Help - accused of fare dodging months ago and still haven't heard from TOC

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Hi,

 

I can't sleep for worrying about this even though I'm exhausted!

 

I was interviewed by a revenue protection officer on board a train in London in the middle of September,

who suspected me of fare dodging.

 

 

He interviewed me under caution, placed me under arrest and said that my case was being referred to the prosecutions department

of the train company for consideration.

 

 

I still haven't heard back from them and

am worried they have sent me a letter which has got lost in the post.

 

 

Is it normal to wait so long?

The RPI had said it would take about 6 weeks for the train operating company (TOC) to contact me.

 

I was travelling from south east London to East Croydon via London Bridge.

I had a season ticket from my local station to London Bridge but no ticket for the onward journey to Croydon,

which I had planned to buy at London Bridge.

 

As it turned out, I was in a rush, the Croydon train turned up within two minutes of me disembarking from the inbound train,

and I jumped on it thinking - mistakenly - that I could pay the difference on board or at the other end. Honestly!

 

I was not until recently a regular train user as I had private transport to commute to

and from work and have in the past paid on board trains for tickets,

so genuinely did not realise I was committing an offence at the time, and it was never my intention to dodge a fare.

 

 

I'm a reasonably well-paid professional person with no criminal record,

so why would I want to jeopardise my good reputation and future career prospects over a fare of a few pounds?

 

When the guard came round I said I needed to pay him a fare and asked if I could pay him the difference

on my existing season ticket but he said he was issuing me with a penalty fare.

I thought this was unfair and refused to pay it.

 

It gets worse. I then told him why I thought this was unfair

and that I had offered to pay him the regular fare. I felt I was being unjustly criminalised.

 

Then I refused to give him my name and address when asked because I felt frightened of him.

(He was a big, scary guy, which I accept is no excuse or defence,

but I suffer from an anxiety disorder, was under a great deal of stress and behaved irrationally.)

 

When told I faced prosecution and was being arrested, I said I would pay the penalty fare

- twice - but the RPI said he could not take a payment from me,

and did not say why. I also gave him my name and address.

 

On the train the guard suggested I had given the wrong address because he rang a help desk,

which told him I was not registered at the address given. But I am!

 

I realise now that my lack of co-operation was a big mistake and I have accepted that I will be prosecuted.

 

I wrote the TOC a letter straight away which I sent by special delivery, and emailed them,

providing documentary evidence and a copy of my season ticket and Oyster card, as requested by them.

 

But, three months on, I want to know if I should contact the TOC to check they have not already written to me?

I do not want to find out further down the line that I was convicted in court in my absence

because I did not receive their correspondence.

 

More about the incident:

When the guard arrested me on the platform at Croydon,

I panicked and rang the police, telling them I was being detained by an unauthorised person.

A police officer attended and supervised my interview with the guard at my request.

 

Before the police turned up a fellow passenger intervened on my behalf,

saying to the guard that he was shouting at me, and bullying and intimidating me,

that he was a big guy and I was a woman, and the way he was treating me was inappropriate.

The two men ended up arguing vigorously.

 

The fellow passenger finally left, but refused to give me his contact details when i asked if he would be a witness.

I gave him mine but he never contacted me.

 

 

In my letter to the TOC I asked them to look at the CCTV on the platform, which would confirm my story

about the passenger's intervention on my behalf.

I also asked that the footage be made available in the event of prosecution which would show the two men clearly arguing.

 

I don't want a criminal record but accept I may end up with one,

which I believe stands for 5 years before I no longer have to declare it to employers.

Could someone confirm this please?

 

This would affect my employment and may even result in job loss.

I am also an Australian and British citizen and fear it may adversely affect my right to re-enter Australia.

 

As well as outlining all of the above, I said in my letter that I regretted the way in which the situation had escalated,

that it was a genuine mistake that would never be repeated and that I would like to pay the penalty fare plus additional administrative costs.

 

I also explained that in the past four months I had moved house, that the vehicle that I used to get to work was stolen,

had had a brain aneurysm diagnosed and was presently being investigated for lung cancer.

All of which possibly contributed to my unhelpful reaction to the guard.

I supplied documentary evidence to back up all of this and gave the TOC permission to contact any of the relevant authorities

to check the documents' authenticity, should they wish to do so.

 

 

I also enclosed a letter from the council confirming my address (given to the guard)

and a letter from a psychologist confirming that I had received cognitive behavioural therapy for anxiety.

 

I had a lawyer look over my letter before I sent it to the TOC.

 

 

He recommended a barrister, should the matter proceed, and I will take his advice and hire the barrister if I receive a summons.

 

The question is, should I contact the TOC to ask why I have not heard from them?

 

The solicitor I saw told me that the TOC must bring a prosecution within 6 months of the offence, otherwise they are not allowed to pursue the matter further.

