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GP+hospital appalling treatment of My mother 76 with pneumonia ...sent home still ill!


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I don't think we've seen the OP since 20th August. It might be an idea to wait for them to come back as this thread seems to have quite long times out when we don't hear from layla.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I keep an eye on the NHS board because I'm a former NHS manager.  I saw this thread started years ago and thought I'd have look.   I'm sure it's purely coincidental, but when I got to #61, i

Just to give another view of the NHS and GPs - two GPs probably saved my life last year.   I'd been extremely ill, no appetite, significant weight loss, not taking enough fluids.  Wife took

The GP did send my mum to the wrong ward, upon arrival to this ward, I gave my mothers details at the reception in the ward, my mothers had difficulty breathing, high temperature, not aware of her surroundings, in pain was told to sit in chair and someone would come see her. Nobody came for over 2-3 hours. I asked several members of staff because I was frantic with worry when someone would come to help my mum or even give her oxygen/nebulisers f from a machine as she was struggling to breath.

 

Around 2 hours passed and a health care worker that was passing through I managed to speak to her. I explained 2-3 hours had passed and nobody still had come to see my mother. She immediately said because of my mothers age and her having pneumonia she should not have been sent to this ward by the GP. The GP should have sent us to the elderly ward as she was a priority patient. She said in clear words the GP was at fault.

 

This was not a medical assessment unit - we were sent by the GP to the wrng ward and it would not have been picked up if I did not by luck speak to this health care worker that was passing by.

 

The medical assessment was done once we got to the correct ward - The elderly ward.

 

 

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Hi Honybee,

My mother has never smoked but she has had Asthma - again the GP for reasons mentioned above in this thread is at faulty and I agree with some of points raised by lillywhites.

 

I will be going to the surgery to request my mothers medical notes, I need a letter of authority to show the receptionists to request the medical notes because my mother can't go to the surgery herself.

 

Is there a document I can give to the receptionist to request my mothers medical notes, as they want something in writing.

 

HoneyBeem In the mean time, can you help me start drafting up the initial complaint please

 

unclebulgaria67, can you help me draft up the initial complaint please, so its given in with the deadline. I can also request medical records atthe same time.

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The GP did send my mum to the wrong ward, upon arrival to this ward, I gave my mothers details at the reception in the ward, my mothers had difficulty breathing, high temperature, not aware of her surroundings, in pain was told to sit in chair and someone would come see her. Nobody came for over 2-3 hours. I asked several members of staff because I was frantic with worry when someone would come to help my mum or even give her oxygen/nebulisers f from a machine as she was struggling to breath.

 

Around 2 hours passed and a health care worker that was passing through I managed to speak to her. I explained 2-3 hours had passed and nobody still had come to see my mother. She immediately said because of my mothers age and her having pneumonia she should not have been sent to this ward by the GP. The GP should have sent us to the elderly ward as she was a priority patient. She said in clear words the GP was at fault.

 

This was not a medical assessment unit - we were sent by the GP to the wrng ward and it would not have been picked up if I did not by luck speak to this health care worker that was passing by.

 

The medical assessment was done once we got to the correct ward - The elderly ward.

 

What was the nature of the ward, and (if not any sort of assessment / care of the elderly ward) why didn't the reception staff notice it wasn't the right place?.

 

Again, focusing on what the GP didn't do wrong, or did wrong (but that they'll say wasn't completely due to them and they'll share the blame with someone else!) isn't the way to get them held to account.

Focus on what they did wrong (if anything!) that had a major effect, that is wholly attributable to them.

 

If you focus on the ward issue, the most likely outcome even if you are correct is "yes, the GP apologizes for their error. However, the ward should have corrected it, so the effect of the GP's error alone should have been minimal" with the apology being the only outcome.

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Complaints and suing are 2 independent processes.

 

Complaints got either to the practice, or NHS England.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/complaints-and-feedback/Pages/nhs-complaints.aspx

 

You can't sue on your mother's behalf, she (or her estate if she dies before the complaint commences) needs to do so within 3 years of the event / harm (or 'constructive knowledge' of the event / harm).

