TFL Summons!! ****Case Withdrawn By TFL****

[lal1987]

Hello people,

 

I have found myself in an unwanted situation. Roughly 2.5 months ago I was stopped by a Revenue protection Inspector with my Fathers Freedom Pass. I accidentally swiped in his card rather than mine. My fathers pass is a disabled one and i am afraid whether it would get cancelled. It was a silly mistake and I did not intend to use it. The reason I had his pass was because we were moving house and me and him were going by train as he was in his wheelchair I swiped his card for him to let him through and put the pass in my wallet, then the next day i had to go to uni and I didn't realise I had his pass with me. I did a get letter asking me to confirm my details and write my version of the events at the back. But I ignored this and now i got a summons for fare evasion. IS it too late to settle this out of court. I am losing sleep over this and I am in my first year in UNI, I just dont want a criminal record for this incident.

 

Thanks

[rebel11]

Hi lal1987

 

Welcome to CAG

 

No it isn't too late, but you haven't helped yourself by ignoring their initial letter. Find out who the prosecution manager is, address your letter to him.

 

You can consider writing to the company as you have the reference number. In your letter quote the Ref Number on the letter previously sent to you. An example of a letter can be found in post no.18 in the link below.

 

Amend it accordingly so you quote the correct railway regulation in the letter and that applies to your case. Don't copy the letter.Your letter needs to have more substance and be personalized to your particular case. Convey that you regret your actions and are apologetic.

 

Also send photocopies of your ticket purchases as proof that you pay and abide by railway regulations, this is very important. Also add any mitigating cirumstances, i.e. your work/career, your father is disabled etc.

Send it Recorded Delivery. The matter can even be settled out of court on the day of the hearing.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk...ly-travel-card

 

The guys will be along shortly to provide further advise.

[lal1987]

Hello Rebel

 

Thanks for the reply. With Hindsight I should have replied to my earlier letter. But reading around the forums doesn't give me a good sign. What I get is that TFL always end up prosecuting. I will use your template and Wright a letter and I can only hope. But this was a silly mistake. I know i should have been careful but I dint do it deliberately.

 

regards

[rebel11]

There have been quite a few 'out of court settlements', don't give up, as you state you didn't do it deliberately. Remember to send proof of your ticket purchases.

 

Keep updating the thread.

 

Hello Rebel

 

Thanks for the reply. With Hindsight I should have replied to my earlier letter. But reading around the forums doesn't give me a good sign. What I get is that TFL always end up prosecuting. I will use your template and Wright a letter and I can only hope. But this was a silly mistake. I know i should have been careful but I dint do it deliberately.

 

regards

[lal1987]

Hello Rebel

 

Thanks for the encouragement. I have written a letter now. I have even photocopied my 18+discounted oyster card and have shown them that i regularly use mine. Lets wait and see. Do you think I can call in and deal my case over the phone. Will that be a good idea?

 

cheers

[rebel11]

You've written to them, wait for a response, what's the date on the Summons? At some point you might need to call them if you don't hear anything, but leaving at least 4 or 5 days before the hearing.

 

Keep updating this thread.

 

Hello Rebel

 

Thanks for the encouragement. I have written a letter now. I have even photocopied my 18+discounted oyster card and have shown them that i regularly use mine. Lets wait and see. Do you think I can call in and deal my case over the phone. Will that be a good idea?

 

cheers

[lal1987]

Hello rebel

 

Thanks for getting back. You are the only one bothered to reply to this thread and thank you for that. My court date is on the 28th of jan, so there is plenty of time. I will wait as u said and probably ring them in a weeks time.

 

I will keep updating this thread and let you know of the situation.

[king12345]

Hi there,

TfL takes freedom pass swapping very seriously and the most common excuse is: I made a mistake, my dad is disable and I take him around.

So at the moment you're just another statistic to them.

We need much more information about the case.

I.E. Evidence, questions asked and your replies when you were stopped, how many times you used your dad's pass.

Give us more info so we can advise further

[lal1987]

Hello There

 

I have proof that I have only used it once as I myself have a discounted oyster!! And they have got my travel history as evidence in the court summons and it shows I use my card regularly. I still dont understand why they wont believe me?? I do understand their point view as well but the evidence says otherwise. I do believe I am responsibly for this error as it is my responsibility to check my ticket but the prospect of getting a criminal record is very frightening.

