Threatening letter whilst off sick

[billathome65]

Hi brief run down.

 

My daughter who has mental health issues (and covered under the equalities act)

was signed off work with mental health related issues two weeks ago,

 

 

however due to the time of year and the job she does I suggested she asks the company for support

to enable her to keep herself in work (IE following company policy of supporting her own attendance.)

 

 

However, it became apparent that the support was not forthcoming

and she went off sick with the full backing of the senior manager.

 

However,

today she gets a letter from the personnel manager giving the normal drivel about wanting to support,

but if the illness is going to be long term they may have to terminate her employment?

 

 

 

1. She had attempted to support her attendance

2. Senior manager was aware that she was going to take the time off

whilst her medication and mental wellbeing were being sorted

 

3. The sick note states the end of this week when she was looking to go back in

 

4. The company didn't meet with her in order to see what support she may need in fact,

she says that when she went in the union rep who said he was going to arrange a support meeting

told her to just smile and get on with the job?

( How accurate that is, or if added to I don't know. )

 

This letter has now caused further stress leading to a relapse and is in my opinion etreemily insensitive.

 

As a union rep at the same place I am fuming,

but need to keep out of it. So what are others thoughts on this issue what redress do others see?

 

Regards, Bill

[rebel11]

Hi bill

 

If the Union Rep is unhelpful then contact the Regional Office and seek help directly from them.

 

Are Occupational Health involved? If not that is a consideration. I don't think your daughter should fear the letters that they send.

 

You could consider responding for her, stating that she has seen the doctor,

she unwell and has been signed off until XXXXX and that you are happy to keep them updated with her progress if thats acceptable.

[billathome65]

Hi she was told some time ago that she would be referred to OH that never happened, however, this letter OH has been mentioned again.

 

I am too close to this and to be honest have my own issues with work at the moment

which have me in the wrong frame of mind to deal with this objectively.

 

As part of my daughters mental health she can be difficult to work out she has a social personality disorder whatever that is

and other issues and the union reps have exhausted their patience with her

due to previous issues which incidentally she was always vindicated over,

 

 

And my own experience in work at the moment have left me disillusioned with my own reps

and questioning my employers commitment to my employment as I have had a number of very negative meetings with my own manager

where he has tried to twist any issues or concerns back onto me and

 

 

I am currently feeling very low but hey that's another issue :/

 

 

I had considered putting this to our area organizer but to be honest I have little faith in anyone

at this moment connected to my company so that's why i'm throwing this open on here.

 

As for updating them, she will be returning on Friday but back to square one it seems.

[rebel11]

Hi bill

 

If they've stated OH again, that is certainly something that needs to be followed through this time.

 

Also contact the Regional Office of the union, see if they can help. Unions are hit and miss.

 

Also their other sources of info and help :- http://www.mind.org.uk/for-business/mental-health-at-work/

 

Knowing what the employer should be doing is useful:-

 

http://www.mind.org.uk/media/43719/EMPLOYERS_guide.pdf

[Emmzzi]

that's not a threatening letter, its just honest! If she will be off long term - yes, they can terminate her employment. Isn't it better to know and be informed about it?

[rebel11]

Someone who is unwell could perceive it as being 'threatening', the company aren't covering themselves in glory, they seem to be reacting to events instead of managing them, i.e. Occupational Health providing support.

 

 

 

that's not a threatening letter, its just honest! If she will be off long term - yes, they can terminate her employment. Isn't it better to know and be informed about it?

[Emmzzi]

Someone who is unwell could perceive it as being 'threatening', the company aren't covering themselves in glory, they seem to be reacting to events instead of managing them, i.e. Occupational Health providing support.

 

 

 

I'm qute sure they don't give a damn about glory, and here are simply meeting a legal requirement to remind the employee that illness may result in termination. I don't read this in any way as being singled out; all my standard letters include similar. You ned to remind the empoyee of the process they are beng managed under and its possible consequences.

[rebel11]

I'm sure that's all covered in the Employee Handbook. Who said anything about 'singled out'? Doesn't seem to be much managing at all, it's all reacting to events, the company aren't being proactive to individual needs, they seem to be using the 'one fit's' all process.

 

I'm qute sure they don't give a damn about glory, and here are simply meeting a legal requirement to remind the employee that illness may result in termination. I don't read this in any way as being singled out; all my standard letters include similar. You ned to remind the empoyee of the process they are beng managed under and its possible consequences.

