JSA Reduced Payment Help

[drob]

I attended an interview in October with Argos for a temporary position but that's as far as it went.

 

I have received a letter from the Department for Work & Pensions informing me that they are using information received regarding my income that has been given to the HM Revenue & Customs. The Department for Work & Pensions have reduced my JSA to £38.33 as they claim I am receiving on average £39.07 per week from my employment with Argos

 

I have never worked for Argos paid or unpaid so I rang the DWP to see what was going on. They told me to either get a letter from Argos confirming that I have never worked for them and ring the HM Revenue & Customs.

 

Firstly I rang the HMRC who told me that they don't know where the DWP have got their information wrong as it's incorrect. So i then rang the DWP back to tell them and they got very stroppy and told me to go to my local Jobcente and complete a MF47 statement to confirm I have never worked for Argos. The DWP also said they still need a letter from Argos. I reiterated that I have never worked for Argos so how can I approach them for a letter. I also said that you the DWP have made a false accusation so how on earth can I be penalised for your error..... didn't go down to well!

 

Went to my local Jobcentre, completed the MF47 statement and they scanned it and sent it off for me via email.

 

I then contacted Argos to see if they would put together a letter and they said in general the DWP will contact them direct if they want any information and the request must come from them.

 

I telephoned the DWP again today to chase things up and they told me where is the letter from Argos. I told them that the request must come from the DWP and was then told "we don't do the chasing". I then asked what has happened to the MF47 statement. "What MF47 statement" was the reply, we have no records of it.

 

I then went on a rant as I have £3.82 to last me through Christmas for something that Is not my fault and is obviously an error by the DWP. The lady I spoke to just said I will email someone and get them to call you. (Still Waiting for the Call).

 

Honestly I am flabbergasted on how they are dealing with this matter and how unhelpful the DWP are being.

[antone]

Usually I'm quite tolerant of DWP errors - they're rarely malicious and it's a huge department, etc etc.

 

But this is pretty spectacular. I would certainly be chasing up that missed callback, perhaps asking to speak to a manager there. But really, I think it might be time to have a word with your MP - one of their jobs is to help you with situations like this.

[jabba jones]

Sounds like a Real Time Information case Antone.

 

In which case Argos have provided the HMRC with details of wages paid & this in turn is passed to the DWP FEPS to correct benefit payments.

 

Its then passed onto FES & there will probably be a note on system stating not to discuss anything with the customer whilst FES are involved.

 

The next part may vary from area to area. Many of these cases involve relatively small overpayments that would normally be passed to Compliance. However 50% Administrative Penalties are suddenly important again so FES are under pressure to keep many of them.

 

Some of the cases will involve employers providing HMRC with the wrong Nino (normally one digit out) or some other simple error, but nearly all should be correct. If an error is discovered the case should be sent back to FEPS to sort out.

 

These kind of cases should start cropping up more often and I understand views on how to deal with them are changing on a regular basis.

[drob]

- The DWP have made the error by acting upon incorrect information they have received from HMRC.

- HMRC have confirmed verbally that the DWP are acting on incorrect information.

- DWP are placing the burden of proof in my direction, I have nothing to prove as it's a DWP error.

 

A few years ago I used to work as a payroll administrator and whenever the DWP/Jobcentre wanted any information regarding an employee they would simply fax a request for information, the information would be supplied and faxed back, So for the DWP to tell me it's not their responsibility to contact Argos is a Joke and an utter disgrace.

 

I rang the DWP again this morning to chase this and was told that because I hadn't received a callback within the 3 hour time-frame the matter will be escalated and that someone will call back within the next hour.. The chap i spoke to also said "I don't know what is going on but you are not alone and this sort of problem seems to be happening quite often"

[drob]

Finally had a callback from DWP ....

 

They have received the MK47 statement and will pass it on to the relevant department who will then investigate the matter, unfortunately they are not able to give me a time-frame for this matter to be resolved.

 

I was then asked, "why have you contacted Argos if you have never worked for them" erm..... because you advised me to, to get a letter stating that I never worked for Argos.

 

I have never dealt with anyone who is so abrupt or incompetent ....so frustrated!!!

[drob]

I am still waiting for this to be sorted and starting to get very angry...

 

I rang this morning only to be told that they are still waiting for some information and the matter has been escalated and still are unable to give me a time frame before the matter is resolved.

 

I just can't get my head round the fact that the DWP have caused me hardship through no fault of mine and are acting on inaccurate information from HMRC...

[SabreSheep]

IS there an appeal process to being? Watch time frames. IS there a mandatory reconsideration you should do.

