Ding Ding... Round 5, MKDP/Barclaycard/Goldfish/MSDW v Spam.

[Spamalot]

Nah !!

 

Can't make out the T&C's even with specs, which brings the document into question on the grounds of legibility.

 

I'll ask for expert opinion on this.

 

Hi Slick and thanks for your input... sorry you had the inconvenience of finding your specs. ;-)

 

I have attempted to copy out the 'financial particulars' into word and I believe this to be what they have sent me... (had to take my specs off... never seen such small 'small print' )

 

Financial and related Particulars.

 

• 1.We shall determine the credit limit and the cash credit limit from time to time and shall notify these to you
  
• 2. Interest rate for balance transfers made by 01/03/00 and other amounts payable in relation to such Balance Transfers 0.565% per month for the period of 6 months following the date of the balance transfer concerned and thereafter at the rate of 1.388 (?) % per month.
  
• 3. Interest rates for cash advances and other amounts payable in relation to such transactions ???% per month.
  
• 4. Interest rates for purchases and all other amounts payable under the agreement not mentioned in 2 or 3 above 1.388% per month.
  
• 5. We shall charge a cash advance fee of 1.5% of the amount of the transaction concerned or £1.50 (whichever is the greater).
  
• 6. Each month when there is an outstanding balance on the account you must make payment on or before the 25th day after the relevant monthly statement date unless we allow you to make a reduced payment or no payment as described in condition 6.8. Your statement will show you the due date for payment. You must pay at least the minimum payment plus any arrears on the account as at the date of the relevant statement. The minimum payment will be £5 or 2% of the account balance as shown on the relevant statement (whichever is the greater) plus any amount by which the account balance is over the credit limit as at the date of the relevant statement. If the account balance is less than £5 the minimum payment will be the account balance. Your statement will show the Minimum payment and the amount of any arrears on the account as at the relevant statement date.
  
• 7. We may at our discretion in accordance with condition 6.8 occasionally allow you to make a reduced payment or no payment for a period of our choosing in which case we will continue to charge interest and not extend the period within which payment should be made to avoid interest on purchases.
  
• 8. APR for purchases 17.9%. APR for Cash Advances 20.4%. APR for balance transfers made by 01/03/00 6.9% for the period of 6 months following the date of the Balance Transfer concerned and thereafter at the rate of 17.9%.
  
• 9. We may at our discretion vary any interest rate (apart from the period or rate of any special interest rate on certain balance transfers notified to you as part of a promotion under condition 10.4) at any time after giving you at least 7 days prior written notice and we may at our discretion vary the amount of any other fees or charges payable under the agreement or any of the other terms of this agreement at any time after giving you at least 30 days prior written notice.
  
• 10. In working out the APR we have not taken into account any changes which may occur in the interest rates mentioned above or in the amount of rate of the Cash Advance Fee nor have we taken account of any potential benefits payable under the Cashback bonus programme in addition we have assumed that all transactions are in Sterling and have based the APR on a credit limit of £2000.
  

So apart from it really being pretty illegible from the print point of view I think there may be flaws where they have referred to ' conditions 6.8 and 10.4' as they are nowhere to be seen and I assume these conditions should form part of the document to make it enforceable.

 

The document has not been signed by an MSDW rep

 

and the credit limit of £2000 is only being stated as a basis of the APR so as far as I can see no credit limit is specified...

 

There is no information whatsoever of any charges that could be levied.

 

These are just my limited observations and I welcome expert opinion on this.

 

The boxes below the 'particulars' refer to 'rights' and 'Loss or Misuse of Credit Card They are pretty indecipherable but I can give it a go if need be.

 

Thanks, Spam.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Spamalot
Highlighting text

[slick132]

Hi Spammy,

 

Steven has looked at the doc't and said it is probably enforceable.

 

However, I've also asked for comment about the "conditions" not being included on the doc't you rec'd.

[Spamalot]

Hi Slick, and a big thank you to you and Steven for your time.

 

Steven is probably sick of looking at documents for me by now! (only another 2 to go when they arrive!)

 

If the document does prove to be enforceable then I guess it's not the end of the world 'cause it's one of my smaller debts and strangely enough... Despite my not paying this month, they sent me a statement saying my account was overdue and then refunded me some interest!!

 

Weird.:-| but something I could get used to

 

Spam.

[Hopster]

how do I start a thread please ?

[Spamalot]

how do I start a thread please ?

Hi Hopster.

 

if you want to start a thread in the Barclaycard forum just go to the top of the page and scroll down the left hand side there will be a 'new thread button.

 

if you need more info there is this..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

Good luck.

