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HELP! XMAS Claim from CABOT / WRIGHT HASSALL CLAIM for old EGG Card


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Hi I know it's Christmas but really hope someone can help me out urgently,

 

I've had a claim through from cabot financial with 'right hassle' acting on their behalf for a very old Egg account.

 

I submitted the AOS

 

now need to put together a defence in the next 2-3 days

and submit by thursday next week

(i think that's the deadline having used the 33 day from service calc).

 

Claim details/points

Claimant - CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED

Address for docs & payments - WRIGHT HASSALL LLP

Date of issue24/11/14

POC - POC ATTACHED but I can type this out if need be.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54992[/ATTACH]

 

- Not sure if important but POC seems to include a mistake or two:

using # symbols instead of £,

also they quote a #19,***.** balance for the debt

(far in excess of the c14K at close of account!?) and

 

then go on to ask for interest of exactly the same total:

 

"The Claimant therefore claims the sum of #19,***.** interest under s89 County Courts Act 1984 and costs."

surely this is wrong and a basis to defend/strike out?

 

Claim Value - ALMOST £20,000

Original Creditor - EGG (Card Account closed 2006)

Type of Account - CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT

Agreement entered pre-2007? - Yes 2004

Account assigned by Debt Purchaser? - Yes, by CABOT (bought from Egg 2009)

Notice of Assignment? NOT SURE if I have a properly worded NOA:

 

- had a letter from EGG (OC) late 2009 stating

"We hereby give notice of the transfer of the debt due to us by you..

..On XXX 2009 your account was sold to Cabot Financial..

.Any further communications and payments must therefore be addressed to Cabot...etc."

 

-had a "Welcome to Cabot" letter stating similar (is that acceptable as an NOA)

 

Default Notice from the original creditor? - YES 2006 but not sure if correct

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? -

YES BUT NOT EVERY YEAR (not in 2011 & 2012)

 

Why did you cease payments? - BUSINESS IN TROUBLE SO SEVERE FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES

What was the date of your last payment? - to the OC May/June 2006 (can check exact date if needed)

- to the DCA not sure either late 2008 or very early 2009

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Possibly

 

- PPI charged when not asked for, this was refunded (2004) but can I use this?

- CCA request to ARC in early 2009 recorded post,

responded with a copy of a signed Egg Agreement but not the entire terms,

very brief 2 pages - pretty sure I wrote back

"account in dispute" as requested docs not supplied but what if I can't find letter/postal proof?

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan?

YES, I wrote to them saying that I had severe financial issues asking for account to be put on hold,

that I had been in touch with National Debtline (gave them the ref number) and had been making recent smaller payments,

They wrote back saying no can do.

 

PPI - as mentioned above never requested/applied for but charged at the start of the account,

I lodged a complaint and was refunded the 2 charges.

 

Interest - The interest has been accruing since the account moved on and has grown from c£14k to almost £20k,

surely this is wrong when there are no details as to how they have come by an interest rate, what terms do they rely on etc?

 

Can anyone help me out with some advice please,

am I on the right track with some of my thoughts above?

 

 

Most urgently I'm not sure if i should send any further CCA requests to Cabot or WH or even Egg? Too late for a CPR31.14?

 

If i can get the letters into the post tomorrow morning they will reach the DCA/OC by Monday morning recorded delivery

which gives almost a week - but I need to send them by 12pm tomorrow so if anyone is out there please advise.

 

Many thanks.

GF2k

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yes get CPR and CCA request off to them.

 

 

file the no paperwork/holding defence

on time regardless

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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What was the date of your last payment? - to the OC May/June 2006 (can check exact date if needed)

- to the DCAlink3.gif not sure either late 2008 or very early 2009

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Looks like last paid Feb 2009 to ARC but I never had an noa from them.

So OC more than 6 years and ARC less than 6 years but with no NOA.

Is the lack of NOA significant?

 

Sorry do I was unsure about putting right date.

Claim form issued 24th Nov so would that make the defence deadline next Friday?

Thanks

Gf2k

 

Not sure if this posted, I can't see it so apologies if a repeat:

 

Thanks everyone,

yes I will post the requests and submit the no docs holding defence.