[SabreSheep]

As the OP has stated the person in question is covered by the single equality act. Im assuming this means her mental health issue is capable of being argued as a disability.

 

They would need to show they made reasonable adjustments during the process. THIS CAN include adjusting the process itself in order to avoid a complaint under the S.E.Act

Using a 1 size fits all approach is not going to help their case.

 

Secondly. The OP should be aware that they have to somehow engage with the employer. At the end of the day the employer can claim "Frustration of contract" if nothing happens after a reasonable time.

[billathome65]

that's not a threatening letter, its just honest! If she will be off long term - yes, they can terminate her employment. Isn't it better to know and be informed about it?

 

Emmzzi she is not off long term she has been off two weeks in order to get her medication sorted out and her mood stabilized this was indicated in her doctors note, the doctor wanted to sign her off for a month and then review it however she requested two weeks, so she would not be leaving the company in the proverbial at the busiest time of the retail year should she need to take the time off.

 

She had gone into work whilst signed off by the GP. and had stated she wanted to look at how the company could support her IE a simple thing like split her breaks more over the shift to allow her to take restbite, however the PM chose not to discuss options with her to allow her to remain at work. The union rep who was "supposed"t to be picking it up actually did nothing and left her hanging and vulnerable leading to her having to go of sick

 

The normal process as is my understanding (Having not dealt with this as a rep myself) is to send out a letter after two weeks' absence to say hi if we can help you out let us know and keep us informed of your progress. Then a follow on letter in the vein of the letter she got first after a month as that would then be classed as long term sick. As the doctors note clearly have an end date and as she was not due until today to phone in and inform them of her return or further time off, which when you consider she had done a shift she has been of less than two weeks.

 

Her mental health is covered under equalities act as without long term medication she has issues and cannot integrate or act correctly in socially stressful situations.

 

The PM has assumed she is going to be off work long term without actually checking the facts.

 

This letter is refering to her ongoing health issue IE her mental health, which incidentally she has never been off work over in the past ( except when she was suspended on jumped up allegations relating to her mental health ) that was the reason the PM had not passed it to OH as she stated when previously asked on the progress of the understood referral.

 

So all in all it seems to my daughter it's been done in order to scare her in her opinion as she has had a number of issues with management in her 8 years of working there. Each time it has been shown that a lack of understanding and support or agreed support and in two cases total skewing of facts to support the companies wishes to "get rid of it's problem" from the company has been the contributing factors.

 

She has engaged with the management by trying to arrange some additional support in order to support her attendance so that is an area I have instructed her to have recorded should she go to a disciplinary.

 

As I have not had the chance to chat with other reps, I have suggested that when she goes back in she speaks to two of the other reps who have both had long term sickness resulting in letters sent and I have suggested she ask them if they got the same type of letter after the two weeks if not then she has a case to feel victimized, if not then she will at least know it's only the process

[Emmzzi]

I'm 95% sure it's just the process, and that being calm about it is of more benefit than getting her worked up.

[billathome65]

Hi Emmzzi I appreciate your support.

 

My daughter phoned work today to say she would be back on tomorrow, Friday in line with the return to work procedures. And the PM was confused as she stated she was told my daughter had sent in another sick note covering further month, which my daughter had not done and made the PM aware of this. So the PM had sent the letter assuming my daughter was going to be off long term confirming the error. She then proceeded to instruct my daughter that if she wasn't still well not to come into work? (Which then would have triggered the termination option letter. ) Hmmmm strange advice considering, in my opinion! Mind you I do not trust the PM as far as I could throw her. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the attendance review goes? So if there is any real update I will let you lot know.

 

It was the letter by the way that got her worked up I told her I wasn't too sure on the letter policy so to speak, with the reps who have had first hand experience this advice in turn allowed her to settle and look at the issue more constructively. I posted up based on her initial feelings of it being threatened to get some clearer ideas from you guys and the stuff you guys wrote allowed me to take myself out of the picture and advice her better.

 

Cheers

[Emmzzi]

thee we go, admin error.good!

[rebel11]

'Admin error' lol, really, management pull all sorts of stunts, management say 'if I do that', then 'I might get this out come', They've already identified all the possible outcomes. They've done this many times before. It's about controlling situations.

