Help with starting a County Court claim for Charges on Argos card.

[Mike_hawk]

I suppose it could suggest that the claim was/is settled as there is no reference to processing of data...... but then does it excuse it from its obligations to the DPA? Its standard terms [assuming yours are] subject its activities to the following:

 

18.2 This agreement is governed by the Laws of England.

 

Does its settlement compromise its obligations to law [DPA 1998]?........ I doubt it thought that far ahead of the game and without a term specifially compromising the DPA it seems it's still a valid question

[Dot1]

So, do you suggest that I send the letter then?

[Mike_hawk]

Up to you......

 

All I can say is that your claim would remain live whatever the outcome of the PPI/Data string alone, ergo the other side would still have a case to answer regardless of whether the court decided to proceed on that matter. Its browbeating you into dropping the issue by attempting to conflate a monetary/equitable remedy with the underlying DPA issue.

 

The problem with defences bound up in bare denials is that they eventually become undone but they do require a vast amount of patience and tactical perseverance.

[Dot1]

Thank you so much.

 

The fight continues. I will send them the letter and wait for their response if any.

 

Dot

[Mike_hawk]

Seems sensible enough, don't forget to copy any 'open' dialogue to the court for filing in case you need to rely on it later.

[Dot1]

Thanks for clarifying that because I was also reasoning that the claim is not for PPI but for charges.

 

It never occurred to me that they would interpret that the claim was for PPI or the money received was for full and final payment especially where the acceptance letter clearly stated that it was in regards to PPI only.

 

Well, as you said if they decide to bring it then the Judge will decide.

 

Dot

[Mike_hawk]

To be fair, when the dj reads your statement of case he does so with a clear mind [or should do], utterly unbiased in attempting to understand the case at first glance, so its reasonable that the other side should play on the fact that the PPI issue is sort of dropped into a paragraph with no other commentary attached to it. in effect it is stating that it does not understand the case against it and its certainly not going to help you with any suggestion that other issues [DPA] may be effective on it.

 

Perhaps spend some time reviewing DPA cases, especially those concerned with s13 & s14 and the underlying principles

[Dot1]

Seems sensible enough, don't forget to copy any 'open' dialogue to the court for filing in case you need to rely on it later.

 

Thanks,

 

I will do that.

 

To be fair, when the dj reads your statement of case he does so with a clear mind [or should do], utterly unbiased in attempting to understand the case at first glance, so its reasonable that the other side should play on the fact that the PPI issue is sort of dropped into a paragraph with no other commentary attached to it. in effect it is stating that it does not understand the case against it and its certainly not going to help you with any suggestion that other issues [DPA] may be effective on it.

 

Perhaps spend some time reviewing DPA cases, especially those concerned with s13 & s14 and the underlying principles

 

Thanks,

 

Any case you can direct me to?

[Mike_hawk]

Try Halliday v Creation consumer finance as a starter,you'll find plenty of references therein. You could also look at Vidall Hall & ors v google Inc which gave effect to dis-applying the need to evidence pecuniary damage. Start on those 2 and you'll find plenty of case references which should support your claim.

[Dot1]

Thanks you.

 

I will go through those and check on others I may come across too.

 

Dot

[Mike_hawk]

Did it not settle any/all charges linked to the application of PPI or are these all addressed separately within your claim?

[Dot1]

Hi Mike,

 

It did settle part of it in terms of the PPI. There was a small difference. They were addresses separately within the claims. Two separate complaint were made to the defendant. They upheld PPI without accepting responsibility.They claimed to have refunded it as a goodwill gesture.

 

While a separate claim was for the charges which they refused to entertain as they claimed it was in line with their terms and condition.

 

In the offer they made, they wanted it to be f&f settlement to which it was refused as per the letter posted in an earlier post.

 

Their refusal to refund the charges led to this claim.

 

I have another thread for the PPI. Will post a link to it shortly.

 

Dot

[Dot1]

The PPI thread is under:

 

Help with claim for PPI on Argos card.

 

The difference was not much but it was clear to both parties that it was for PPI settlement only.

 

As per my previous post, they rejected the penalty charges.

 

I hope this addresses the question you raised.

 

Dot

[Mike_hawk]

Ah....... I can sort of understand what it's driving at. PPI redress is subject to 3 heads... Basic, Consequential and taxation

 

It believes that by your acceptance of its offer it has settled all 3 heads - Consequential being [in this instance] the effect of premiums on the standing of the account and whether any/all were directly linked to additional charges.

 

DISP 3 may assist, I think the court may be swayed by the other sides argument so it will be up to you to convince it that only the basic PPI redress was settled with no consideration given to consequential loss such as DISP 3.9.2 [other further losses]

 

https://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/DISP/App/3

 

It does not in itself provide you with cause but it should be persuasive enough to add some weight to your claim.