 

I realise NOW that I was in the wrong on the train - I just didn't realise it at the time, which I realise (now) is no defence.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading this far.

[Dottyoldbat1204]

By the way, i have never been in any kind of trouble like this before - it is the first time it's happened. Would this make a difference? Thanks

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Anyone? My apologies for the long post.

[dx100uk]

if you've heard nowt to date and the TOC is aware of your address

 

 

then I'd guess you are very lucky.

 

 

you should have heard by now

the limit I think is 6mts.

 

 

pers , I'd sit on your hands.

 

 

dx

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Thanks for replying dx100uk.

 

My only concern about not reminding them of my case is that elsewhere on this forum I read about an overseas student who was summonsed to court because the TOC had not sent him a letter notifying him of their intention. I think also that when he'd sent his letter of explanation to them, they managed to lose it. I may have got those details slightly mixed up, but I know there was an administrative fault on the part of the TOC.

 

I will try to find his case and post the link here.

[dx100uk]

the bottom line here is you jumped the gun and sent your letter before anything from the authorities.

 

 

the TOC would have probably binned your letter

not knowing what it was about

 

 

thus you've caused your own 'wonder'

upon what has happened.

 

 

if they were to take this further

they will write to you

after your side of the story.

 

 

as I said, as long as they are aware of your correct address

then to me it looks like you are clear of anything happening now

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Ah, it won't let me post the link because my post count is not high enough.

 

Yes, I did write to the TOC before they wrote to me. And I still have not heard from them.

 

They may have binned my letter for whatever reason, but they will have the email version of the letter I sent, plus documentary evidence attached.

 

In deciding whether to prosecute, surely they must read my side of the story before making that decision?

 

I phoned them back in September and asked them if they'd received my email and they said they had.

 

 

I also told the man on the phone, who was very nice, that I would like to settle out of court, if possible, and

he asked if I had indicated this in my letter. Which I had, not using the words "settle out of court",

but asking if I could pay the penalty fare plus any (unspecified) administrative costs incurred.

 

 

Frankly, I will pay them whatever they ask for - if I am given that option, of course.

 

Thank you so much for your reply.

[Dottyoldbat1204]

The young man who had the problem with non-receipt of letters between himself and the TOC was sddxac.

 

The last post to his thread, a bit further down the list of threads, was on Nov 22 and the title says ***SETTLED BEFORE COURT*****

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?435016-help-required-regarding-TFL-prosecution-**SETTLED-BEFORE-COURT-**&highlight=sddxac

 

 

got letter you have not.

large diff in the scenario

 

 

dx

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Hello dx100uk,

 

Yes, this is the young man. Thanks for posting the link.

 

Please accept my apologies but I am unsure as to what you mean when you write "got letter you have not".

 

 

Do you mean that this foreign man at least received a letter from the TOC?

 

I do really appreciate your input,

many thanks for taking the time to reply to me.

 

 

This, however, is what's worrying me on that other thread:

 

you want to find out what's happened to it and why they haven't read or responded to it.

 

You should also complain to the CEO of TFL that they received your letter but the prosecutions department at TFL has lost it.

 

they ask you for your side of the story,

you send your side of the stroy via special delivery,

they lose your letter, they don't respond. >>>>>>

 

I know I am perhaps worrying too much,

sorry. It's hard not to worry bearing in mind that I could end up with a criminal record.

 

The TOC is definitely aware of my correct address because of all the documentation

 

 

I have sent them both by email in the form of scanned attachments and by post,

all of which confirm my address, which is the same address I gave to the guard.

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

you have not received the 'we want your side of the story letter'

from the authories.

 

 

he did

 

 

stop worrying

 

 

dx

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Lol, thanks dx. I will try to stop worrying..... the pessimist in me won't allow that to continue for long though

[firstclassx]

The TOC has 6 MONTHS to commence criminal legal proceedings against you.

 

As you've already been advised, it's a bad idea to write to the train company first, because the tone of your letter can inflame a situation, especially if it contains any sort of "complaint" or "criticism" of the staff. If you've just written about how unfair you have been treated, or how bad the member of staff was, you're making things 1000x times worse when it comes to sorting the situation out, as they'll assume you have no genuine remorse.

 

Additionally, although unlikely, the Inspector may have lost your notes, or failed to write a statement, so by writing to them, you are effectively "reminding" them about your case, whereas you could possibly have been forgotten about otherwise.

 

You need to forget your "customer service" issues entirely and focus on the fact that you did commit an offence, were caught, and by the sounds of it you were not cooperative at all.

 

You have committed 2 offences.

 

1) Byelaw 18 - Travel without a valid ticket

2) Byelaw 23 - Failure to provide name & address on demand to authorised person.

