Capital2Coast FCN Lewes

[flippyspants]

Hi - i'm new here but i guess my story is anything but.

Any advice from you wise people would be very welcome.

 

On the 14th december i stopped outside the car boot sale in the middle of town in Lewes to get a coffee from the snack van.

I didn't even lock the car and was walking back to it maybe 3 mins later to find what i thought was a traffic warden issuing a ticket.

I said I was off, drove away and now,

 

 

ten days later I get a Fixed Charge Notice demanding £100 pounds, from a company called Capital2Coast.

if i pay within fourteen days of the notice

(is that when I got the letter or the 'date of contravention'?)

I get a reduction to £60. Oh and there's a £1.75 card surcharge if I pay over the web...

 

I quote -

 

"The driver of the vehicle is liable for a fixed charge notice in the above amount which,

 

 

at the date of this notice, remains unpaid in full and for which the balance due remains unpaid.

 

A Fixed Charge Notice was affixed to the windscreen of the vehicle at the time of the contravention

or sent throughout the post to the registered keeper.

 

 

This charge relates to the period of parking that immediately preceded the issue of that Notice,

the charge having been incurred for the reason as stated above

and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the driver by clear signage in

and around the site in and around the site at the time of parking."

 

The letter shows a photo of my vehicle from the rear, presumably taken as I was reversing,

and doesn't show the whole vehicle.

The 'Reason For Issue' is failure to display a valid permit.

 

As far as I can tell, this is public land,

but I'm not sure, it's to the side of Laura Ashley, not the front, if anyone knows the area.

 

 

Anyway, it seems extremely unreasonable to me.

 

I'll go and have a look at the site to see what the notices say tomorrow.

 

Any thoughts?

[dx100uk]

if it says Fixed Charge Notice

its a private speculative invoice

must be private land not local authority controlled.

 

 

moved to the private parking forum.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?437917-Capital2coast-PPC&highlight=Capital2Coast

[ericsbrother]

It certainly wont be railway land and it isnt the local authority

so not a parking fine as such

so your concern is whether the company has a contract to manage parking at that site.

 

They have sent the demand in accordance to para 8 of the PoFA

and as it was a ticket written out by one of their employees that is the wrong bit of legislation.

 

 

I would respond by saying that "the vehicle was never parked in that location at that or any other time,

the driver was performing a reversing manoeuvre and no such contravention occurred

and that you put it to strict proof that the vehicle was parked in breach of any contract".

 

 

Then say that in any case the NTK is not compliant with the PoFA as the time for serving a notice to the keeper

for a vehicle which has had a ticket attached to it as claimed has not been adhered to.

 

They want to muddy the waters over which bit of the legislation they can use so stick to hammering para 9 as that is the applicable requirement.

 

Where you stopped is part of a shopping development that has signage saying permit holders only.

 

 

As far as I can see the signs are non-compliant with the PoFA so no contract can be properly be offered and considered.

That is an argument for later on amongst others.

[armadillo71]

They claim a NTD was issued, but ten days later a NTK was received.

 

They can't have it both ways.

 

Failure to display a valid permit means that a NTD should have been stuck to the windscreen, but as you drove off they couldn't.

So they have a photo of your reg and have got keeper details from the DVLA.

All wrong...

 

You can send one letter stating that ;

 

' As Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 has not been followed, then as registered keeper I am not liable for the charge.

Address all further correspondence to the driver of the vehicle at the time of event.

I am under no obligation to name the driver of the vehicle at the time of event.

No further correspondence will be entered into.

This has been sent with proof of postage. '

 

Get free proof of postage from post office and ignore all further begging letters you will receive...

 

Do not ignore a LBA from C2C or their solicitors. Come back for advice.

[flippyspants]

Hi - thanks for such fast replies!

 

I'm a little lost in the jargon though. What is an NTD verses an NTK? Neither terms appear on the letter? Sorry if I'm being stupid.

 

but basically the advice is to reply as per armadillo71 (thanks btw), then see if they push it as far as the small claims court. Does that not pose a risk, in that if I had to fight that I'd have to pay the fine and then costs?

[armadillo71]

Hi - thanks for such fast replies!

 

I'm a little lost in the jargon though. What is an NTD verses an NTK? Neither terms appear on the letter? Sorry if I'm being stupid.

 

but basically the advice is to reply as per armadillo71 (thanks btw), then see if they push it as far as the small claims court. Does that not pose a risk, in that if I had to fight that I'd have to pay the fine and then costs?

 

Read the thread in my signature under the big red word abbreviations, for an explanation of , er , abbreviations used...

 

The POFA 2012 allows for the keeper to be held liable for parking charges if certain criteria are followed.

 

C2C have not followed these criteria, so can only chase the driver... And they do not know who that is.

[flippyspants]

all good - now I think i understand.

 

any more thoughts on my point about the risk of a LBA?

[ericsbrother]

the aim of the exercise for them is to get money out of you, not lose money by being reckless with court actions.