 

The questions I asked was very similar tp the others and I answered truthfully. I only said I used it once as i thought it was my oyster! And I signed the little book they had. My only mistake is that I did not respond to the letter they sent me confirming my details and writing my version of the incident at the back of the sheet.

 

Regards

[BazzaS]

What alleged offence have you been summonsed for?

 

In particular is it Bylaw 18, where they don't have to show intent, or S5 RRA 1889 where they must prove intent.

[lal1987]

Hello Bazzas

 

I have been unfortunately summoned for S5 RRA 1889.

 

regards

[BazzaS]

Hello Bazzas

 

I have been unfortunately summoned for S5 RRA 1889.

 

regards

 

That may not be so unfortunate......

They have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, that you intended to avoid your fare.

 

Did you have your Oyster with you at the time?

Is it PAYG or did it have a valid season pass on it at the time.

 

Did they see you swipe your faher's pass?

Was it in its original wallet? Was that in your hands or inside a larger wallet?

[lal1987]

Hello there

 

If I haven't made my self clear, I own an discounted card myself and at that time My card had a valid pass for a month!!! And i did have the card with me in the wallet but I must have turned the other side as my dads pass was in it. So it was just an error on my part! I was stopped on the train on my way to uni!! And that is when I realised I swiped the wrong side of my wallet.

 

Thanks

[Old-CodJA]

If I haven't made my self clear, I own an discounted card myself and at that time My card had a valid pass for a month!!! And i did have the card with me in the wallet but I must have turned the other side as my dads pass was in it. So it was just an error on my part! I was stopped on the train on my way to uni!! And that is when I realised I swiped the wrong side of my wallet.Thanks

 

 

I realise that this will not be what you want to hear, but bear with me for a moment.

 

The legal precedent in a case such as that described in your scenario has been well tested and a great many convictions have followed. The Appeal Court case is that of Browning (1946), when the traveller used his wife's season ticket despite having his own, valid ticket, with him at the time.

 

The Appeal Court Judges decided that although the rail company might not have lost any money, the traveller had not paid HIS fare. I hope that this illustrates how & why TfL are able to continue with confidence in a matter such as this.

 

That said, there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't try to convince them to allow an out of Court disposal and although they are not obliged to do so, some have been successful.

[BazzaS]

Hello there

 

If I haven't made my self clear, I own an discounted card myself and at that time My card had a valid pass for a month!!! And i did have the card with me in the wallet but I must have turned the other side as my dads pass was in it. So it was just an error on my part! I was stopped on the train on my way to uni!! And that is when I realised I swiped the wrong side of my wallet.

 

Thanks

 

Then that is your defence, if you cannot get an "administrative settlement": that even if you had accidentally avoided your fare, you did not intend to do so.

 

Did you tell the staff member who stopped you you had a valid pass with you, such that you had no benefit in accidentally using your father's pass, and never intended to do so?

Did this form part of their notes which you signed??

 

You would aim to distinguish your case from that of Browning on the issue of intent.

[king12345]

I'm surprised that the inspector reported you despite you having a valid monthly ticket and then TfL took it to full prosecution.

Was your ticket valid for all the zones/station of your journey?

If so you will have to point this out to TfL because most likely the fact that you had a valid ticket has gone unnoticed.

If they continue the prosecution you will have to plead not guilty and go to court.

Your defence will simply be: I had a valid ticket, so I wouldn't have gained anything by using my dad's pass. I had no intention to evade my fare because I had paid for it in advance.

 

Make sure you have proof of your valid monthly ticket.

Having the oyster card on its own is no proof, but just a piece of plastic.

[rebel11]

There was an opportunity to resolve the matter but it was missed, they sent a letter it was ignored, that is why the OP is here, for help.

 

'I did a get letter asking me to confirm my details and write my version of the events at the back. But I ignored this and now i got a summons for fare evasion.'

 

I'm surprised that the inspector reported you despite you having a valid monthly ticket and then TfL took it to full prosecution.

Was your ticket valid for all the zones/station of your journey?

If so you will have to point this out to TfL because most likely the fact that you had a valid ticket has gone unnoticed.

If they continue the prosecution you will have to plead not guilty and go to court.

Your defence will simply be: I had a valid ticket, so I wouldn't have gained anything by using my dad's pass. I had no intention to evade my fare because I had paid for it in advance.

 

Make sure you have proof of your valid monthly ticket.

Having the oyster card on its own is no proof, but just a piece of plastic.

[king12345]

Sorry, I missed that bit.