 

Any court claim must be lodged within 3 years of the event / harm (or first 'constructive knowledge' of it).

 

That doesn't mean you have 3 years to complain, though. As noted complaints and suing are different processes.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/complaints-and-feedback/Pages/nhs-complaints.aspx

You can complain in writing, by email or by speaking to someone in the organisation. You should make your complaint within 12 months of the incident or within 12 months of the matter coming to your attention. This time limit can sometimes be extended as long as it is still possible to investigate your complaint.

Anyone can complain, including young people. A family member, carer, friend or your local MP can complain on your behalf with your permission.

They may decline to investigate a complaint about the 2014 events as being 'out of time', in which case issuing a claim may be the only option if you still feel you have a provable case. Watch out for the time limits.

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unclebulgaria67, can you help me draft up the initial complaint please, so its given in with the deadline. I can also request medical records atthe same time.

 

Never had need to draft any medical complaint, so not really best person to help. You need help from someone who understands medical complaints processes and knows what key words to use in such a complaint.

 

If i were in this position, i would have a search around online for any documents about GP responsibilities and complaints where they have failed. The initial complaint letter needs to make clear that you are starting a formal complaint and that you wish it to be registered as such. Then you state very briefly what grounds you have for complaint. As has been explained to you, the grounds for complaint need to be where the GP has failed to do something they should have done based on information they had at the time. It can't be based on hindsight information and must be directly related to GP's conducts that caused your Mum to suffer.

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At the risk of sounding like a bit of a monster; Layla, you've been drafting this letter for 984 days. You've received several different views on how to do this and all you really need do is copy/paste from this thread onto a word document. When I'm dealing with a patient's complaint I don't sit and score the grammar or syntax, I don't really care if there are spelling mistakes or the dates aren't exact because I can get those later from our records.

 

Please, decide what it is you want to do and what outcome you're seeking and then act on it. You're perfectly capable of explaining the problems on here so if you do truly want to complain then do something sooner rather than later. As it stands any chance of anyone recalling your mums trip to hospital from memory is gone, as such any anecdotal evidence is already lost. I speak with patients on a daily basis and can probably recall conversations from a couple of weeks ago, but never from 2 and a half years ago. So, the only thing that can act in your favour now are the clinical records and as you'll see when you read them, they're not narrative accounts of everything that happened, just a brief history of clinically relevant information.

 

I really hope that you get the outcome you're looking for but the longer you leave it, the less likely it is.

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  • 6 months later...

First of all the hospital would have performed a simple blood test when your mother arrived on the ward. It is called a CRP. ( C-Reactive protein) This test measures the level of inflammation. NICE as issued guidelines on what actions to take at differing levels. The scale goes from 4 to 285.

 

I had bilateral pneumonia and Septicemia my reading was 285...Basically I came very close to meeting my maker. The other simple test that would have done is taking your mother's oxygen Saturations. It is a small device placed on your finger. My own was 88% my lungs were barely working. I was placed on oxygen. The x-ray and CT scan came later.

 

My point is that pneumonia can be treated at home. This Christmas I went to the emergency centre after ringing 111. My CRP was 120, my Oxygen Saturations 97% so I was sent home on antibiotics. I had community acquired pneumonia. You need to find out what your mother's basic observations were. Pneumonia from my own experience was very painful.

 

Hospitals follow guidelines for both sepsis and pneumonia. If she had a lower CRP and good 02 Saturations then it's possible she would have met the criteria for discharge. I would advise you to check what they were. As for the actions of the porters and nurse etc that should have not happened.

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  • 1 month later...
First of all the hospital would have performed a simple blood test when your mother arrived on the ward. It is called a CRP. ( C-Reactive protein) This test measures the level of inflammation. NICE as issued guidelines on what actions to take at differing levels. The scale goes from 4 to 285.