 

Incidentally you were correctly and lawfully arrested by the Inspector. He has the power to detain you, using force if necessary, if you fail to provide your correct name and address, which you admit that you failed to do. (Section 5(2) Regulation of Railways Act 1889).

 

Your attitude, if they do decide to prosecute, is going to be your downfall, and make it almost impossible IMO to avoid court.

 

BUT the positive side of things are that the above only applies IF they do prosecute you. If they've lost your case paperwork, or simply decided not to prosecute for whatever reason then you've had a narrow escape.

 

The TOC has until mid-March to apply to court for a summons, which then normally arrives at your door within a month or so at most afterwards.

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Thanks for your response Firstclass.

 

It's helpful to know what I am up against and from what you say, it seems that I will end up with a criminal record if the matter proceeds to court,

which will be a utter disaster for me, both personally and professionally.

That is something that I will have to come to terms with.

 

Unfortunately, it is too late for me to do anything about sending the letter to the TOC.

I wish that I had posted here before doing so, but that is yet another lesson learnt!

 

I think that I was careful not to complain in my letter to the TOC but to maintain a neutral tone in describing what happened.

the part about the passenger intervening was simply a factual account of what happened and the words used were the passenger's, not mine.

 

I did express remorse in my letter by saying that I regretted not paying the penalty fare

and the way in which the incident had escalated and that my failure to have a ticket for the second part of the journey

was a genuine mistake that would never be repeated.

 

Please also bear in mind that I was under a great deal of stress because of health worries

and other issues and I reacted in a way that was irrational and out of character.

 

I am not an intentional fare dodger

- I could afford the fare and had about £80 in cash on me, plus credit and debit card, so could have afforded to pay the penalty fare too.

 

 

I am someone who simply made a mistake and failed to respond in "the right way" to the guard.

I do not think it is just that I should be tarred as a criminal for the rest of my life

but I appreciate that the TOC and the court may not see it that way.

 

I reiterate that it was never my intention to fare dodge.

My offences were as a result of my own ignorance and incompetence, which I accept is no defence in court

- having read up on this matter a great deal since the incident.

 

Firstclass, sorry if I misunderstand but in your post, did you mean that if I receive a summons,

I would get roughly about a month's notice of an impending court date?

My apologies if I have misunderstood you in any way.

 

Many thanks for your reply and for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative post.

[dx100uk]

its been 3 months

you would of normal heard by now.

 

 

it is extremely rare for 'innocent mistake' cases by 1st offenders to goto court

and

get a conviction.

 

 

if you were to get a summons

lets say the 'your side' letter has gone missing

 

 

you would still be able to send the grovelling letter

there are several cases here whereby it then did not progress to court

and was settled out side.

 

 

dx

[firstclassx]

Unless the Train Operator has some evidence that you DELIBERATELY avoided paying your fare, (i.e. intentionally travelled beyond your destination hoping you wouldn't get caught etc), then you won't get a criminal record. If this was the case, they'd prosecute using Section 5- Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

 

Most likely in your case, a conviction would be brought under the Railway Byelaws, and although it would still result in a criminal conviction, it does not result in a criminal record. Although if an employer directly asked you if you had any convictions, you would have to honestly answer "yes".

 

Whilst a "record" is created, it does not appear on normal criminal record checks, it would only ever appear on "enhanced" checking, where you would be applying for jobs involving vulnerable people, (hospitals/schools etc), or financial/legal/security professions etc.

 

A court will normally give you a few weeks notice, probably around a month between receiving a summons and attending court, although you can plead guilty by post and never have to attend.

[Dottyoldbat1204]

Hi Dx100uk and thank you so much for your post. I have read of cases of people receiving summons five or six months after the alleged offence, but I guess what you are saying is that this perhaps is the exception rather than the rule? I can only cross my fingers and hope.

 

And to FirstClass, thanks again for your post, which is very helpful, though it's depressing to hear that I will have to declare a criminal offence whichever category of offence I may be prosecuted under.

 

I have learnt so much from this experience. Namely that in future, if an RPI tells me to jump, I will do so, or that if black is white and he's Henry VII reincarnated from a previous life, then I shall not be inclined to disagree with him (or her, as the case may be).

 

I've learnt that I am a dinosaur living in the dark ages, believing that because I was able to pay a fare to a guard on a train a few years ago, and on another occasion an excess fare at the end of my journey, that I could still do so. When in fact in the five years I'd been commuting to work in my vehicle (now sadly stolen), so much had changed. I need to wake up. And get real.

 

I am very "square" and straight about money, crime and bending the rules as I am terrified of the police and courts. I never get into debt, tell my insurers EVERYTHING, pay all my bills promptly - even in advance, where possible - and would never dare try to cheat or fiddle anyone. So I am horrified to find myself in this situation. The whole experience has been deeply traumatic. If I get a criminal record I will probably want to kill myself, but I won't as I haven't got the guts.