[Hopster]

thx

[slick132]

Steven says the agreement appears to be enforceable as it includes the Prescribed Terms, regardless of reference to conditions which are not included in the agreement itself.

 

As you have managed to read and type out the small print which we couldn't see clearly on photobucket, the document does not fail on the grounds of illegibility.

[Spamalot]

Steven says the agreement appears to be enforceable as it includes the Prescribed Terms, regardless of reference to conditions which are not included in the agreement itself.

 

As you have managed to read and type out the small print which we couldn't see clearly on photobucket, the document does not fail on the grounds of illegibility.

 

Cool thanks... worth a try;-)

 

I'll get back to paying them again...

 

Still...there's always the Goldfish Card... That was HFC as OC and if my marbles account is anything to go by.....

 

Thanks again. Spammie.

[the_shadow]

...of course being a devils advocate here.....

 

Is this a copy from a microfiche or is it a real paper agreement they have?

 

S.

[Spamalot]

I would think by the size of the copy it's a microfiche... it's only about a 1/3rd of an A4 page... why?

 

MSDWApplication.jpg picture by Spamalot_bucket - Photobucket

 

Thats the view before I 'cropped it'.. you can see the distance between the side and the bottom of the A4 page.

 

Also it's got the app form and what I think was a fold and seal bit with the financial parts tagged onto the bottom of the form.. In fact looking at it closely I'm not even sure if it's joined!!!

 

Spam.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Spamalot

[the_shadow]

I would think by the size of the copy it's a microfiche... it's only about a 1/3rd of an A4 page... why?

 

Opens up a whole different kettle of fish if its a copy of a badly scanned microfiche if it ever gets to court.

 

The fact that this application would have been scanned by someone in MSDW and then its been sold to Barclaycard means it has a very suspect audit trail witnessed by the fact that Barclaycard's barrister has admitted to another CAGGER that they have a problem finding peoples old agreements as they were handed over in a state of chaos.

 

Being a copy means you can question this audit trail at court stage and Barclaysharks will now this.

 

S.

Edited June 17, 2009 by the_shadow
Re-read supporting evidence threads and changed comment accordingly

[Spamalot]

OOOOOOOOOOHHHH interesting! Thank you.. I won't give up yet then.

 

I think I shall demand a more legible copy and see what happens.. as I edited above, on closer inspection I'm not 100% sure that the terms are actually attached to the form because it's too blurry to see.

 

Thanks Shadow.

[the_shadow]

OOOOOOOOOOHHHH interesting! Thank you.. I won't give up yet then.

 

I think I shall demand a more legible copy and see what happens.. as I edited above, on closer inspection I'm not 100% sure that the terms are actually attached to the form because it's too blurry to see.

 

Thanks Shadow.

 

I've gone back to read the relevant thread SMt37 vs barclaycard and as such have edited the comments in the post above.

 

S.

[Spamalot]

Hi all,

 

 

Just a teensy weensy query regarding the enforceabilty of the MSDW Application.

 

I cannot see a signature for MSDW anywhere on the paper copy that I have. (unless it's hiding in one of the black bits I can't read)

 

Would that make the agreement enforceable but improperly executed?

 

If so, what would be the implications of that if any?

 

I intend to get a more legible copy if poss but I'm still awaiting SAR's to see if there is a better one in there.

 

I've also had NOTHING back re my CA request with regards to my Goldfish account... not even a T&C.

 

Spam.

[the_shadow]

Hi all,

 

 

Just a teensy weensy query regarding the enforceabilty of the MSDW Application.

 

I cannot see a signature for MSDW anywhere on the paper copy that I have. (unless it's hiding in one of the black bits I can't read)

 

Would that make the agreement enforceable but improperly executed?

 

If so, what would be the implications of that if any?

 

I intend to get a more legible copy if poss but I'm still awaiting SAR's to see if there is a better one in there.

 

I've also had NOTHING back re my CA request with regards to my Goldfish account... not even a T&C.

 

Spam.

 

If its not signed you are correct in that its not properly executed and therefore enforceable only by a court. However if this is the only thing wrong with it then the court would in my opinion enforce the agreement.

 

S.

[Spamalot]

If its not signed you are correct in that its not properly executed and therefore enforceable only by a court. However if this is the only thing wrong with it then the court would in my opinion enforce the agreement.

 

S.

 

Thanks S.

 

Just updating with my new thread as I have received a semi result of my SAR with regards to the Goldfish Card and I thought it best to start a new thread as it could get confusing where the accounts have 'morphed' amongst HFC/GOLDFISH/MSDW/BARCLAYCARD...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/207515-spamalot-barclaycard-goldfish-hfc.html

 

 

Spam.

[Spamalot]

Hi Folks,

 

Barclaycard have surpassed themselves today with a reply to my SAR on this account.