I have the cpr 31.14 template now, would anyone have a link to a template for the defence?

 

thanks,

 

Gf2k

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If the claim is for over £10,000 it will be a fast track claim and you will likely expect some costs if you were to defend and lose !

 

33 days from 24.11.2014 is Boxing Day - I suspect you will be allowed 1 extra days because of the Bank Holiday.

 

Erm, how come you didn't let us know about this a lot sooner than today !!

Edited by Andyorch
1 extra day.... only Boxing day is classed as a court holiday

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So sorry CB/everyone, yes you're right I should have posted much earlier. I've had so much on over the last few weeks, every time I sat down to do it I got pulled away. Thought I had more time but it's gone far too quickly.

 

As far as defending goes is there any advice on the getting anywhere with the wording of the poc, mis-charged ppi, lack of statements 2011/12, statute barring (lack of noa for Arc the last paid), massive interest added and other points above ?

 

Also how would costs be calculated, percentage if total?

 

Thanks and apologies again.

Gf2k

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are those ARC payments showing on say Noddle Cra file [below]

 

 

NO NOA means nowt sadly.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Regarding those idiotic interest charges, they cannot apply them to your balance unless they provide you with a statement at least once a year. In defending this claim you should dispute this amount citing no statements received, if indeed that is the case, and that therefore you are unable to audit (use that word) the claim fully.

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are those ARC payments showing on say Noddle Cra file [below]

 

NO NOA means nowt sadly.

 

Thanks dx

Tried to get into Noddle but didn't validate so trying when back home in an hour.

 

shame about lack of noa

 

Regarding those idiotic interest charges, they cannot apply them to your balance unless they provide you with a statement at least once a year. In defending this claim you should dispute this amount citing no statements received, if indeed that is the case, and that therefore you are unable to audit (use that word) the claim fully.

 

Thanks dnc, will do

 

Any views on the other points I mentioned?

Cheers

Gf2k

 

are those ARC payments showing on say Noddle Cra file [below]

 

Hi DX,

I finally got into Noddle and the entire Egg account is not showing in either open or closed accounts.

 

Is Noddle not as fully comprehensive as other credit report sites or am I possibly looking at a filtered view somehow (it doesn't look like it).

 

Is this significant?

Thanks,

gf2k

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they are usually well good on old accounts

 

 

are all your old addresses showing.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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well definitely not there.

 

noddle only latest address but same address for 18+ years so not applicable?

 

also Egg is not showing up on CheckMyFile.com and that shows both my addresses

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ok well as long as you've sent a cca request

and gotten nowt back by Friday I'd file the holding/no paperwork def

 

 

but post it here first

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites
ok well as long as you've sent a cca request

and gotten nowt back by Friday I'd file the holding/no paperwork def

 

 

but post it here first

 

 

dx

 

Sent cpr 31.14

Claim form asked for all communications to (w)right hassle so that's what ive done, hope ok?

 

Although addressed to WH the letter clearly says:

 

Re: Cabot financial (uk) ltd vs (me) - claim number XXXXXX

is that ok or should I send a letter addresses to Cabot in an envelope addressed to WH?

 

I will submit the holding defence here first, could you tell me where i look for a template?

 

 

Thanks, gf2k

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wont hurt but you really should follow what people posting say to do

not interpret your own version or atleast check first.

 

the defence will NOT be a template

 

each is diff as per each PoC.

 

have a look in this forum

or in

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?190-DCA-Legal-Successes

 

so you have NOT sent a CCA request to anyone since the claimform.

 

def deadline is 4pm friday

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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so you have NOT sent a CCA request to anyone since the claimform.

 

apologies dx, I thought the cpr31.14 was the equivalent to a cca request during a claim as i request the agreement within it, so no I haven't sent a cca request since the claim, just the cpr, my mistake.

 

I know it's too little too late but I will send CCA requests first thing tomorrow, all to cabot financial but in envelopes to both addresses, cabot's direct address and WH's address to be sure.

I'll also include another CPR this time made out to cabot.

 

4pm friday

 

forgive my ignorance dx, do you mean the deadline for the defence is 4pm friday?