 

Time to start following the process to avoid running out of time on appeals etc

[drob]

IS there an appeal process to being? Watch time frames. IS there a mandatory reconsideration you should do.

 

Time to start following the process to avoid running out of time on appeals etc

 

On the letter I received it stated...

 

What to do if you think this decision is wrong

If you think the decision is wrong, please get in touch with us by telephone or in writing, within one month of the date of this letter. You can appeal against the decision, but cannot appeal until we have looked at the decision again, we call this Mandatory Reconsideration

 

The letter is dated 15th December, I received the letter on 18th December and telephoned them on 19th December to tell them that they have got it wrong.

[SabreSheep]

Get in touch NOW in writing demanding a mandatory reconsideration. Send it from a post office and get proof of postage.

 

Get this done so they receive it before the time runs out.

 

Time to collect a paper trail.

[drob]

Get in touch NOW in writing demanding a mandatory reconsideration. Send it from a post office and get proof of postage.

 

Get this done so they receive it before the time runs out.

 

Time to collect a paper trail.

 

- I have been ringing them daily since Friday 19th...

 

- I have supplied a MF47 statement as they requested, this was scanned and emailed to them from my local Jobcentre...

 

- The DWP have made the error by acting upon incorrect information they have received from HMRC...

 

- After a short call to the HMRC they confirmed verbally that the DWP are acting on incorrect information... If i can get this information from the HMRC in a matter of minutes, why is it taking the DWP days to get the information...

 

I have also contacted my local MP today, however I suspect he is still on his Christmas holidays until next week.

[SabreSheep]

Do things in writing so they can be presented in an appeal

 

Verbal over the phone means nothing.

 

Do not get strung along till the point comes where they turn round and say "tough luck your out of time to appeal"

 

Follow the process

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I agree with Sabre Sheep, in writing is much better. If you really feel you must ring, at least note the time and date that you ring and take a note of the name of the person you speak to.

 

HB

[drob]

Hello there.

 

I agree with Sabre Sheep, in writing is much better. If you really feel you must ring, at least note the time and date that you ring and take a note of the name of the person you speak to.

 

HB

 

Haven't I got to wait until they have looked at it again and responded before I can appeal??? At the moment they are still investigating. I have supplied a MF47 statement as they requested, this was scanned and emailed to them from my local Jobcentre.

 

What upsets me is that they have acted upon incorrect information and have no hesitation in making accusations, cutting my JSA and forcing me into hardship.

[SabreSheep]

From what I can work out a MF47 is a Compliance process NOT an APPEAL PROCESS

 

Demand a mandatory reconsideration

 

Then If not resolved, begin the Appeal. Where you can present your bank statements etc and force them to prove their case that you have been working. (When you have not)

 

The problem is working outside these procedures can make things even more complicated and increases the chances of them running you around till you are out of time.

 

The procedures (Mandatory Reconsideration and Appeal) are all time bound. If they do nto follow these procedures a complaint of maladministration can be made against them which has negative repurcussions for them. However just talking over the phone withotu a paper trail means there is little you can do when they run you around in circles. The papertrail by doing everything in writing means that you have evidence you can produce at an appeal.

[Mr.P]

Haven't I got to wait until they have looked at it again and responded before I can appeal???

 

Asking (demanding) for a mandatory reconsideration in writing is just one step to back up the verbal request made over the phone. If the MR process has already started, the letter may focus their attention. Putting the request in writing (as others have already pointed out) leaves a paper trail that can not be ignored if you need to take it to the next stage.

 

You can either post the letter and get proof of posting, or take it (along with a copy) to your local Job Centre and hand it over and get someone to sign & date the copy as proof of receipt. Personally, I prefer the second option as it scuppers any future claims that they didn't receive the letter.

[drob]

It took me less that 20 minutes to call HM Revenue & Customs and for them to confirm that the DWP have made the error by acting upon incorrect information. The HM Revenue & Customs exact words where "Don't know where the DWP have got their information from, but it's incorrect". So if it took me 20 minutes to get this information, then why is it taking several days for the DWP to check again with HM Revenue & Customs?

 

The whole process just winds me up. You ring and then they have to get someone to call you back within 3 hours. As yet I have never received a call back within the 3 hours and have had to chase them. When you chase them they say that they have tried to call but couldn't get through, which is a blatant lie. I was told today that they are meant to try 3 times to call you back, it doesn't happen once never mind 3 times!!

 

I will ring again on Friday and if they still have not sorted this out then on Monday I will go down to my Jobcentre and I will demand a mandatory reconsideration in writing.