 

I had bilateral pneumonia and Septicemia my reading was 285...Basically I came very close to meeting my maker. The other simple test that would have done is taking your mother's oxygen Saturations. It is a small device placed on your finger. My own was 88% my lungs were barely working. I was placed on oxygen. The x-ray and CT scan came later.

 

My point is that pneumonia can be treated at home. This Christmas I went to the emergency centre after ringing 111. My CRP was 120, my Oxygen Saturations 97% so I was sent home on antibiotics. I had community acquired pneumonia. You need to find out what your mother's basic observations were. Pneumonia from my own experience was very painful.

 

Hospitals follow guidelines for both sepsis and pneumonia. If she had a lower CRP and good 02 Saturations then it's possible she would have met the criteria for discharge. I would advise you to check what they were. As for the actions of the porters and nurse etc that should have not happened.

 

 

CRP is a useful test, but not one of the markers used for initial assesement of severity of Community Acquired Pneumonia, which is the CURB-65 score

Confusion, Urea, Respiratory rate, Blood Pressure, and age over 65 or not. One mark for each present, so score of 0 to 5.

 

A young, fit, person with a CURB score of 1 (so likely suitable for home treatment with oral antibiotics) might have widely different CRP based on which bug is causing their pneumonia (Pneumococcal pneumonia likely being highest, as the capsule of pneumococcus is a potent stimulator of CRP production!) . So, CRP is part, but not all, of the picture.

In addition, if a GP decides someone is suitable for home treatment, they may not get a CRP performed........ why do the test, if they feel they already have enough information to make the decision!.

 

CURB65 isn't perfect (if misapplied, to someone who doesn't have pneumonia, but is over 65 and confused usually e.g. has dementia, they score 2 even in the absence of a pneumonia!), but is widely used, and if applied correctly is useful.

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  • 2 years later...

To summarise I sent a letter of complaint to the surgery and got a reply back which said

 

'I have asked [removed -dx]  for feedback in regards to the letter and she is unable to recollect the consultation.

I am sure you can appreciate a dr can see on average 30 to 40 patients a day and so remembering every consultation is very especially after 2 years.

 

Copy of consulatation is below with [removed -dx] 

 

(goes to describe the dr notes that day)

 

From reviewing the above I cannot find fault with the above consultation.

 

It is unfortunate that your mother was sent to the wrong ward and I apologise for this.

I am a little confused as to why when she arrived at the hospital the admisssionss team didn't pick up on this and send her to the correct ward (she was sent to the wrong ward becaue the GP wrote the wrong ward number on the letter and also told us to go to the ward on the letter that she wrote on the envelope, so its the dr's fault for the wrong ward)

 

Once again I am sorry I am unable to answer all your converns but as mentioned above the time length of time to raise this complaint has made it difficult.

 

 

This I find strange because a few months ago my mother had an appoitment with the very same gp and we both waited in reception, over 20 mins passed and I asked the receptinist what is the delay the receptionist told me the dr is busy, i went back and waited.

 

By this time almost 40 mins had passed and nothing

i went back to the receptonist and asked her she checked the pc and discretely told me '[removed -dx]  has refused to see your mother because she made a complaint against her etc'

 

And the appointment was then moved to another GP who we explained what just happened and he was shocked.

 

I want to raise a complaint to the GMC for this dr for the mistakes the gp made

 

Prior to the original post my mother had seen this gp with crackling cough, difficuly breathing, early signs of pneomonia etc but the gp said 'i am not going to give you any medicine' and sent my mother home with mo medication.

This was the same thing to do, gp failed and this then lead to the visit as in the original post

 

I now want to raise a complaint to the GMC on the basis of the earlier justified complaint made against her,

Gp's are supposed to be neautral and not take things personal but this gp is being wrong in her actions and

 

I want to raise this and her mistakes in the orginal post where she said 'go home take paracetamol, there is no pneumonia and only after I objected and insisted the dr use stethoscope to check the lungs and breathing did the GP then tell us it was pneumonia and then she sent us to the wrong hospital ward where we were not seen for over 5 hours and during this time my mothers condition got worse.

