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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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HELP! XMAS Claim from CABOT / WRIGHT HASSALL CLAIM for old EGG Card


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Ok thanks Andy, so anything disclosed later cannot be relied on, has to be now or never

(I think that's what you were saying?)

 

cheers,

gf2k

 

Disclosed later ? later than what?

We could do with some help from you.

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Disclosed later ? later than what?

 

Sorry, disclosed later than/after Standard Disclosure today.

I understand there is a running requirement to disclose right up until the trial hearing?

If so I imagine there must be a mechanism in place to file/submit/disclose new docs that come to light even after the Standard Disclosure deadline?

 

thanks

 

gf2k

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Okay with you...well its called a Supplemental Disclosure...but it has to be by application with fee and consent of the other party and it will require a further witness statement (supplemental)

 

So tricky and costly

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part31#31.13

We could do with some help from you.

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Okay with you...well its called a Supplemental Disclosure...but it has to be by application with fee and consent of the other party and it will require a further witness statement (supplemental)

 

So tricky and costly

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part31#31.13

 

ok thanks Andy, back to you later if I have any other questions.

Cheers,

gf2k

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Hi Andy,

I had terrible issues submitting my N264,

 

 

I completed it in good time but couldnt print it until yesterday at the library as my home printer didn't work.

 

As a result I had to email but it didn;t allow electronic signature so I still had to find a way to print it.

 

I downloaded the completed N264 to a usb and took it to the library

but their systems didn;t recognise it,

the N264 was blank and I was stuck at the library with an hour to go and no information to complete a new one.

I couldn't get back home in time

 

 

the only way I could redo the N264 was get my wife to send photos of the completed version on my pc at home.

 

She did this and I re-typed the form, printed it, signed it and re-scanned it

but throughout this the library system kept logging me out repeatedly and closing what was working on

so although I did finally email the court and WH it was pretty much dead on 4pm so slightly over time when they got it.

 

I've emailed a letter to the court tonight with a full explanation of the technical issues/extenuating circumstances which were a comedy of errors,

but I don't know if it'll do any good.

 

Am I scuppered irrevocably or is it possible the court will take into account those circumstances

and the fact that I'm LiP without the financial & technical resources of a solicitors?

 

Frustrated.:mad2:

Thanks,

GF2k

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N265 GF...dont worry time is not as critical as the actual Witness Statement and Disclosure itself.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for coming back to me so quickly Andy,

That's good to hear but I'm going to go back to the library to scan/copy their receipt from yesterday and also print a hardcopy of a Screen Print of the printer problem.

 

Oops, N265, noticed that this morning too so corrected my letter, I'll email it again with everything when I have the receipt scanned in and print it off at the library too.

 

If I take that all in to the Court and submit it physically over the counter will that be dealt with/seen by the judge quicker than my emails?

I understand emails and post are usually running 10 days behind due to the backlog but perhaps over the counter is different?

 

Thanks,

gf2k

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GF the N265 is between you and the claimant only in the main...the court will not be too concerned what is actually on that list...as long as disclosure happens at the appropriate time.

You must serve copies on the court of your actual disclosure and witness statement

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy should i just send everything voluntarily to save time?

 

If this were smalls claim track I would say yes GF...but as we are in Fast Track you must follow the directions.

 

Disclosure List by xxxxxxx

 

Disclosure exchange by xxxxxxxxx

 

Witness Statement by xxxxxxxxx

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy,

My concern is that WH may use my being 3 mins over to use this strike out my defence.

The Order has a warning in bold at the top:

Warning: you must comply with the terms imposed upon you by this order otherwise your case is liable to be struck out or some other sanction imposed. If you cannot comply you are expected to make a formal application to the court before any deadline imposed upon you expires.

 

Also, when I got their N265 last week they had enclosed the only document in their Disclosure List that I had not already received, so i have nothing to request now.

 

Surely I may as well do the same proactively to be safe? They will most likely ask for the docs anyway this week (they have until next Monday) and at the least if I file everything in the list proactively it will dissuade the court from agreeing to any application they may make to Strike out?

 

Surely I won;t be penalised for providing everything voluntarily?

 

Thanks,

Gf2k

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Well visa versa they may not require anything you have on your list...the 265 as stated is not a stringent part of the directions...in fact some parties do not even use it in Fast Track.

We could do with some help from you.

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I understand it's not the done thing, in fact it's overkill but the letter of the Order hasn't been adhered to so I'm thinking overkill might help mitigate the risk of Strike Out on a technicality.

