hsbc - old Midland Bank Loan

[firstship]

Hi...

.new member..

 

 

..I have spent some considerable time looking at Consumer Forum

and have followed various threads

and used the advice posted to write to

Sainsburys Bank,

Halifax bank,

HSBC,

Barclaycard,

 

 

asking for CCA

 

 

I enclosed the postal order for £1,

 

 

my letters dated 25th January 2009.

 

 

to date no reply apart from a Formal Notice from Halifax.

 

 

I get the feeling I should have started a thread back in January and followed advice from the begining.

 

 

However I hope it is not to late to ask what is the next step that I should take

as I am keen to find out if the CCAs are unenforcable.....

 

 

.....HELP

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, firstship.

 

Your right, starting new threads for each of your debt is the way to go

It's not to late, do just that and keep them updated, there's always someone around to help you out.

 

It just makes it so much easier if the debts are all on their own thread.

 

If you need a hand with anything just shout.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[firstship]

My HSBC thread been very quiet,

 

 

sent CCA1974s77/78 back in January 2009,

 

 

sent default letter Feb 15th 2009,

 

 

NO REPLY..

 

 

.Letter arrived today June 10th 2009.as follows//

 

 

/// We write further to your letter dated 15 February 2009 and apologise for the delay.

 

 

Regrettably we are not at this time able to comply with the above request.

Whilst we will make efforts to comply with your request ,

we are not able to give an estimate of when we will be able to do so.

 

 

We understand that until we do this we will be unable to take action in the courts to seek recovery of the debt.

 

 

However your legal liability for the outstanding debt is not in doubt and we will continue to look to you to honour that debt.

 

 

We are obliged to report to credit reference agencies any failure to repay such debt

and this remains unaffected by whether we have or have not at the relevant time complied

with the requirements of sections 77/78 of the CCA 1974..

 

 

..signed Senior Manager HSBC.......

 

 

....I find this letter from HSBC beyond belief,

do I ask them to read the act,

and supply further their interpretation of the ACT..

 

 

..do I send a letter listing those items they cannot enforce whilst in Default..

 

 

..Do i press the point in their letter regarding Credit Reference agencies.......

 

 

........ANY THOUGHTS ON WHICH WAY TO GO WITH THIS LETTER....

 

 

....Thanks FIRSTSHIP

[firstship]

Hi......any views on the thread posted 12th June from HSBC any ideas which is the best route to take.......thanks...Firstship

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved to HSBC Forum.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

 

I'm afraid it's standard procedure from these so called responsible companies.

 

They say you had the money so we can stuff your credit file even if we don't actually have your permission via a fully valid CCA. The worst thing is, is that the ICO tend to agree with them.

 

The only way I have seen so far is to force the issue and take them to court but beware, they do tend to look that little bit harder when push comes to shove.

[johnnymitch]

Hi firstship , welcome to the forum

 

To avoid being at their whims I think it's probably better to push them a bit - force them to admit whether or not they have the documents you're looking for .... although I do take silver's point that in rare cases they may come up with them at the 11th hour......

 

There is a letter on this link which may help :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/110742-bls-no-cca-but.html#post1143624

 

I also came across this recently which I thought was quite a good way of forcing their hand ........

 

"PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)"

 

Incidentally remember , if you sign anything , make sure you put a couple of crosses behind it so it can't be 'lifted' - not that I'm suggesting for a minute that they'd do that , but some less reputable firms have been known to try it ....

[firstship]

Silverfox1961///johnnymitch....thanks for your replies,will do as you suggest try perhaps a gentle shove.along the lines of Ezsias v Welsh mininsters,THANKS FOR YOUR HELP......Firstship

[johnnymitch]

No problem, firstship - let's know how you get on - it'll help others in the same position

[firstship]

had a reply from HSBC looks like they cannot produce the required document or is this just a waiting game and being non commital,however a result which I am pleased with keep you posted

[johnnymitch]

Well , they have complied with your request and told you they can't produce firstship - that's a result !

 

And they've even taken the trouble to notify FOS for you - how nice of them ........

 

I can't see how this can be a waiting game being played by them .... without an agreement this debt is unenforceable ..... which means it's still there , but they can't chase you for it , because they can't prove you owe it .