 

 

thee we go, admin error.good!

[billathome65]

Bit of a twist there are 4 reps in store my daughter has texed to tell me, however none of them were prepared to rep her.

They are looking to get a rep from elsewhere who she does not know which due to her mental health issues as left her paranoid as she does not relate to new faces with trust from the get go and has to build that trust, I am obviously not going to rep her so it's wait and see.

 

She feels she has been left as a person with complex mental health issues feeling abandoned with the sharks.

 

I have managed to settle her down as she called me from work and I could only suggest she contact the union office and raise her concerns and hope they can also put her mind at ease.

 

As a father it sticks in my throat, however mental health is no excuse to take the urine, which whilst she has not done on this occasion has probably had a bearing on the fact that the other reps have backed off as she is very hard work at times.

 

Regards, Bill

[Emmzzi]

actually you can be represented by any rep. So you could if you wanted and were willing.

[SabreSheep]

Ok this is disgusting behavior from a union.

 

*IF* your daughter works for "Very LIttle Helps", her union will most likely be USDAW

 

I suggest you start seeking out one of the unions equality reps. Each region has a Committee made up of reps that represent LGBT, Disability, Women and Issues of Race. Your local union office should be able ot pass your details onto one of those representatives that will have further in depth knowledge of Disability and how to represent.

Edited December 20, 2014 by SabreSheep
Changing company name

[billathome65]

Emmzzi I agree with you I know I could rep her, but to be honest, I am so angry at the behavior of the reps and the company that by getting involved at that level would not be wise at this moment in time and I am taking a more proactive stance rather than a reactive one so after hearing all that went on yesterday I have now primmed her so she now has notes written out and has been warned to refer to these notes at all time when she does get pulled in for her meeting.

 

I was also informed by my daughter that the PM who has had direct involvement in this matter was going to be chairing the meeting ( That will not be happening) and she has been told that should they go ahead, then she has to make it known that she is doing it under duress and then not to answer ANY questions but state each time that due to process issues she is unable to answer any questions as she would be answering them under duress.

 

Sabresheep Cheers that has already been taken care off, she has phoned the union office this morning and has raised a concern due to the fact that the role of the reps is to remain impartial and to ensure that process and policy are followed 3 of the reps have repped her in the past and on each occasion it was only due to the reps that she kept her job as the company have consistently fabricated charges against her I actually highlighted a glaring lie to her after seeing CCTV evidence against her which actually proved her innocence.

 

The real issue here is that her mental health issue is such that the company need to be proactive and ensure any support packages that have been agreed to be put in place and acted upon at all time. On every occasion, this has not been followed through so leading to situations arising.

 

She attempted to support her attendance this time, however the PM chose not to listen to options by my daughter to allow the support to happen you could say she was dismissing her duty of care.

 

My daughter then spoke with a union rep who incidentally I have it on good authority that he overstated his professional boundaries with said vulnerable adult, however, I was unable to highlight this as it would have also jeopardized my daughters position too. But needless to say a smack in the mouth was the least I wanted to do.

 

Anyway, this rep lied and manipulated my daughter into work by assuring her that he would pull a meeting together so my daughter could outline the possible support the company could give her. That lie has been witnessed by myself so I was also lied to (that I am not happy about.)

 

As I see it having seen this progress over the years the company either do not want to or do not have the expertise to support her and so just want shut of her, but each time they do these things to her it just compounds her mental health problems ( and even had me doubting her version off events with previous issues which isn't right but after witnessing the underhandedness of these people I now back her 100%.) I see what it does to her and it angers me because Im her dad wanting to protect her but in many ways feel helpless which has a knock on effect with my outlook on the company ( catch 22 ) I am totally disgusted with the company and even angrier with the reps, however I have to work with these people knowing how they treat people and yes my daughter.

 

She is looking for a new job, however she also looks after my oldest daughters kids taking one to school, which allows my other daughter to work so this is also impacting the family as my oldest feels it's her fault my youngest is in this position and i'm right smack in the middle of all of this :)

 

I've told her that if they do pull another rep in from out of the store to put in a request for all of her files to be released to the rep I think it's the SAR???