Now the op could contact TfL with proof of his valid monthly ticket and see what they say.

I think they would withdraw the case.

[rebel11]

No probs, easily done.

 

Sorry, I missed that bit.

Now the op could contact TfL with proof of his valid monthly ticket and see what they say.

I think they would withdraw the case.

[Old-CodJA]

You would aim to distinguish your case from that of Browning on the issue of intent.

 

 

In the Browning (1946) case, although he had a valid ticket of his own, his intention was to use his wife's season ticket in order to keep the validity of his own ticket for use at a later time and therefore used her ticket to avoid paying his fare.

 

In your case, much depended on what kind of Oyster your own ticket was. If it was a purely Pay-As-You-Go Oyster the prosecutor could easily draw parallel with the Browning judgement, but you say that your Oyster held a monthly ticket.

 

If your Oyster is a monthly season ticket and was in-date and covers all the zones that you travelled through, you should be able to demonstrate more easily that it was an accidental misuse.

[BazzaS]

In the Browning (1946) case, although he had a valid ticket of his own, his intention was to use his wife's season ticket in order to keep the validity of his own ticket for use at a later time and therefore used her ticket to avoid paying his fare.

 

In your case, much depended on what kind of Oyster your own ticket was. If it was a purely Pay-As-You-Go Oyster the prosecutor could easily draw parallel with the Browning judgement, but you say that your Oyster held a monthly ticket.

 

If your Oyster is a monthly season ticket and was in-date and covers all the zones that you travelled through, you should be able to demonstrate more easily that it was an accidental misuse.

 

As an aside, to clarify: is the issue in Browning not "the loss of fare to the TOC" but "is the fare paid by the ticket lawfully held"?

 

In Browning, he held a valid (single / return?) ticket but chose to show his wife's season ticket to retain the validity of his purchased ticket for later? So, he wasn't "giving up the value of that ticket"?

 

So Browning didn't have his own, valid season ticket? And in trying to retain the validity of the ticket he had purchased, by using his wife's season, he was avoiding HIS fare for THAT journey??

 

If the OP had a valid (in date, covering the full length of the journey) season ticket, can they not also state that they had previously paid their fare? It wouldn't be that they had to "give up the value of the ticket held" a la Browning, as the OP's ticket was a season unlike Browning's.

 

If they had the valid season ticket with them (so there is no suggestion it was being used at the time by someone else!), why had they not "previously paid their fare" (in contrast to Browning)

 

OP, did you show your (valid?) season ticket, which you say you had with you, to the staff member who stopped you?

If so, did that feature in their notes (which you signed), and if not why did you not ask them to record it?

If you didn't show them your pass, why not??

[lal1987]

Hello There

 

Thanks for all your responses. On the day of the incident, I swiped in my dads oyster accidentally and when I was checked by the inspectors on the train I just showd my wallet as the machine they have can read through it. They looked at each other for some reason and asked me to show me the oyster and when i pulled out and to my horror it was my dads oyster card. But then I told them it was a mistake and I pulled my own oyster card and they checked it aswell and a green light went off in the machine indicating I had a valid pass. But they still asked me to get off the train and asked me to give details. And the questions they asked were or some of them are (I used the witness statement from my court summons)

 

1. Why did you use your dads oyster?

Ans: I said it was a mistake

2. How many times have you used it?

And: Just this once as it was a mistake.

3.Does he you are using it?

Ans: No, but he knows i have his card with me.

4. Do you agree you should have used your own oyster?

And: Ofcourse I know. But on this instance it was an error of judgement on my part.

5. These facts will be reported to LUL. Do you understand?

Ans: What for?? I have my own oyster card and it was just a silly error and i Didn't do it deliberately.

 

And then they asked me to read their notes and sign it at the end. In my court summons they have a print out of my travel history on my oyster card. So i can prove it that i have been using it regularly and i have a monthly purchase on my discounted 18+(which is about 30% of the fare). Please help me how i should proceed now. I have written a letter last week but still no reply. shoouls i ring them???

 

thanks

[rebel11]

Did you send a copy of your vaild Oyster Card? It's still very early so no point ringing at this stage. Remember they are probably dealing with lots of cases, you'll just have to wait. Keep updating this thread.