But watch it - in a few weeks time they'll maybe pass it to a DCA (although they're not supposed to , because it's in Dispute ....) and the DCA will chase you until you tell them to back off because it's unenforceable - and in dispute until they formally abandon it ......

 

Like you I can't believe they said what they did in #3 about still being able to report you to CCAs for non-payment of a debt they cannot prove exists

 

It may be better to try heading them off at the pass with a letter something like :

 

"

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Remember, print your name, don't sign.

[johnnymitch]

Oops -double posted !

[maroondevo52]

Oops -double posted !

 

Plonker

[johnnymitch]

Hey MD - you don't speak to me for weeks and the first thing you say is "Plonker!" :lol:

 

In this case you were kind of stating the obvious though ........LOL!

[firstship]

Hi JONNYMITCH...........thanks very much like the letter will use this.I need a DCA chasing me like a collection of brain cells,still as you say its in dispute and unenforceable and should this happen I DONT WISH TO DEAL WITH YOU BECAUSE OF DISPUTE AND REFER THEM BACK TO HSBC...thanks again for your help....Firstship:confused:

[johnnymitch]

There's a letter for that too if you need it , firstship

 

Have you considered reporting them to the FOS for the statement they made in that letter in #3 ? . That is blatant flouting of the rules ...... in writing too .... they really are either arrogant or simply plain stupid !

Edited June 29, 2009 by johnnymitch

[firstship]

JM will do just that report them to the FOS the more I think about it the more it troubles me that its yet another case of Banks bending the rules or putting their interpretation on CCA1974 requests.If you get time look at my thread.....natwest v firstship.Which is a great result but more important the Natwest Bank have put in writing what the Bank are required to do on receipt of a CCA1974...............thanks agin for your help next letter FOS compaint against HSBC,

[firstship]

JM.phoned the FOS ran through the nuts and bolts of the HSBC letter,they think I have a valid complaint and are sending the FOS complaint form to me.............keep you informed ...thanks

[maroondevo52]

Good stuff, firstship.

 

Johnny's a good man, he'll keep you right

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[johnnymitch]

Well done firstship - way to go ! Don't hold your breath waiting for FOS to give you a result , but at least you've started the ball rolling ........ and yes please , keep us posted ......

 

Once you get a case no . from FOS don't forget to quote it on any correspondence to HSBC ...just to remind them it's definitely 'In Dispute'

 

I'm afraid I can't get enough magnification on your letter from Natwest - can you try reposting it please(maybe via photobucket ) and let me know if you manage it ......

[firstship]

Silence for months.... now had the threatening letter from MCS,have written to them using 42man letter(thanks again) suggesting they send the account which I do not acknowledge back to HSBC as it is in serious dispute,have also written to HSBC amazed they have transferred the account to MCS without advising me and reminding them the account is in dispute(They admit they cannot produce signed copy of the agreement) Had 3 days of MCS they are a pain in the AR......e phone calls letters.QUESTION.......what is the best route to take now with MCS and HSBC............????????????? thanks Firstship

[johnnymitch]

Hi firstship

 

If you've got it in writing that they can't produce the agreement , I'd let 'em sweat ....... they can't take you to court or chase you for any money which they can't prove you owe them ......

 

If it's not an admission in writing , wait and see what they come back with from your latest letters - come back and we can take it from there ..... but basically ...... no agreement ... the alleged debt is unenforceable ......

 

Sorry first ship, I should have read further back ..... I think you've done all you can .... for now .... let 'em sweat .....

Edited October 3, 2009 by johnnymitch

[firstship]

johnymitch.....................thanks for the reply very helpful I will just not communicate with them unless absoluteley necessary.....Firstship

[johnnymitch]

Probably the best course of action firstship , the ball is really in their court at the moment .... let's see how they play it !

 

But, of course, come back if you need more help........

 

btw ...thanks for tipping my scales . ...much appreciated

[firstship]

Now had an absolute stinking letter from MCS the threats are unbelievable,they say only HSBC can take the account back for resolution I have told them you are HSBC and HSBC are still in serious default and breachesTHE mcs letter is threat of DG solicitors,(HSBC again) court action and an order to take payments out of my part time job salary direct any ideas of the type of letter to MCS,I should send,ONLY PRINTABLE REPLIES PLEASE...............thanks Firstship..sorry as you can imagine I am really P..........d OF with their attitude and getting quite up tight about it