[Dot1]

Sorry about the delay in responding.

 

Thanks for pointing me in that direction. I did go through DISP 3 and found it to be useful. I will try to equip myself with anything relevant I can lay my hands on and hopefully it will help.

 

As for the disclosure, the court directed that it has to be in two weeks before the hearing.

 

What I wanted to find out is do I include them in the bundle or wait for the time when its required?

 

Thanks

 

Dot

[Mike_hawk]

Per Andy's post #127

 

Anything you wish to rely on should be disclosed per directions, including any authority. Obviously best not to hi-lite any paragraphs within transcript copies served or filed, let the other side identify its own weaknesses. Additionally where it has stated it will rely on x case/s, source a counter authority which undermines it.

[Dot1]

Thanks Mike.

 

I was trying to send you a PM but you seems to have exceeded your inbox limit.

 

Is it possible to check it please.

 

Hi Andy, Could you please have a look at my WS. Not sure if this OK.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Dot

 

 

 

CLAIM NO: xxxxxxx

 

IN MY COUNTY COURT

 

BETWEEN:

 

DOT

Claimant

-and-

 

RETAIL HOME GROUP (ARGOS)

Defendant

 

 

I, DOTof xx xx, London and Claimant in this case, do say the as follows:

I make this statement in support of my claim for money due under an agreement for the supply of goods and services. This statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

1. I applied for Argos Store Card from the defendant in January, 20xx and my application was accepted and the defendant issued the Claimant with Argos Store Card and advance credit facilities under a running credit account, Account number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx. ("The Account") to be used within Argos Stores.

 

2. During the life of the agreement, the defendant applied various penalty charges to my account ranging from £x.xx to £xx.xx as penalty charges. These charges were for, over the limit fee, Late payment fee, Return Cheques Fee, Return Direct Debit Fee and others totaling to £xxx.xx plus interest. (Exhibit C1).

 

3. The defendant mis-sold to me a Payment Protection Insurance (Coversafe), which was added to my account and a monthly premium charge ranging between £x.xx-£x.xx plus interest were applied to my account during the life of the agreement. (Exhibit C2).

 

4. The defendant closed my account for an alleged outstanding balance of £xxx.xx. I did not hear anything until 201x.

 

5. In 201x I received a letter from Lowell Portfollio1 Ltd informing me that they were assigned by Argos to collect the money owed under the agreement.

 

6. In XXXXX 201x, I made a Section 78 Request to Lowell Portfollio1 Ltd requesting for Notice of assignment, a true signed copy of Credit Agreement with terms and condition and statement of accounts. I paid the statutory fee too but never received everything except for a copy of an application form and some terms and conditions which were not related to the account in question but also ineligible. (Exhibit C4)

 

7. I also made the same request to the Defendant in XXXX 20xx, paid the statutory fee. (Exhibit C5)

 

8. In XXXXXX 20xx, I made a Data Subject Access Request to the Defendant to provide me with all the Data/ information they held on me and paid the statutory fee too. (Exhibit C6)

 

9. On xx XXXXX 20xx, I wrote to the defendant complaining about the mis-sale of Coversafe and I requested for full refund of the money taken towards insurance premium plus interest. I also enclosed the FOS PPI Questionnaire. (Exhibit C7 a&b)

 

10. I received an acknowledgement of my complaints from the defendant dated 0x September 2xxx regarding the Coversafe issues raised. In the letter, the Defendant enclosed a PPI Questionnaire form which I completed and posted back as instructed. The defendant wrote to me again in a letter dated xx September 20xx stating that the complaint was still being looked into and final response will be provided by xx xxxx 201x. (Exhibit C8 a&b)

 

11. I received a letter from the defendant dated xx XXXxr 201x rejecting my complaint for penalty charges and referring me to Ombudsman. (Exhibit C9)

 

12. The Defendant provided me with a copy of the Application Form I completed when I applied for the credit and statements of terms of agreement in a letter dated xx September 20xx in respond to my Section 78 Request. (Exhibit C10)

 

13. In a letter dated xxxxxx 20xx, the Defendant provided me with the some of the information I requested in my Data Subject Access Request but mainly statements of account from 20xx to 20xx. Also included was “GEMS ARCHIVE COPY STATEMENT REPORT” covering the entire period of the agreement and I discovered that there were a lot of penalty charges added to my account dating from 20xx to 20xx. (Exhibit C11)

 

14. I received a letter dated xx xxx xxx from the defendant stating that my PPI complaint has been upheld and made an offer totaling to £xxx.xx. The offer was made up of premium paid plus interest in regards to Payment Protection Insurance (Coversafe). Attached to the letter was terms and condition of accepting that the offer. It stated is that the offer was for full and final settlement of any claim against the defendant. An agreement was attached to the letter for me to sign. (Exhibit C12 a&b)