 

But to be honest, I personally feel that due to the actions of the reps in the store, this should be handled by someone higher in the union so the equality rep seems a good way forwards. To be honest, there are many metal health, employment support agencies out there that the company could contact and work with in order to support my daughter if they really cared about her well-being.

 

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant, but I think the main points have been made.

 

Sorry

 

Bill

[rebel11]

Have you considered any of the information in post (4)?

[billathome65]

Hi Rebel1 yes, I have gone over the links and discussed this with her (I will go over the links again to see if there is anything I have missed ) but she has got the mindset that they just want her out and this issue will be used by the company to escalate it above what it actually is and I can't blame her thinking that way after the way they have treated her over the years and how a simple attendance review has led to 4 reps refusing to do their role I can see it growing bigger body parts.

[rebel11]

Write to the General Secretary of the Union concerned, they are happy to take your daughters subscriptions, they should do what they say (represent members), represent her in the manner that she would expect, especially as she is covered by the 'Equality Act', having been told that, if the Union fail to represent her, I wonder if they can be held responsible under the 'Equality Act'.

 

Hi Rebel1 yes, I have gone over the links and discussed this with her (I will go over the links again to see if there is anything I have missed ) but she has got the mindset that they just want her out and this issue will be used by the company to escalate it above what it actually is and I can't blame her thinking that way after the way they have treated her over the years and how a simple attendance review has led to 4 reps refusing to do their role I can see it growing bigger body parts.

[billathome65]

Hahahahahah thanks that have made me chuckle. She has asked her manager if she can split her breaks and her manager has refused, stating that she has to treat everyone the same? OK, so someone who has different needs to someone else is treated the same? Excuse me I can't eat nuts, I'm allergic to them, well sorry but everyone else eats nuts so take it or leave it Hmmmmmmm you got to love some people. This is opening so many doors it is quite amusing in a perverted sort of way. Will update this thread as needed watch this space. :-):-)

[SabreSheep]

That is unacceptable. If she needs her breaks split due ot her condition then they have to find a way to do it as long as it does not impact on the business too much... To be clear all she is asking for I believe is the same entitlement, just taken in bits. As long as the request is reasonable there should be no problem.

 

*IF* this is "Very LIttle Helps", their grievance procedure operates in 4 strands, unless they changed it over the last few years.

 

1) Health and Safety

2) Dignity @ Work

3) T+Cs

4) General.

 

In order to get support in place, when you get her a rep to represent her who knows the dignity at work policy and the equality act, I would recommend a formal dignity at work grievance against the overall store manager (As they have the responsibility and accountability of the management team under them.) The objectives would be to highlight the ongoing issues, and also get a support plan in place.

This would take the issue out of her line managers hands and if the outcome was not successful then there's an area manager to hear the appeal

Edited December 20, 2014 by SabreSheep
Changing company name

[billathome65]

Yep, that's the bad boy and yep, that's all she is asking for, bearing in mind she is on trollies the only female in the company who does I believe. she works the busiest days and it can get stressful when she is on her own to clear the whole car park. She again asked for her breaks to be split today and was allegedly refused, saying the request was not reasonable as the store is busy. She said she just wanted the splits so that if she needed to take herself out of a situation affecting her mental health she could to which the reply was you can do that as you walk across the car park I don't think that was witnessed, though and my daughter didn't follow my instructions with regards to responses in order to show that her manager was not cooperating with respects to making reasonable adjustments I need her to follow my instructions in order for us to build her case. She was also told that she was not allowed to leave if the car park was not clear at the end of the shift as it's her responsibility to do so, however my daughter did tell her boss that had she provided support earlier as had been promised the car park would have been cleared and as such unless they were going to pay her overtime she was leaving. her manager tried to bully her into staying however the store manager was close by so she spoke with him, he was not happy and told her she wasn't staying and to leave I also believe he then pulled her manager over the subject. So at the moment she is waiting to speak with the unions area organizer and I will be instructing her to insist that a rep who has full knowledge of the dignity at work policy and the equalities act is assigned. Thanks Sabresheep.

[billathome65]

Ok daughter has been told her meeting will be held next Saturday irrespective of whether she has a rep or not as the other reps will not rep her, depending on the information she receives from the union area organizer it may fall on me to rep her which I am not happy with for obvious reasons. This is only an AR but could lead to disciplinary so it's in her interest to ensure she highlights he attempts to support her attendance and failings of others etc.