 

 

What is likely to happen is they will write to you again and may try other methods if they think you are ignornat of procedure

so by writing to them in no uncertain terms that they are wrong and that you arent going to be intimidated into paying them

they will give up pretty quicly.

 

 

They may pay a DCA such as Debt Recovery Plus £15 to send you some scary letters

but they have no powers to do anything so can be freely ignored.

 

 

Whatever you do, dont speak to these people on the telephone, keep it all wriiten down so you have a copy of everything.

[flippyspants]

hi again - so i've been trawling through schedule 4 and i think i can convince myself that they haven't met the time criterion of para 9, which is the one that applies as a ntd was not issued, only a ntk. (Para 8 is for when both are issued, correct?) So by my understanding they only have 14 days (not working days, right? just days) to issue the ntk.

 

so i quote para 9.5-6;

 

The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

 

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

 

The alleged 'contravention' occurred on the 14th dec, which gives them until the end of the 28th december to deliver the ntk to me. The ntk was issued - according to the notice - on the 23rd. So the above wording says that the notice is to be assumed delivered on the second working day after being sent - day one is christmas eve, then there are four non-working days - which would only leave Monday 29th, or a day too late. in fact we got the letter on or after the 31st - we were away seeing relatives.

 

so it looks like i have them on that at least.

 

but apart from that i can't find anything else wrong, unless the notices on the site do not comply. I went there this afternoon. there is one sign, at least 7 feet off the ground. luckily i am tall so i could just about read it - and it says'

 

 

WARNING

PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY

 

THIS LAND IS PRIVATE PROPERTY AND IS PATROLLED AT ALL TIMES

BY CAPITAL 2 COAST. BY PARKING HERE WITHOUT A

VALID PARKING PERMIT/TICKET CLEARLY ON DISPLAY lN THE

FRONT WINDOW SCREEN OR NOT BEING PARKED WHOLLY

WITHIN A MARKED BAY (IF APPLICABLE)

YOU ARE CONTRACTUALLY AGREEING TO BE

ISSUED WITH AFIXED CHARGE NOTICE OF £100.00 PAYABLE WITHIN

28 DAYS OF ISSUE. THE FIXED CHARGE NOTICE WILL BE REDUCED

BY 40% TO £60.00 IF PAID NO LATER THAN 14 DAYS OF ISSUE.

FAILURE TO PAY THE FIXED CHARGE NOTICE WILL

RESULT IN THE REGISTERED KEEPERS DETAILS BEING REQUESTED

FROM THE DVLA AND THE DEBT PASSED TO OUR LEGAL

REPRESENTATIVES, WITH ADDITIONAL ADMINISTRATION CHARGES

ADDED/AND POSSIBLE COURT PROCEEDINGS WITH FURTHER

COSTS INVOLVED UNDER THE PROTECTION OF FREEDOMS ACT 2012

IF THE FIXED CHARGE NOTICE REMAINS UNPAID OR UNCHALLENGED THE REGISTERED KEEPER MAY BECOME LIABLE FOR THE CHARGE

 

ONE PARKING LIMITED TRADING AS CAPITAL 2 COAST PARKING MANAGEMENT

 

SUITE 220 REGENCY HOUSE, 91 WESTERN ROAD, BRIGHTON AND HOVE CITY, BN1 2LB.

0844 879 7994

 

is there anything wrong with this?

 

 

many thanks as ever...

[f16]

IF the NTD was put on your windscreen. They have to deliver the NTK between 29 and 56 days of the event.

Not before and not after.

 

You received the NTK 10 days after the "offence"

 

They obtained the keepers details from the DVLA when they had no right to do so.

 

They can't touch you. ... "Bob Hope no hope"

[flippyspants]

thanks - but no ntd was attached, so that doesn't that mean those rules don't apply?

 

as far as i can see it classifies as 'remotely sensed' and for that they have to deliver a ntk within 14 days, which they failed to do.

 

there was def no ticket issued at the scene...

[flippyspants]

ok, so I think I will send this, if you think it's ok.

 

details etc… then,

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I hereby dispute this so-called ‘charge’, not only because no such ‘contravention’ occurred, but also because the charge as issued does not fulfill the criteria of Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012.

 

Just one example of why this is so should be sufficient;

 

Since no parking ticket, or Notice to Driver, was issued, the ‘charge’ falls under paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012.

 

This clearly states that for the Registered Keeper to become liable for the charge, the keeper must be notified within 14 days, or in this case, 28/12/2014 . The NTK was issued on the 23/12/2014. By the Schedule 4 rules, laid out in Paragraph 9.5-6, delivery of said notice is assumed to have occurred 2 working days after the sending of the notice. Those 2 working days are 24/12/2014 and 29/12/2014, since the intervening days are all not working days as defined by the schedule.

 

In fact the notice was received on the 31st of December, but it any case it was received more than 14 days after the event. Thus the Creditor has failed to comply with the terms of the legislation and the charge must be dropped.

 

Yours sincerely,

[armadillo71]

 

 

I said I was off, drove away and now,

 

 

ten days later I get a Fixed Charge Notice demanding £100 pounds, from a company called Capital2Coast.

if i pay within fourteen days of the notice

(is that when I got the letter or the 'date of contravention'?)

