landlord asking for another months rent

[james1979]

Hi everyone

Just looking for some advice really

Rented a property for four years

Me and the missus decided to move

We no longer had any contact details for the landlord so we contacted the estate agents through email

The said just email over a months notice that were leaving and they would forward it to the landlord

We moved out on Friday not hearing anything from the landlord

Having not heard anything from them in the four years we lived there I assumed they had retired abroad

This evening my parents receive a ****ty phone call from the landlord saying we had left the property without giving notice and that we owe them a months rent

(My parents where guarantors)

The landlord left a contact number so I text saying I had given notice with the estate agents and they said they would contact them as I no longer had contact details for them

The landlord has come back with that because I didn't give a months notice I will need to pay rent for another month until January fifth.

My response has been that I used all reasonable means to give notice and would be happy to provide all email correspondants with the estate agents.

She is insisting that I owe another month.

 

So where do I stand please?

[renegadeimp]

Treat it as if you never got it, or write to him and demand it in writing. Keep off the phone so you have a clear financial trail. You also want a FULL breakdown of all rent paid. Get one in writing from him, and one from the agents.

[james1979]

Cheers

Should i also contact the estate agents tomorrow to make sure they forwarded my notice?

I knew the landlord would be dodgy

When I first was gonna move in she tried to demand two months deposit because I have a young son

It was only when I refused and was gonna back out that she changed her mind

 

She is also demanding that the garden needs attention and that the place is in such a state that she will be unable to rent it to anyone else

Apart from maybe a bit of weeding we left the place in pretty good shape. We gave it a good deep clean and I made sure to take dated photographs of every room when we left on Friday.

[mariner51]

Exactly what date did you email LA with your NTQ?

What did it say exactly?

What day of month is rent due? (Assuming it is same date as Periodic T commenced).

Email is not the correct method for serving NTQ, written NTQ to 'address for service of Notices' in your AST, with evidence of posting, is preferable.

Having said that LL sounds a pain, though it can be a shock to find a T has left, without app giving due notice.

I wouldn't bother about LA if you have a copy of the email sent, that is a matter between LL & LA IMO

[james1979]

Thank you

So what do I do in regards to the nasty phone calls to my parents saying there liable?

Monthly rent commences on the fifth of each month

I contacted the estate agent saying I had lost contact details for the landlord and he said email it to me and I will forward it to relevant person

This is my first time handing back a rented property so thought nothing more of it

So if its a matter between la and ll should I just forward relevant emails to ll?

Thank you very much.

[mariner51]

Exactly what date did you email LA with your NTQ?

What did it say exactly?

Did you receive acknowledgement of receipt from LA?

 

Please answer above Qs

 

 

Your parents (G's) can request future communication is by written letter only, but they should be informed of their on-going liability, poss without your knowledge.

LL&T law is confusing for both LLs & Ts

 

 

Certainly provide LL copies of communications between you and LA.

[james1979]

I emailed on the 1/11/14

I received an email confirmation from the estate agent stating they would forward it to the appropriate person.

It was a simple email giving all my details and giving the date I wished to end my time of occupation of the property.

[raydetinu]

who did you pay the rent to; LL or agent? did the agent manage the property on behalf of the LL? It sounds as though they did.

Are the agents on the AST as LL's agent? Did they arrange any Gas safe Certs annually for LL.

If so, it sounds as though you have taken the correct steps, IMHO.

Just forward your correspondence with LA to LL and let them sort it out between them.

[Lea_HTH]

Here's your problem in a nutshell (based on the information and dates you provided in your posts):

 

1. Rent is due on 5th

2. You moved out on 5th December

3. Rent was due on 5th December

4. If you wanted tenancy to end with one month's notice, you should have moved out on Thursday 4th December.

4. LL is correct, incorrect notice given and rent is due to 4th January.

[JoeyJoeC]

Here's your problem in a nutshell (based on the information and dates you provided in your posts):

 

1. Rent is due on 5th

2. You moved out on 5th December

3. Rent was due on 5th December

4. If you wanted tenancy to end with one month's notice, you should have moved out on Thursday 4th December.

4. LL is correct, incorrect notice given and rent is due to 4th January.

 

Unless the Agency agreed with the timings, and if the tenant's agreement is with the agency rather than the landlord.

[Steve__M]

Here's your problem in a nutshell (based on the information and dates you provided in your posts):

 

1. Rent is due on 5th

2. You moved out on 5th December

3. Rent was due on 5th December

4. If you wanted tenancy to end with one month's notice, you should have moved out on Thursday 4th December.

4. LL is correct, incorrect notice given and rent is due to 4th January.

 

I don't see where point 3. was stated by James. James said:

 

The landlord has come back with that because I didn't give a months notice I will need to pay rent for another month until January fifth.

 

which suggests rent is paid on 6th of month.

[raydetinu]

op needs to confirm contract dates.

[Lea_HTH]

I don't see where point 3. was stated by James. James said:

 

 

 

which suggests rent is paid on 6th of month.

 

Post #5 clearly states: Monthly rent commences on the fifth of each month

[Lea_HTH]

Doesn't matter what the agency said, if the dates are accurate, the tenant owes another month's rent.

[Lea_HTH]

Unless the Agency agreed with the timings, and if the tenant's agreement is with the agency rather than the landlord.

 

My post above relates to this.

[raydetinu]

yep it does say starts on 5th so another months rent is due contractually.

have to wait and see what LL does about it?

[Steve__M]

We don't know whether valid notice was given in this case.