 

A report from Care Quality Commission said the inspection said:

“The practice not always provide care in a way that kept patients safe and protected them from avoidable harm.

Patients not receive effective care and treatment that met their needs etc'

 

I need your help to draft a complain letter to the GMC for against this GP

Please can you help me thank you

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi.

 

I'm afraid I can't help you to write a letter about something that complicated, maybe other people can.

 

Could I just ask please if you've complained to the GMC twice as your post seems to indicate?

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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For information, this is what the GMC says about raising a concern about a doctor.

 

What we can't help you with is:

  • giving you an explanation of what happened to you
  • ordering a doctor to give you the treatment you want or access to your records
  • helping you with a claim for compensation
  • fining a doctor or make a doctor apologise.

See the other support organisations who can help you in the country where you received treatment in the UK.

 

https://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/information-for-patients/local-help-services

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi Honeybee13

 

I lodged the formal complaint at the gp surgery within the 3 year deadline.

The reply i received is summarised in post #61

I've not complained to the GMC before only to the gp surgery

 

Should I send a letter of complaint to the surgery for last year when the same gp kept us waiting for over 40 mins, not wanting to see my mother because of the 1st original complaint made against her (this goes against the gp's 'unable to recollect the consultation' - because the gp made us wait over 40 mins then refused to see us because of the complaint which shows they had recollection and the only reason to refuse to see my mother last year is because of the original claim made against her?

 

This particular gp at the practice has many bad reviews on google so it is a common practice bad behaviour from this gp and nobody speaking out that is allowing this gp to get away with such appalling behaviour

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Sounds like it was pretty sensible of the GP to transfer you to another one when their system flagged up that you had made a complaint a few years back. 

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I’m uncertain, so perhaps you could clear things up: are the GMC complaints about events in 2014, 2017, or 2020 (&, if mixed, which are when?)

 

Also : will it be you, or your Mum, complaining to the GMC?

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Really, this has been going on for almost 6 years now, any chance of anyone recalling anything that happened is absolutely zero. I’m sorry, the ship has sailed and any reasonable opportunity to get the type of answers you’re seeking or financial compensation is long since gone. 

My views are my own and are not representative of any organisation. if you've found my post helpful please click on the star below.

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I keep an eye on the NHS board because I'm a former NHS manager.  I saw this thread started years ago and thought I'd have look.

 

I'm sure it's purely coincidental, but when I got to #61, it reminded me of a different poster on a different thread from last year.  They aren't identical, but the way things are expressed are remarkably similar.  (eg 20 min wait - ask receptionist - Drs are very busy - wait another 20 min - ask again - receptionist checks computer - says Dr has refused to see you because of complaint 2 years ago - transferred to another GP who expresses "shock" at other Dr's behaviour - vague and confusing references to a "justified" complaint.

 

Maybe it's just me, but they seem remarkably similar, although the other thread is missing a 2014, 2016, 2017 backstory.

 

 

layla_83   As others have already said, there seems little point in complaining now about issues that stem from things that happened in 2014 (and 2016?).  If you wanted to complain to "put the system right", you should have done that six years ago.  Even if the original GP is still about, they won't remember any of it, so there will be absolutely no opportunity for them to learn any lessons from it.  And the fact that the original GP did not want to see you (or rather your mother) because you (she) had made a complaint against them two years ago most certainly does not mean that the GP remembers anything from 2014, it just means that you (or your mother) are flagged up on their system as a "complainer".  As I asked a year ago, why would anyone be unhappy because a GP they had previously complained about refused to see them?  You should be relieved!!!  You say the GP should not take the complaint personally, but if I were a GP I would not want to treat anyone who has made a complaint against me.  (And if you are connected to that other thread, you should have complained to your local CCG or the GMC by now).

 

You were going to send a letter of complaint to the practice in 2017, so why only now complain about their response?  Did it take them nearly three years to reply?

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Just to give another view of the NHS and GPs - two GPs probably saved my life last year.