 

Today I received a letter stating...

 

Further to a recent letter received fom you,requesting certain information.

 

Please find enclosed copies of the information which we hold.

Any other details requested which are available will be sent to you from the appropriate areas.

 

Kind Regards,

 

In the envelope was..... wait for it..... Drum roll..... NOTHING!

 

It was just the letter and b**ger all else.

 

They are just so non specific you can't even tell what was supposed to be in there... It's worse than a spy novel... perhaps it's in code.

 

There was another envelope though, and that had the same letter as the above plus a copy of the covering letter they sent with my 'Credit agreement'.

 

Does anybody else think the Staff at Barclaycard have their heads up their backsides or is it just me who has that impression of them.

 

Onwards and upwards... I hate Barclaycard,

 

Spam.

[the_shadow]

In the envelope was..... wait for it..... Drum roll..... NOTHING!

 

It was just the letter and b**ger all else.

 

 

Spam.

 

Hi Spam... yep have had the same... also a letter saying agreement to follow.... 8 weeks later.. nothing

 

Dont think the company knows what they are doing to be honest.

 

S.

[Spamalot]

Hi Spam... yep have had the same... also a letter saying agreement to follow.... 8 weeks later.. nothing

 

Dont think the company knows what they are doing to be honest.

 

S.

 

It certainly makes you wonder if it's incompetence or whether this is a ploy to confuse and frustrate the majority of customers to see if they can baffle us into submission.

It wouldn't surprise me if they all sat in an office at a round table with their letters and envelopes saying 'ok, you pass your letter to the right and the envelope to the left and then 'stuff' what you've got in front of you' just like a giant party game.

 

 

Spam.

[the_shadow]

It certainly makes you wonder if it's incompetence or whether this is a ploy to confuse and frustrate the majority of customers to see if they can baffle us into submission.

It wouldn't surprise me if they all sat in an office at a round table with their letters and envelopes saying 'ok, you pass your letter to the right and the envelope to the left and then 'stuff' what you've got in front of you' just like a giant party game.

 

 

Spam.

 

 

haha cue someone turning the lights off and pressing play on a tape machine :-D

 

S.

Edited July 14, 2009 by the_shadow
Doh!!!

[Hopster]

All very interesting. I, via a solicitor, am issuing proceedings against them for witholdind information as they haven't sent documentation as requested re. Liverpool Victoria to Goldfish and then to Barclaycard who have just sent me a new card !! -can't go into too much detail as they hunt around on these consumer sites to see what they can pick up.

[Spamalot]

All very interesting. I, via a solicitor, am issuing proceedings against them for witholdind information as they haven't sent documentation as requested re. Liverpool Victoria to Goldfish and then to Barclaycard who have just sent me a new card !! -can't go into too much detail as they hunt around on these consumer sites to see what they can pick up.

Do you have a thread on this Hopster? It definitely sounds as if what you are doing could be very useful. If not just keep us posted so to speak..

 

Spam.

[Beck1968]

All very interesting. I, via a solicitor, am issuing proceedings against them for witholdind information as they haven't sent documentation as requested re. Liverpool Victoria to Goldfish and then to Barclaycard who have just sent me a new card !! -can't go into too much detail as they hunt around on these consumer sites to see what they can pick up.

 

 

Well by my avatar they certainly will know who i am :lol:

 

Read and Learn BC

[Spamalot]

They are being silly again.

 

I received my monthly statement for this account today... As they had sent me a copy of the CA I decided not to continue my 'dispute' on this account for the time being and paid them their agreed monthly payment. It was a tad late so it missed last months statement so I have 2 payments shown on this months.

 

As they have stopped charging interest (despite writing to me and saying they will ) I gave them a dash extra this month to bring the balance down a bit more. Lo and behold on the 3rd sheet of the statement It shows only the one payment and I am told I am in arrears and they have sent me a shiney 'arrears information sheet' ( If I get many more of these I'll be able to paper my downstairs loo!)

 

Page 2 shows 2 payments of more than agreed amount ..... page 3 shows 1 payment.... Nope still can't work out the logic in that one...

 

I hate Barclaycard,

 

Spam.

 

Just letting of steam..8)

[Spamalot]

Hi Spam,

 

They haven't come up with any form at all for me, but I'm sure that the application form had different pictures of fish! Exactly.. thats what I remember... I think there were 2 or 3 for visa and a different 2 or 3 for Mastercard... something like that..What they have sent you sounds fishy to me.

 

DD

 

.. Methinks the fish have escaped ! It will be interesting to see if they turn up..

 

How long ago did you apply to be reunited with your 'agreement', and what year did you apply for your original card?

 

Spam.