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the claimant gets the CCA request

the sols gets the CPR

CPR are routinely now ignore or buffed away

 

a CCA request MUST be complied with.

 

CCA request

£1 BLANK PO

don't sign anything.

 

you don't need to duplicate anything to anyone.

 

yes Friday by 4pm to be sure

though you might have a couple of extra days

because of holidays but I wouldn't risk it.

 

dx

 

by the amount of claims you've had in the past and won

I would have thought you would be a master! of it all!!

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Dx,

 

Apologies for delay, I'm with family over xmas and have only just managed to get down to this properly today.

 

Even though as you have pointed out I've had some success in the past that was some time ago

so I've have to relearn/go back over a lot of this and it's taken some time to go through old submissions and examples/posts.

 

As it is I'm submitting via moneyclaim so I have a little more time to submit but less space (122 lines)

so it's taken even more time than expected,

as a result the defence is not as comprehensive as I would like but I'm hoping it will be ok for a holding defence.

 

(for example I wanted to get across the apparent mistake in the POC where the interest is not detailed as required in CPR 16 (dates, percentage, calc etc.),

also the amount claimed as interest in the last sentence is the exact same amount as the entire debt amount claimed in an earlier sentence.)

 

The following is what I ended up with, I'll submit as soon as i have your thoughts:

 

[outdated emb def removed]

I think the second start is slightly better but I'd appreciate your thoughts as to the best version to use.

 

Either way I'm aware that Bank Holiday or not I need to get this in asap so hope to hear from you soon.

 

Many thanks.

Regards,

gf2k

 

Also DX, should I include something re this being possibly statute barred and strict proof otherwise? or is that admittance/not suitable for this?

thanks,

gf2k

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sri but that's out dated embarrassed defence twaddle

that is far far to much unnecessary waffle

 

that kind of depth is for your WS IF you ever have to do one.

 

[wrong thread bit removed]

 

did you send the CCA request????

 

try adapting the one in this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?421754-Please-help-MKDP-claimform-Barclaycard-debt-and-time-limits(1-Viewing)-nbsp&p=4667221#post4667221

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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sorry dx, picked up some of the text from fairly recent posts so thought would be ok, also thought best to use up all the lines as didn't know what the minimum should be.

 

I already sent the cca request on tuesday registered post with £1 postal order so just defence now

 

very glad I waited to hear from you given your assessment but I'm bit freaked out now having to go back to scratch, I was really hoping to submit a holding defence tonight so still todays date for submission.

 

I don't know where to find a new workable version that will suffice, I've done a lot of searching for 'holding defence', 'embarrassed defences etc. so if you could give me an idea what key differences i need to make or perhaps a thread or example to look at I'd appreciate it enormously.

 

BTW This is short version I found but expect it will have the same issue, out of date format?

 

Defence

1.The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR.

 

 

2.Even making allowance for the Northampton Bulk Regime the claim fails to disclose sufficient information as required by the CPR, there is no reference to any account number, no date of alleged agreement, no date of alleged default or details of any default notice served in accordance with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974, the claim is missing vital information.

 

3. Without admission that any cause of action is shown by the Claimant it is denied that the Claimant has a claim whether as pleaded or at all.

 

4. No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered which the defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon

 

5. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimant’s claim appears without merit

 

6.Further to above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

btw merry christmas!

thanks

 

gf2k

 

 

thanks looking now

 

hi dx, I found what looks like the last post to include defence text, from andyorch Post#14 (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?421754-Please-help-MKDP-claimform-Barclaycard-debt-and-time-limits&p=4512693&viewfull=1#post4512693)

is that the version you meant?

 

the main difference appears to be the inclusion of the POC text n separate paragraphs and dealing with each in the following points?

 

thanks

gf2k

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PoC

 

1. the Claimant's claim is for debt arising from the consumer Credit act 1974 Agreement.

 

2. The Claimant is an Assignee of the following debts,

notice of the agreement having been given to the Defendant in writing.

 

3.Egg Credit Card. Account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx #19,xxx.xx.

despite demands for payment, the above sums remain due.