 

If I was in their position I would try any opportunity to Strike out given that there is a clear warning in the Order but do you think the court would see that as overkill on their part given that the 265 was only 3 minutes late, albeit by email?

 

I know it's my own little storm in a tea cup but I'd rather go overboard to be safe, I just keep remembering how unforgiving the judge was.

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I personally would leave it...sanctions imposed for a 3 min delay on a N265 exchange...you would be the first ever GF:-)

We could do with some help from you.

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I personally would leave it...sanctions imposed for a 3 min delay on a N265 exchange...you would be the first ever GF:-)

 

Thanks Andy, at least I'm ready for any request which may reach me tomorrow. fingers crossed...:-)

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Hi Andy/everyone,

An update and some questions if anyone can help please:

 

Disclosure

I've had no bounceback from WH's email address after submitting my N265 Disclosure List on Monday, but also no confirmation of receipt which I find odd/worrying.

I've still not sent any hardcopies, money is extremely tight so posting hardcopies (which I have to pay to produce too) means I can't unless absolutely unavoidable, however I'm wondering if I need to send hardcopies today to be safe?

 

Less urgently but also important some questions that may affect my Witness Statement:

Interest:

Since C@b0t bought the balance from egg c£14k in 2009 they have added interest "at a rate of 12% per annum on a simple basis." so they estimate now c£22k with legal costs.

This is despite not providing a Signed agreement at any time for an account opened in May 2004.

Do I have grounds to dispute this interest given the account is in dispute?

 

No Signed Agreement

I have always understood a signed agreement is needed for pre-2007 agreements but they seem to think not?

Could anyone clarify what the limits of this defence might be for me?

 

Many thanks everyone,

gf2k

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" Less urgently but also important some questions that may affect my Witness Statement:

Interest:

Since C@b0t bought the balance from Eggicon c£14k in 2009 they have added interest "at a rate of 12% per annum on a simple basis." so they estimate now c£22k with legal costs.

This is despite not providing a Signed agreement at any time for an account opened in May 2004.

Do I have grounds to dispute this interest given the account is in dispute?"

 

Given that the account has been terminated...how can they add interest ?

 

A reconstituted is fine with regards to complying to a section 77/78 request.....but if the agreement is pre 2007 they need the signed executed agreement to enforce it in Court

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy,

That's very much my view but WH are increasingly firm that it's reasonable for their client to charge interest and that they only need reconstituted docs.

As regards Termination would a "Your Egg Card account has been cancelled...", cut up your cards etc. letter be sufficient?

As regards Signed agreement what point of law may I quote in future/on my WS?

 

One last thing...WH have drafted a letter to request docs from my disclosed list but haven't sent it yet (apparently pending approval?) and the deadline is monday for requests to be in.

Their rep may give me a call to go make the request verbally.

Is this acceptable or is it a strict enough deadline that I should try an application to strike?

 

thanks,

gf2k

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Okay here is an upload which will tell you all about enforceability and section 77/8 requests...so glean from this what ever you need for your ws.

 

Guidanceonsections77_78_79oftheConsumerCreditAct1974.pdf

 

Parties are encouraged to discuss and agree disclosure so its fine to proceed with that.

We could do with some help from you.

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thanks Andy, I'll have a good read through but just on the question of the letter is cancellation essentially termination?

if as I hope it is then do I need to try to include it in disclosure in some way or is referring to cancellation in my WS enough?

 

cheers,

gf2k

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As regards Termination would a "Your Eggicon Card account has been cancelled...", cut up your cards etc. letter be sufficient?

 

 

I would say that any reasonable person would be under the impression that their account had been terminated - yes !

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thanks CB,

Egg definitely stopped charging interest from that point yet as soon as C@b0t bought the debt 3 years later they started to add interest.

Their claim includes c£6k+ interest which from what you and Andy have affirmed they have no right to charge.

 

Is this a potential claim killer or just a negotiation point?

Either way do I have to present the letter to prove the point? it isn't in the disclosure list.

 

Cheers,

gf2k

 

 

 

Also CB I'd appreciate your view regarding

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Also CB I'd appreciate your view regarding the signed agreement question.

Particularly if you know what case law I could quote to shut them down?

 

At the CMC their rep only provided reconstituted agreements but the judge lapped it up saying that it was a long time ago and the court accepts that sometimes in these situations original documentation gets lost/can't be found, the docs are all that the claimant has been able to find so they are acceptable...which completely contradicted my understanding.

 

Thanks,

gf2k

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