 

I'd been extremely ill, no appetite, significant weight loss, not taking enough fluids.  Wife took me to A&E.  Terrible experience.  After four hours told my wife to take me home.  She said "told you this was a mistake.  I'll get you an emergency GP appointment tomorrow".  Saw a GP Registrar (essentially a trainee GP) following afternoon.  She was very concerned and asked a colleague for a second opinion.  Second GP was horrified as soon as she saw me, and said "You ought to be in hospital".  She told the trainee to arrange to have me admitted to hospital and just over two hours later (after my wife had driven me there) I was in bed on a medical assessment ward.  Stayed in hospital for a week and was only discharged because they needed the bed.

 

I was going to complain about my A&E experience (I think the triage nurse must have screwed up my triage assessment) but a week after I was discharged, I had to take my wife to A&E as her optician thought she might have a detached retina.  It was about 5:30pm on a Saturday and the place was full of injured footballers and rugby players.  It was much busier than it had been on the Monday afternoon I'd been there, but my wife saw a doctor in 20 mins and we were out in 40 mins.  I decided that sometimes you're just unlucky...

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I want to complain about the orginal GP in this post not seeing my mother last year because of a complaint made against her a few years.

 

The appoitment was with the gp mentioned in this thread, my mother had to wait over 40mins to be told the the gp did not want to see my mother because of the complaint made against this gp 3 years. The appointment had to then be moved to another gp this took even more time. It was over 1hr before we seen the gp.

 

Why did the gp keep us waiting for so long, this is what the complaint is about, why make my mother wait for over 1hr etc

 

I don't want any compensation I want this gp to realise what she is doing is ethically wrong in her series of actions towards my mother

 

 

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I'm afraid I can't see a breach of ethics in what the GP did but maybe you've seen something on the GMC website that shows they acted unethically.

 

Perhaps you could point us towards that please.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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To add to my post, I've waited over an hour to see the GP I had an appointment with on a couple of occasions at least, without the complication of having fallen out with the GP. One time there was an emergency at a local old people's home and we all had to wait until the doctor got back from dealing with that.

 

My feeling was that if I'd been the emergency I would have wanted the doctor to get to me quickly, surgery hours or not.

 

Are you and your mother with the same practice?

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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A likely reason is a breakdown in therapeutic relationship. When a complaint occurs it’s sometimes reasonable to assume that the trust between patient and doctor is damaged to the extent where it’s no longer possible to offer effective treatment. It then makes perfect sense to have the patient deal with another clinician who can take the relationship from a clean slate. 
 

Delays in appointments happen all of the time for a myriad of reasons from doctors being stuck in traffic to previous patient requiring resuscitation and everything in between. Unfortunately you’re again in a situation where the incident happened at least six months ago and you’re attempting to rely on the recall of people who are in the midst of a global pandemic to remember a relatively uneventful day before Xmas 2019 when a GP was running late. 
 

That delay again brings the likelihood of getting a meaningful response to practically zero, requiring the practice staff to trawl through all the records of that morning to see if the cause of the delay is documented, and then say: ‘sorry, we were running late because another patient really needed us’ 

 

I’d honestly suggest your mother finding an alternative practice if she’s unsatisfied with the care she’s receiving from her current one and acting promptly if an issue arises.  

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6 hours ago, layla_83 said:

I want to complain about the orginal GP in this post not seeing my mother last year because of a complaint made against her a few years.

 

The appoitment was with the gp mentioned in this thread, my mother had to wait over 40mins to be told the the gp did not want to see my mother because of the complaint made against this gp 3 years. The appointment had to then be moved to another gp this took even more time. It was over 1hr before we seen the gp.

 

Why did the gp keep us waiting for so long, this is what the complaint is about, why make my mother wait for over 1hr etc

 

I don't want any compensation I want this gp to realise what she is doing is ethically wrong in her series of actions towards my mother

 

 

I understand that you are feeling wronged here but we are in the middle of a global pandemic, they have more important priorities right now, than dealing with a complaint about a complaint ,from years ago.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to GP+hospital appalling treatment of My mother 76 with pneumonia ...sent home still ill!
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