 

4. The Claimant therefore claims the sum of #19,xxx,xx interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?416828-Claim-from-Cabot-Financial-CITI-Associates-Credit-Card-Debt&highlight=wright

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX,

i looked through the thread, didn't see a defence but very encouraging story considering the same claimant/solicitor tag team and minimal POC so thanks for the link.

 

I've added the POCs you posted earlier to AndyOrch's revised holding defence from the other link you gave me and will post here shortly.

 

Hopefully you'll still be around to rubber stamp it later.

 

thanks gf2k

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I wouldn't expand anything bar single lines for each poc paragraph reply

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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will do asap.

 

Hi DX not one liners but would this suffice?

 

POC

1. The Claimant's claim is for debt(s) arising from the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Agreement(s).

2. The Claimant is an Assignee of the following debts, notice of the assignment having been given to the Defendant in writing.

3. Egg Credit Card. Account no. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx #19,xxx.xx. Despite demands for payment, the above sums remain due.

4. The Claimant therefore claims the sum of #19,xxx,xx interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs.

 

#####Defence######

 

1.Paragraph one is noted, I have in the past had financial dealings with EGG

but I am unaware of any balances outstanding. EGG have not contacted with regards to any arrears.

2 Paragraph 2 & 3 are accepted, I believe I did several years ago receive letters from both EGG and the Claimant regarding this debt.

3.Paragraph 4 is denied, The claimant is put to strict proof upon how S.89 statutory interest can equal the total Claim Amount.

 

4.. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request

and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants particulars

to establish what the claim is for.

To date they have failed to comply to my section 78 request and remain in default and also declined to respond with regards to my CPR 31.14

The claim is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;and

(d) show how and when the agreement was breached and provide notice by way of Notice of Sums in Arrears served

by Egg or the claimant has served since any alleged assignment.

 

On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

As per Civil Procedure rules 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5 . Further, by reason of the fact that there is no document which has been signed by the Defendant containing a correct statement of the amount of the credit under the Agreement, and by reason of Section 127(3) of the Act, the Court has no power to make an enforcement order in respect of the Agreement because a term stating the amount of the credit is a prescribed term for the purposes of Sections 61(1)(a) and 127(3), prescribed by the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, regulation 6(1) and paragraph 2 of Schedule 6.

 

9. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

Thanks in advance for your views DX

gf2k

 

Just noticed the numbering is wrong, I'll sort out that out before sending.

 

I've based it on the defence you pointed me to aso hope ok, it feels weird not adding the usual 'embarrassed' and 'amended' defence wording, is it not advisable to include the following at the end or is that not allowed/acceptable anymore?

 

8. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is*

extremely disadvantaged and the claimant’s claim appears without*

merit

9.Further to above the defendant is unable to plead effectively*

or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

Conclusion

10. In view of the matters pleaded above, I respectfully request*

that the court gives consideration to whether the claimant's*

statement of case should be struck out as disclosing no reasonable*

grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply*

with CPR Part 16.

11. In addition, if the claimant cannot produce a credit agreement*

in the prescribed form signed in the prescribed manner by debtor*

and creditor, the court is precluded from making an enforcement*

order under s127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and it is requested*

that the court use its powers under section 142 Consumer Credit*

Act 1974 to declare the agreement unenforceable and strike out the*

claimants case accordingly

12. Having instigated these proceedings without any legal basis*

for doing so, having failed to provide sufficient information*

required under the pre-trial protocols in order to investigate*

this claim, or indeed to provide a reasonable time period to*

investigate this matter, and having failed to investigate a*

dispute as required by the OFT Debt collection Guidelines I*

believe the Claimant's conduct amounts to unlawful harassment*

under section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act.

The defendant respectfully asks the permission of the court to*

amend this defence when the above documents are provided by the*

claimant.

 

Thanks gf2k

 

also, perhgaps silly question but should i/can i change 4. to:

 

4. Shortly after acknowledging the claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request......

 

or is it problematically vague? (I sent them this week so clealry I wouldn't have a reply by now)

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too much keep it simple answer with ONE line for each of the POC paragraphs

there no need to include ANY additional waffle at this stage

 

 

that's for/IF it goes to the WS stage.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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