 

15. On xx xxxxx xxxx, I responded to the defendants offer letter and rejected it and requested that the decision is reviewed. (Exhibit C13)

 

16. On xxxxxxx 2xxx, I wrote a separate complaint letter to the defendant regarding the unfair charges applied to my account and requested full refund too plus compound interest. With the letter, I enclosed schedule of charges. (Exhibit C14 a&b)

 

17. On xx xxx 2xxx, I wrote the defendant again stating that I would only accept the offer as settlement for Payment Protection Insurance (Coversafe) but the penalty charges claim remains open. I did not sign the agreement provided by the defendant. (Exhibit C15)

 

18. I did not hear anything from the Defendant but received a cheque totaling to the sum of £xxx.xx from the defendant being refund of premium I paid plus associated interest and I cashed it. It was my understanding that the since the defendant did not did disagree with what I had stated in my letter, the payment was for PPI only and my claim for penalty charges still remained unresolved. (Exhibit C16)

 

19. On xx XXXXXX 20xx, I sent a Letter Before Action to the defendant and requested that the decision to refuse my claim for penalty charges be reviewed and refund me all the penalty charges applied plus compound interest. (Exhibit 17)

 

20. The defendant did not respond to my letter therefore I issued a claim against the defendant at the money claim Centre. (Exhibit C18)

 

21. I received acknowledgement from the defendant from court dated xx xxxx 2015(Exhibit C19)

 

22. Received Defendant’s defense dated xx xxxx 2014. (Exhibit C20)

 

23. Received notice of proposed Allocation from the Court dated xx xxx.

 

24. I sent a Part 18 Request for further information to the defendant representative on xxxxxxxx but did not get any reply. (Exhibit C21)

 

25. I sent another Part 18 Request for further information to the defendant representative on xx xxx 201x to which I did not get any response.

 

26. Received Notice of Allocation dated xxx xxx . (Exhibit C22)

 

27. I received a letter dated xx xxx 201x in regards to PPI Claim from the Defendant’s representative. (Exhibit C23)

 

28. I responded to the defendant’s representative letter regarding the PPI claim on xxxx 20xx. (Exhibit C24)

 

 

STATEMENT OF TRURTH

 

I confirm that this statement is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

Signed................................

 

 

Date……………………………………….

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Mike,

 

I was trying to send you a PM but you seems to have exceeded your inbox limit.

 

Is it possible to check it please.

 

Dot

 

Made a bit of space if you want to try again

[Dot1]

Thanks Mike,

 

Will do that.

 

Dot

[Mike_hawk]

You alternately refer to the charges as both unfair and a penalty, might be simpler to get the point across fairly early on in your ws referring to them as charges unfairly applied to the account as a consequence of the missold and now settled basic PPI premiums [assuming all were]. if any of them fall outside out that you could state that in the alternative you believe them to be penury in nature.

 

References to court process are not really relevant. Part 18 request is so keep that in

 

You are also making the case for an order under s.14 of the DPA 1998 so you need to make the court aware of why any data processing or publication of its opinion is inaccurate, when the inaccurate/unfair processing first occurred, if it persists and with which data processors [CRA's]

[Dot1]

Thanks ,

 

I will try and include those points and come back shortly.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Dot responding to your PM

 

I would agree with Mikes post ...you seem to lose your way from 19 onward..bar point 25...it requires assertion (which you do by referring to case law and mark as exhibit x) and conclusion...conclude with what you want the court to judge and award on.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Mike_hawk]

Just as a reminder...... this is how you referred to the charges in your soc, your statement should reflect that position

 

6. The default charges were applied in accordance with the standard terms of The Agreement which were:

a) A penalty payable on breach of contract and thus unenforceable: and

b) An unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (“The Regulations”) and therefore not binding on the Claimant.

[Dot1]

I have added the points you made but not sure of what to do next.

 

Dot

 

I, DOTof xx xx, London and Claimant in this case, do say the as follows:

I make this statement in support of my claim for money due under an agreement for the supply of goods and services. This statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

1. I applied for Argos Store Card from the defendant in January, 20xx and my application was accepted and the defendant issued the Claimant with Argos Store Card and advance credit facilities under a running credit account, Account number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx. ("The Account") to be used within Argos Stores.

 

2. During the life of the agreement, the defendant applied various unfair charges to my account ranging from £x.xx to £xx.xx as a consequence of the Payment Protection Mis-sold and now settled basic PPI premiums. I also believe that other charges applied to my account to be penury in nature. These charges were for, over the limit fee, Late payment fee, Return Cheques Fee, Return Direct Debit Fee and others totaling to £xxx.xx plus interest. (Exhibit C1).