I get a reduction to £60. Oh and there's a £1.75 card surcharge if I pay over the web...

 

I quote -

 

"The driver of the vehicle is liable for a fixed charge notice in the above amount which,

 

 

at the date of this notice, remains unpaid in full and for which the balance due remains unpaid.

 

A Fixed Charge Notice was affixed to the windscreen of the vehicle at the time of the contravention

or sent throughout the post to the registered keeper.

 

 

This charge relates to the period of parking that immediately preceded the issue of that Notice,

the charge having been incurred for the reason as stated above

and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the driver by clear signage in

and around the site in and around the site at the time of parking."

 

The letter shows a photo of my vehicle from the rear, presumably taken as I was reversing,

and doesn't show the whole vehicle.

The 'Reason For Issue' is failure to display a valid permit.

 

 

How could anything be paid if this is the first notification of the charge?

 

The reason for issue can only be by someone looking at the windscreen...

 

I went there this afternoon. there is one sign, at least 7 feet off the ground. luckily i am tall so i could just about read it - and it says'

 

 

WARNING

PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY

 

THIS LAND IS PRIVATE PROPERTY AND IS PATROLLED AT ALL TIMES

BY CAPITAL 2 COAST. BY PARKING HERE WITHOUT A

VALID PARKING PERMIT/TICKET CLEARLY ON DISPLAY lN THE

FRONT WINDOW SCREEN OR NOT BEING PARKED WHOLLY

WITHIN A MARKED BAY (IF APPLICABLE)

YOU ARE CONTRACTUALLY AGREEING TO BE

ISSUED WITH AFIXED CHARGE NOTICE OF £100.00 PAYABLE WITHIN

28 DAYS OF ISSUE. THE FIXED CHARGE NOTICE WILL BE REDUCED

BY 40% TO £60.00 IF PAID NO LATER THAN 14 DAYS OF ISSUE.

FAILURE TO PAY THE FIXED CHARGE NOTICE WILL

RESULT IN THE REGISTERED KEEPERS DETAILS BEING REQUESTED

FROM THE DVLA AND THE DEBT PASSED TO OUR LEGAL

REPRESENTATIVES, WITH ADDITIONAL ADMINISTRATION CHARGES

ADDED/AND POSSIBLE COURT PROCEEDINGS WITH FURTHER

COSTS INVOLVED UNDER THE PROTECTION OF FREEDOMS ACT 2012

IF THE FIXED CHARGE NOTICE REMAINS UNPAID OR UNCHALLENGED THE REGISTERED KEEPER MAY BECOME LIABLE FOR THE CHARGE

 

ONE PARKING LIMITED TRADING AS CAPITAL 2 COAST PARKING MANAGEMENT

 

SUITE 220 REGENCY HOUSE, 91 WESTERN ROAD, BRIGHTON AND HOVE CITY, BN1 2LB.

0844 879 7994

 

is there anything wrong with this?

 

Yes. It states that you should have a permit in your windscreen, so can only be observed by someone on the ground... So a NTD should have been stuck on the windscreen.

 

many thanks as ever...

 

thanks - but no ntd was attached, so that doesn't that mean those rules don't apply?

 

as far as i can see it classifies as 'remotely sensed

 

No it does not.

 

and for that they have to deliver a ntk within 14 days, which they failed to do.

 

there was def no ticket issued at the scene...

 

 

Send the letter as I suggested previously. (post # 5)

 

This is an IPC member so there is no real independent appeals service.

 

But you, as RK are not liable anyway...

[flippyspants]

thanks - so what you are saying is that without a ntd, the whole thing is invalid. personally i think that is the case, but attacking them on the timescale is provable and demonstrable, so i feel that may be a safer option?

[armadillo71]

My advice is to send the one letter, with proof of postage.

 

' As the criteria of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 has not been followed, then as registered keeper I am not liable for this charge.

Please address all further correspondence to the driver of the vehicle at the time of event.

I am under no obligation to name the driver of the vehicle at the time of event.

No further correspondence will be entered into.*

Any further correspondence sent to myself as registered keeper, will be treated as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

This has been sent with proof of postage. '

 

You have the reasons why in the posts above.

 

There is no safer option.

[f16]

" Trust me on this one".

 

Follow armadillo71 and ericsbrother. .......

 

Get your name tag out of a tangle and send the letter

 

You will end up with the result of

[flippyspants]

ok super

 

thanks v much all

[ericsbrother]

as said, they are trying to use the wrong condition so have sent out their paperwork at the wrong time. They may try again but that doesnt make it correct.

[Billy's mate]

If they are claiming that they issued a NTD, then they must provide proof of that by something like photographic evidence of your car with the ticket on the windscreen. They cannot issue a ticket to a moving vehicle.

[Trailboy]

Hi folks,

 

 

Just wondering how this is progressing or not, any news since the letter was sent?

 

 

many thanks

 

TB