 

Hello There

 

Thanks for all your responses. On the day of the incident, I swiped in my dads oyster accidentally and when I was checked by the inspectors on the train I just showd my wallet as the machine they have can read through it. They looked at each other for some reason and asked me to show me the oyster and when i pulled out and to my horror it was my dads oyster card. But then I told them it was a mistake and I pulled my own oyster card and they checked it aswell and a green light went off in the machine indicating I had a valid pass. But they still asked me to get off the train and asked me to give details. And the questions they asked were or some of them are (I used the witness statement from my court summons)

 

1. Why did you use your dads oyster?

Ans: I said it was a mistake

2. How many times have you used it?

And: Just this once as it was a mistake.

3.Does he you are using it?

Ans: No, but he knows i have his card with me.

4. Do you agree you should have used your own oyster?

And: Ofcourse I know. But on this instance it was an error of judgement on my part.

5. These facts will be reported to LUL. Do you understand?

Ans: What for?? I have my own oyster card and it was just a silly error and i Didn't do it deliberately.

 

And then they asked me to read their notes and sign it at the end. In my court summons they have a print out of my travel history on my oyster card. So i can prove it that i have been using it regularly and i have a monthly purchase on my discounted 18+(which is about 30% of the fare). Please help me how i should proceed now. I have written a letter last week but still no reply. shoouls i ring them???

 

thanks

[lal1987]

To rebel

 

Yes i did! OK i will wait for a few more days. And i will keep updating this thread.

 

Thanks

[Old-CodJA]

As an aside, to clarify: is the issue in Browning not "the loss of fare to the TOC" but "is the fare paid by the ticket lawfully held"?

 

In Browning, he held a valid (single / return?) ticket but chose to show his wife's season ticket to retain the validity of his purchased ticket for later? So, he wasn't "giving up the value of that ticket"?

 

So Browning didn't have his own, valid season ticket? And in trying to retain the validity of the ticket he had purchased, by using his wife's season, he was avoiding HIS fare for THAT journey??

 

 

That is correct.

 

 

If the OP had a valid (in date, covering the full length of the journey) season ticket, can they not also state that they had previously paid their fare? It wouldn't be that they had to "give up the value of the ticket held" a la Browning, as the OP's ticket was a season unlike Browning's.

 

If they had the valid season ticket with them (so there is no suggestion it was being used at the time by someone else!), why had they not "previously paid their fare" (in contrast to Browning)

 

 

That is in essence the argument put by Browning, he had previously paid HIS fare, but did not surrender THAT ticket for cancellation and he had that ticket with him also.

 

In the OPs case, he had paid HIS fare, but did not surrender up HIS ticket and the ticket that was offered as his was that of another person thus the fare that was paid on the ticket actually being used was not HIS fare. In the case of Browning the Appeal Court made clear that it did not matter that the rail company had not lost any money, the offence was complete.

 

 

Hello There

 

Thanks for all your responses. On the day of the incident, I swiped in my dads oyster accidentally and when I was checked by the inspectors on the train I just showd my wallet as the machine they have can read through it. They looked at each other for some reason and asked me to show me the oyster and when i pulled out and to my horror it was my dads oyster card. But then I told them it was a mistake and I pulled my own oyster card and they checked it aswell and a green light went off in the machine indicating I had a valid pass. But they still asked me to get off the train and asked me to give details. And the questions they asked were or some of them are (I used the witness statement from my court summons)

 

1. Why did you use your dads oyster?

Ans: I said it was a mistake

2. How many times have you used it?

And: Just this once as it was a mistake.

3.Does he you are using it?

Ans: No, but he knows i have his card with me.

4. Do you agree you should have used your own oyster?

And: Of course I know. But on this instance it was an error of judgement on my part.

5. These facts will be reported to LUL. Do you understand?

Ans: What for?? I have my own oyster card and it was just a silly error and i Didn't do it deliberately.

 

And then they asked me to read their notes and sign it at the end. In my court summons they have a print out of my travel history on my oyster card. So i can prove it that i have been using it regularly and i have a monthly purchase on my discounted 18+(which is about 30% of the fare). Please help me how i should proceed now. I have written a letter last week but still no reply. shoouls i ring them???

 

thanks

 

 

I think your response to question number 4, which I have highlighted, gives the reason for a hard line by TfL here

 

"Of course I know. But on this instance it was an error of judgement on my part."

This response suggests two important points.

 

1. You have said that you knew that you should have used your own Oyster,

2. You have said 'it was an error of judgement', which suggests that you rationalised the options before touching in and you judged that you would use your father's Oyster.

 

That makes the prosecutor's view of this a parallel with Browning.