 

If a tenant gives valid notice which is accepted, and then stays for an extra day, is a full month's rent due or just a day?

 

Various internet lore suggests that a tenant would be regarded as a trespasser and charged rent on a daily basis - possibly double the rent:

 

http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2009/11/22/tenants-notices-to-quit-holding-over-and-double-rent/

[Lea_HTH]

We don't know whether valid notice was given in this case.

 

If a tenant gives valid notice which is accepted, and then stays for an extra day, is a full month's rent due or just a day?

 

Various internet lore suggests that a tenant would be regarded as a trespasser and charged rent on a daily basis - possibly double the rent:

 

http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2009/11/22/tenants-notices-to-quit-holding-over-and-double-rent/

 

It wasn't valid if the intention was to leave on 5th December...OP said he gave notice beginning of November (1st), and if he'd left on 4th, such notice would be valid (if tenancy is periodic). He didn't leave on 4th, he left on 5th, which is the day rent is due on.

 

Legally, rent is payable in advance, and staying even one minute into the 5th (i.e. 00:01) would make the OP liable for that month's rent. Staying on does not make him a 'trespasser' - trespassing is illegal, and if a tenant who overstayed their notice and became a trespasser, they would also become a criminal on that day and be liable to arrest and eviction by the police. That clearly was not the intention of the change in law on trespassers, and if the LL wanted to get a tenant who had overstayed their notice out, the LL would have to go to court on the basis that he relied on the notice he was given and perhaps even had other tenants lined up and make a claim for any losses - so even logically it makes no sense to think that a tenant overstaying for one day could just pay one day's rent in order to do so. That would make a mockery of tenancy agreements. If a tenant only wants to stay one day extra, they should negotiate that, otherwise they leave themselves open to having to negotiate with the LL after event, which leaves them in a weaker position.

 

Incidentally, the blog you linked to was posted in 2009 - the law has changed significantly since then in relation to tenancies and trespassers.

[james1979]

Hi thanks everyone

Having spoken to shelter they have told me because I didn't end the contract with the landlord I would have to pay another months rent and I should make a complaint about the estate agents.

 

The landlord is now being a nightmare again. They viewed the property today and have sent me several text messages about how disgusting the property is and they will be taking me to court.

 

They claim the flat needs a professional cleaning company to come in and clean the property. I said I was happy for the cost of that to come out of my deposit but she wants me to pay for the property to be recarpeted and decorated. Also replacement of the cooker and a new toilet cistern.

I contacted the landlord around a year ago that the handle of the toilet cistern was broke and the main oven on the cooker had stopped working. They would not do anything about them so I replaced both my self and have left the cooker in the property. The woman is sending constant threatening texts and has even started ringing my parents saying she would sue them.

When I first rented the property I thought I might need my parents as guarantor but I passed the credit check so did not need them but she still has my contact details.

I freely admitted that my son damaged one of the doors putting stickers on it and it would need a revarnish but she is insisting the door needs replacing.

 

So long story short she has got an extra month out of me. She wants to keep my complete deposit and wants even more money.

[james1979]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear

She claims the damage I have done is far greater than my months deposit and she will be issuing a county court judgement against me.

[james1979]

After reading some of the previous threads that cover similar ground I have begun drafting a letter to be sent to the landlord.

I have requested information on when the property was last redecorated and when the carpet was last relayed.

The age of the cooker when we first moved in four years ago give and I have given details and dates on when the cooker and toilet cistern broke and how they ignored our calls to replace them. They are unhappy that I replaced the broken cistern with a black cistern.

I'm going back to the property tonight to revarnish the doors and to give the cooker another clean.

This was my first rental property so I made the classic mistake of not photographing when I moved in.

They are also saying I need to replace the old acrylic bath.

This woman is a total nightmare.

Any other advice would be really appreciated.

[renegadeimp]

Sounds like she;s pulling a fast one. WHile there are a few things that need sorting, by your own admission, she seems to want to take it a step further and have you replac everything with no cost to her, as she knows she should have sorted it, but didnt.

[james1979]

This woman is a nightmare.

I have gone to the property. Done a final deep clean. Had the carpets shampooed and cleaned (they still look knackered) and changed the toilet cistern to a white one.

I have filmed the property when I walked out and took a meter reading and dated it with the days paper.

So anyway. I have now gone away with my family for new years. My tenancy on the property ends on Sunday. She is demanding that I be in attendance for Sunday. I have explained to her that I'm on holiday but she says she wants me there and throws in the threat of in case it goes to "court"

She has keys to property and I have put my copy of the keys into the key vault at the front door.

I'm over a hundred miles away from home at the moment and she has been sending me stupid texts all morning.

What should my response be?

[raydetinu]

it is always best to do a joint inspection, but as this is not possible and does not have to be done jointly, you will have to agree/disagree on the condition and come to some terms if you can.

However this is not always possible even if you are there together!

So be prepared for this to go to arbitration or court, and evidence is the key. Which it seems you have.

Any claim she may have, will have to be reasonable and take into account fair wear and tear.

she cannot claim new for old carpets say, only a percentage of the original cost, if she wants to replace them. ( carpets only last about six to eight years depending on quality ).

[*RainbowTears*]

+1

 

I totally agree with Raydentinu above.

 

Could you not rearrange another date with the LL for just after you return?

 

As that way, you can verify what you did/didn't do in the property, regards cleaning etc & you will also be able to sort out your deposit money, being returned back to yourself. (minus any repairs/deductions etc that you agree upon with the LL, If any).