3. The defendant mis-sold to me a Payment Protection Insurance (Coversafe), which was added to my account and a monthly premium charge ranging between £x.xx-£x.xx plus interest were applied to my account during the life of the agreement. (Exhibit C2).

 

4. As a result of the above, I believe that the defendant’s action resulted into processing or publication of inaccurate opinion of data about me, when the inaccurate/unfair processing first occurred on 26 June 2009 and this persisted to date. It is being process through Experience Credit Reference Agency and Equifax . (Exhibit C3)

5. The defendant closed my account for an alleged outstanding balance of £xxx.xx. I did not hear anything until 201x.

 

6. In 201x I received a letter from Lowell Portfollio1 Ltd informing me that they were assigned by Argos to collect the money owed under the agreement.

 

7. In XXXXX 201x, I made a Section 78 Request to Lowell Portfollio1 Ltd requesting for Notice of assignment, a true signed copy of Credit Agreement with terms and condition and statement of accounts. I paid the statutory fee too but never received everything except for a copy of an application form and some terms and conditions which were not related to the account in question but also ineligible. (Exhibit C4)

 

8. I also made the same request to the Defendant in XXXX 20xx, paid the statutory fee. (Exhibit C5)

 

9. In XXXXXX 20xx, I made a Data Subject Access Request to the Defendant to provide me with all the Data/ information they held on me and paid the statutory fee too. (Exhibit C6)

 

10. On xx XXXXX 20xx, I wrote to the defendant complaining about the mis-sale of Coversafe and I requested for full refund of the money taken towards insurance premium plus interest. I also enclosed the FOS PPI Questionnaire. (Exhibit C7 a&b)

 

11. I received an acknowledgement of my complaints from the defendant dated 0x September 2xxx regarding the Coversafe issues raised. In the letter, the Defendant enclosed a PPI Questionnaire form which I completed and posted back as instructed. The defendant wrote to me again in a letter dated xx September 20xx stating that the complaint was still being looked into and final response will be provided by xx xxxx 201x. (Exhibit C8 a&b)

 

12. I received a letter from the defendant dated xx XXXxr 201x rejecting my complaint for unfair charges and referring me to Ombudsman. (Exhibit C9)

 

13. The Defendant provided me with a copy of the Application Form I completed when I applied for the credit and statements of terms of agreement in a letter dated xx September 20xx in respond to my Section 78 Request. (Exhibit C10)

 

14. In a letter dated xxxxxx 20xx, the Defendant provided me with the some of the information I requested in my Data Subject Access Request but mainly statements of account from 20xx to 20xx. Also included was “GEMS ARCHIVE COPY STATEMENT REPORT” covering the entire period of the agreement and I discovered that there were a lot of penalty charges added to my account dating from 20xx to 20xx. (Exhibit C11)

 

15. I received a letter dated xx xxx xxx from the defendant stating that my PPI complaint has been upheld and made an offer totaling to £xxx.xx. The offer was made up of premium paid plus interest in regards to Payment Protection Insurance (Coversafe). Attached to the letter was terms and condition of accepting that the offer. It stated is that the offer was for full and final settlement of any claim against the defendant. An agreement was attached to the letter for me to sign. (Exhibit C12 a&b)

 

16. On xx xxxxx xxxx, I responded to the defendants offer letter and rejected it and requested that the decision is reviewed. (Exhibit C13)

 

17. On xxxxxxx 2xxx, I wrote a separate complaint letter to the defendant regarding the unfair charges applied to my account and requested full refund too plus compound interest. With the letter, I enclosed schedule of charges. (Exhibit C14 a&b)

 

18. On xx xxx 2xxx, I wrote the defendant again stating that I would only accept the offer as settlement for Payment Protection Insurance (Coversafe) but my unfair charges claim remains open. I did not sign the agreement provided by the defendant. (Exhibit C15)

 

19. I sent a Part 18 Request for further information to the defendant representative on xxxxxxxx but did not get any reply. (Exhibit C16)

 

20. I sent another Part 18 Request for further information to the defendant representative on xx xxx 201x to which I did not get any response.

 

21. I received a letter dated xx xxx 201x in regards to PPI Claim from the Defendant’s representative. (Exhibit C17)

 

22. I responded to the defendant’s representative letter regarding the PPI claim on xxxx 20xx. (Exhibit C18)

 

23. Therefore, since the default charges were applied in accordance with the standard terms of The Agreement which were:

a) A penalty payable on breach of contract and thus unenforceable: and

b) An unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (“The Regulations”) and therefore not binding on the Claimant.

I respectfully, request the court to make finding in my favor.

[Dot1]

Hi Dot responding to your PM

 

I would agree with Mikes post ...you seem to lose your way from 19 onward..bar point 25...it requires assertion (which you do by referring to case law and mark as exhibit x) and conclusion...conclude with what you want the court to judge and award on.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy.