ford.

@jamberson I missed that post. I will go through the link. Also this require forthwith, I picked up from a forum. I will change to "request".

 

Thanks a lot for replying.

[ajayms1980]

Thank you jamberson and ford.

@jamberson I missed that post. I will go through the link. Also this require forthwith, I picked up from a forum. I will change to "request".

 

Thanks a lot for replying.

 

Morning,

 

@jamberson - I have gone through the link. I understand now that I need to wait for "Order of Recovery for unpaid penalty charge notice" along with Witness statement.

 

Does following letter make sense, any changes??? I have made it bit polite and myself.

 

============

=========

To

 

The Officer 06/01/2015

Reading Borough Council BL

PO Box 3012

Reading

RG19RZ

 

Subject: Request for cancellation of Charge Certificate for

Vehicle Registration – XXXX and Penalty Charge Notice Number – XXXX

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I am xxx, a resident of XXXX. I have received Charge Certificate dated XXX on XXX (attached herewith) for vehicle (Reg. – XXX, PCN – XXX) which states date of contravention as XXX.

 

This Charge Certificate states that a PCN was sent to you which gave you 28 days to pay this PENALTY CHARGE or challenge its issue. Because payment in full has not been made within the relevant period the amount of the Penalty Charge has been increased by 50%.

 

I would like to inform you that I NEVER received any notification or any communication from Reading Council prior to receiving this Charge Certificate. As result, I was not provided any PCN/notification or any opportunity to challenge its issue. This is the very first communication I received from Reading Council. After talking to your department, I was advised to write a letter to you about not receiving any prior notification.

 

Going through web, I came across one more member of public who has been issued Charge Certificate without receiving any prior Notification from Reading Council. This could have been a genuine Administrative error at Reading Council end or postal end but it has caused me great amount of stress.

 

I would like to request you to:

 Cancel this Charge Certificate as this is the only communication I am getting from Reading Council.

 Provide me with copy of Original PCN along with date when it was issued and evidence it was posted.

 Provide me with any other notification prior to this charge certificate

 

If Council decide NOT to cancel Charge Certificate out of Statutory Process and “Order of Recovery” is issued, I will be left with only option to fill up Witness Statement to inform TEC that I was not provided any notification prior to this Charge Certificate. Also, I will notify them about same issue faced by other member of public as this may be an Administrative Error at your or postal end.

 

I would like to request you to provide these details as soon as possible. I am sending this letter as first class recorded so that it reaches you in time and no communication is lost.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

xxx

XXXX

 

=========

[ajayms1980]

Also came to know that for Bus Lane Contravention, it will be Statutory Declaration instead of Witness Statement. Little more hessel.

[Jamberson]

Morning,

 

@jamberson - I have gone through the link. I understand now that I need to wait for "Order of Recovery for unpaid penalty charge notice" along with Witness statement.

 

Does following letter make sense, any changes??? I have made it bit polite and myself.

 

============

=========

To

 

The Officer 06/01/2015

Reading Borough Council BL

PO Box 3012

Reading

RG19RZ

 

Subject: Request for cancellation of Charge Certificate for

Vehicle Registration – XXXX and Penalty Charge Notice Number – XXXX

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I am xxx, a resident of XXXX. I have received Charge Certificate dated XXX on XXX (attached herewith) for vehicle (Reg. – XXX, PCN – XXX) which states date of contravention as XXX.

 

This Charge Certificate states that a PCN was sent to you which gave you 28 days to pay this PENALTY CHARGE or challenge its issue. Because payment in full has not been made within the relevant period the amount of the Penalty Charge has been increased by 50%.

 

I would like to inform you that I NEVER received any notification or any communication from Reading Council prior to receiving this Charge Certificate. As result, I was not provided any PCN/notification or any opportunity to challenge its issue. This is the very first communication I received from Reading Council. After talking to your department, I was advised to write a letter to you about not receiving any prior notification.

 

Going through web, I came across one more member of public who has been issued Charge Certificate without receiving any prior Notification from Reading Council. This could have been a genuine Administrative error at Reading Council end or postal end but it has caused me great amount of stress.

 

I would like to request you to:

 Cancel this Charge Certificate as this is the only communication I am getting from Reading Council.

 Provide me with copy of Original PCN along with date when it was issued and evidence it was posted.

 Provide me with any other notification prior to this charge certificate

 

If Council decide NOT to cancel Charge Certificate out of Statutory Process and “Order of Recovery” is issued, I will be left with only option to fill up Witness Statement to inform TEC that I was not provided any notification prior to this Charge Certificate. Also, I will notify them about same issue faced by other member of public as this may be an Administrative Error at your or postal end.

 

I would like to request you to provide these details as soon as possible. I am sending this letter as first class recorded so that it reaches you in time and no communication is lost.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

xxx

XXXX

 

=========

 

Why don't you just say something like this:

 

 

Vehicle Registration – XXXX and Penalty Charge Notice Number – XXXX

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I received a Charge Certificate in respect of the above PCN. However I was not aware that the PCN had been issued, as I did not receive any prior correspondence on the matter.

 

I would like to appeal the PCN and, after speaking to your office, was advised to request in writing that you re-set the case in order that I may pursue the appeals route. If this is not possible, I will submit a Witness Statement in due course, but I think it would be easier for all parties if the case could be set back at this stage.

 

Please would you advise me on your decision,

 

Regards etc.

[ajayms1980]

Why don't you just say something like this:

 

 

Vehicle Registration – XXXX and Penalty Charge Notice Number – XXXX

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I received a Charge Certificate in respect of the above PCN. However I was not aware that the PCN had been issued, as I did not receive any prior correspondence on the matter.

 

I would like to appeal the PCN and, after speaking to your office, was advised to request in writing that you re-set the case in order that I may pursue the appeals route. If this is not possible, I will submit a Witness Statement in due course, but I think it would be easier for all parties if the case could be set back at this stage.

 

Please would you advise me on your decision,

 

Regards etc.

 

I sent it this morning. Lets see if they come back.

[ajayms1980]

Update: Council confirmed that received my letter and it's in a queue to be dealt with and as per them charge is frozen to £90 until further communication. (Royal Mail doesn't show proof of signature though).

[ajayms1980]

Sorry logged in a duplicate post, so removing it here as not sure how to delete a duplicate post

[ajayms1980]

Finally received a letter from Reading Council. Reading Council will cancel the current PCN and re-issue new one so that proper procedure is followed.

 

So charge certificate stand cancelled at the moment. I wish they just go away.

[Guest]

so they acknowledge incorrect procedure, but can get away with it with a reissue? wld go back to the beginning then?

[ajayms1980]

so they acknowledge incorrect procedure, but can get away with it with a reissue? wld go back to the beginning then?

 

Yes, they say we will reissue PCN so that I get a chance to appeal. That is what this letter says in 3 lines.

 

Thank you all for support. Lets see what they do next.

 

On tuesday (before I had received this letter), I had sent another letter (as advised on phone by them) to them that I will be travelling away from home for 3 weeks and please don't write with in this time. I hope this letter don't make them more persistent. Although, they will take almost 4 weeks to look at it.