[drob]

Update

 

So, I rang the DWP again this morning to chase this up and I don't know why I put myself through it as they just wind me up!!!! As yet they are unable to give me an update and in her very own words "You are aware their have been a few bank holidays Sir, so it's inevitable of delays getting this sorted"

 

So, the next time I sign on at the Jobcentre and when they say that you haven't applied for many jobs over the festive period do you think I will get away with saying "You are aware their have been a few bank holidays"?

 

Every time I ring the DWP they ask for a contact number, however they never ring me back and I end up chasing them. Today, I asked them to confirm my contact number they have and read back a completely different number ....... UTTER & TOTAL INCOMPETENCE.

[SabreSheep]

You could of course STOP talking to them on the phone.

 

Others and I have told u to do everything via writing with proof of postage for a reason.

 

your getting frustraighted for EXACTLY those same reasons.

[drob]

You could of course STOP talking to them on the phone.

 

Others and I have told u to do everything via writing with proof of postage for a reason.

 

your getting frustraighted for EXACTLY those same reasons.

 

I am going to send a 1st Class Recorded letter on Monday...

[SabreSheep]

If u want help with wording post a draft here so others cam offer feedback

[drob]

If u want help with wording post a draft here so others cam offer feedback

 

Should I keep the letter short and sweet, just listing the reasons why their decision is wrong? or should I list everything that has happened in the letter?

[Nystagmite]

Don't waffle and keep to the point. But at the same time, you do need to put as much relevant information in the letter as possible. And enclose any relevant letters that you have.

[drob]

Ok, I have put together a draft letter and would welcome any comments or observations before I post on Monday....

 

 

Re: Written Mandatory Reconsideration

 

Dear Integrity Centre Manager

 

I am writing in response to your letter dated 15 December 2014 informing me that you have reviewed my claim for Jobseeker’s Allowance and advised me that entitlement has changed from 04 December 2014 to £38.33 per week.

 

Your reason given for the change to my entitlement is that you claim to be using information about my income given to HM Revenue & Customs by Argos Ltd and that you contend that I have an average income from Argos Ltd of £39.07 per week.

 

Also in your letter you state that if I thought that the decision was wrong I must get in touch with you either verbally or in writing within one month of the date of the letter. On 18th December 2014 I telephoned you to verbally ask you to look at your decision again and I was advised that I would receive a call back from the relevant department regarding this matter.

 

On 19th December 2014 I received a call back and was told that in October 2014 I received a payment of approximately £156.28 from Argos Ltd and that this information had been received from HM Revenue & Customs. I again reiterated that I have not done any paid or unpaid work for Argos Ltd. I was then told that I would need to obtain letters from Argos Ltd and HM Revenue & Customs to confirm that I have not been employed by Argos Ltd.

 

Also on 19th December 2014 I telephoned HM Revenue & Customs who advised me verbally that they do not know where the Department for Work & Pensions have got their information from as it's incorrect. I then telephoned Argos Ltd to ask for a letter to confirm that I have not done any paid or unpaid work for them. Argos Ltd informed me that any requests for information must come from the Department for Work & Pensions.

 

I then telephoned you again to inform you of the information that I had received from HM Revenue & Customs and Argos Ltd. I was then abruptly told to go to my local Jobcente and complete a MF47 statement to confirm I have never worked for Argos Ltd.

 

On 19th September a MF47 statement was completed at my local Jobcentre, the document was scanned and emailed to you and a hard copy of the statement was posted to you.

 

As I have not received a response regarding my verbal request to for you to look at your decision again I now putting my request in writing.

 

Reasons why I think your decision is wrong

a) I have not done any paid or unpaid work for Argos Ltd.

b) I did not receive a payment of £156.28 from Argos Ltd in October 2014.

c) I have not done any paid or unpaid work since May 2014.

d) The information that you have based your decision on from HMRC is inaccurate.

 

I have attached to this letter my bank statement for October 2014 which clearly shows that I have not received any payment from Argos Ltd.

 

In Summary the Department for Work & Pensions have made an assumption on incorrect information and have forced me in to unnecessary hardship.

 

Yours Faithfully

drob

[Mr.P]

Your reason given for the change to my entitlement is that you claim to be using information about my income given to HM Revenue & Customs by Argos Ltd and that you contend that I have an average income from Argos Ltd of £39.07 per week.

 

Slight edit. Your original wording suggests that the information provided by HMRC was correct.

[drob]

Slight edit. Your original wording suggests that the information provided by HMRC was correct.

 

Thank you for taking time to proof read my letter to the DWP. I have made the slight edit that you have suggested.