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tyco17

Threatened with sack, stress related?

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I have been in the same job at the same place for 10 years. In 2011 I was diagnosed with work related stress/depression and was signed off for several months.

 

I did return to work on a phased return but did experience some harassment from my boss and after a year or so the problems flared back up and I was signed off for about a month with work related stress/anxiety/depression. Again I came back on a phased return and I insisted on completing an individual stress risk assessment where I listed some of the factors that contribute to the problems. I had one meeting to discuss tge assessment with my line manager this was 18 months ago. Since then there has been no follow ups at all.

 

However i have made it plain that I have been struggling with issues (that were stated as stressors in the IRSA) yet nothing has been done even though it could have easily been. In fact i went to see the senior manager and expressed that I was having problems but was told that anyone not coping in this way would be failing the standards expected and could face a capability proceeding.

 

Since then things gave come to a head and last week I was removed from one of my duties without consultation due to believed failings that are I believe due to problems stated as stressor in the risk assessment that have not been addressed or revisited in the past 18 months.

 

On Monday I was informed informally by my line manager (the union regional rep) that I was likely to be fired.

 

I became seriously stressed having oanic attacks etc by this and texted a colleague at 3am that I felt like topping myself. They told senior managers and they contacted me to tell me to not come in and see my GP whicb I am about to do.

 

I am at the end of my tether and do not know what to do I feel completely unsupported. What was the point of the risk assessment if it is to be ignored like this.?

 

This is a public sector post BTW

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Hello there.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling like this. Going to see your GP is the best thing and I hope it goes well today. Make sure you tell them everything.

 

Does your firm have an occupational health department [OH]? I wondered if you'd been referred to them, as they can be helpful.

 

Hugs, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I went to see senior manager a few weeks ago and asked to be referred but as I was unwilling at the time to fully state the issues the request was declined.

 

They have now said that they will refer me. I have been signed off for 2 weeks and have contacted the union (higher up than my HOD)

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If you want help, it is reasonable for them to have an explanation of why. Not being wiling to explain issues will not help at all. I think you need to revisit your stance on this and decide what is more important; job or privacy.


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Several yearsmall ago I was off sick with stress depression and was diagnosed as such by GP and OH. OH stated that as such the equality act 2010 probably applied.

 

 

I am wanting help from OH with issues at work that I have struggled with and we're raised as stressor in my stress assessment that I carried out on return to work. Tbh I teach and was off with stress partly from dealing with disruptive (very disruptive to everyone in the school) pupils with very little support from senior managers, in fact some support had been removed school wide.

 

Since then 18 months ago the risk assessment has not been revisited despite me being patently struggling with the very issues raised in the risk assesment, behaviour and work llife balance.

 

I did try to raise the issues with the head recently but he told me that any teacher that is having problems with behavoir in the class room would be seen to have been failing one of the teaching standards and would face a capability hearing. (Sack) and he has since announced that all teachers would be provided with a much lower level of support in the matter.

 

Surely as this was in the assessment and I am covered in the equality act 2010 then they have failed in their duty of care in not making reasonable adjustments, in fact they have made the conditions worse.

 

So I was being asked to refer to what I felt where their failings in the reference to OH.

 

In addition i was seeking ad is in whether I should disclose that I am transgendered to the school. Many teachers have been driven out or worse (Lucy Meadows committed suicide) once this is disclosed and I was asking for advice frome the local OH. By includING this information in the reference would rather defeat the need for that part of the referral.

 

It it not great when my school was it was described in a recent tribunal as having the worst duty of care management in the area. LEA are apparently investigating.

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so just say it's stress related; no need to discuss TG. \personally I am not sure OH is where I would seek that advice, anyway....


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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What capacity was your union rep acting in when he said you were likly to get fired? If he was acting in your union reps capacity I would want to be talking to someone in the union about the case due to conflicts of interest.

 

If he was talking in the capacity as your line manager, not only would I be doing the above BUT also doing a formal complaint regarding prejudging your situation


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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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As a mental health sufferer myself who has successfully taken on an employer in similar circumstances the OP has my utmost sympathy.

 

The employer appears to be flouting the EA '10 provisions and could be walking headfirst into a disability discrimination claim.

I have worn the T Shirt.

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Depression and anxity could be argued to be a form of discirmination if lasted or expected to lat more than 12 months. So there is something to investigate there


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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What capacity was your union rep acting in when he said you were likly to get fired? If he was acting in your union reps capacity I would want to be talking to someone in the union about the case due to conflicts of interest.

 

If he was talking in the capacity as your line manager, not only would I be doing the above BUT also doing a formal complaint regarding prejudging your situation

 

She is my HOD and not strictly my line manager she was acting as my line manager last year whilst a replacement line manager was reqruited.

 

She is not the union rep in the company she is the regional union rep. During our conversation she said that she had already arranged a case worker for me.

Edited by tyco17

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I would defiantly be concerned about conflict of interests here and as a manager saying you are likely to get fired before investigations are complete and a disciplinary held is a big no no.

 

Out of interest, which Union?


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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However i have made it plain that I have been struggling with issues (that were stated as stressors in the IRSA) yet nothing has been done even though it could have easily been. In fact i went to see the senior manager and expressed that I was having problems but was told that anyone not coping in this way would be failing the standards expected and could face a capability proceeding.

 

I just wanted to clarify I am a teacher and I expressed that I found dealing with very disruptive pupils particularly stressful especially when there was little backup and I had expresed this in the stress assessment as a trigger.

 

I have had a particularly difficult class for 3 years now, they are failing across the school I believe due to behavioural issues. For several years I have been flagging up the problems both verbally and via email. Yet when I went to the head recently I was told that any teacher citing behavioural issues as a reason that a class underperformed could be deemed to have failed the teaching standards and put onto capability.

 

Since then I had a learning walk where the observer noted a poor atmosphere in the classroom with little work being done, I had just had to issue whole school detentions (the highest sancation available to me) because they had previously done little work, failed to turn up to the teacher detention set due to little work and homework not attempted, then failed to turn up to the subsequent HOD detention and so I had now issued the WSD. I had previously flagged up the serious problems with he class. About 30-40% of the class are at least 2 grades below target across 6 or more subject across the school. Several have appeared on the board in the staff room where senior managers ask for strategies to get work out of individual pupils,.

 

Following the learning walk it appears that the pupils were interviewed and they were quite vitriolic about me, though I have not had any official feedback about what was asked or said by the pupils, nor have I had a right of reply the class has now been taken away from me and will now be taught by a non specialist cover teacher.

 

It is following this that my HOD and regional union rep told me she thought I was going to be put onto capabilities. (Capabilities for a teacher is the pretty much the death knell as it goes on you permanent record and will make it extremely hard to find another job in teaching.)

 

BTW I passed my recent performance managment in July this year. I have had three lesson observations in the last 6 months all rated "good" the most recent one was two weeks ago.

Edited by tyco17

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I suppose it is not strictly the sack being placed on capability but it is a rare day indeed that anyone gets through it and most resign before it is invoked to protect what is left of their career.

 

The conversation went like this after she had explained a little of the situation.

 

Me "I am screwed aren't I?

Her" I think so, I have contacted a caseworker from the union who can handle your case"

 

Note she had already contacted the caseworker.

 

NASUWT

Edited by tyco17

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Went to first session of cbt yesterday and Dr is deciding whether or not to refer me up the system as my symptoms were very severe.

Edited by tyco17

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Stress comes under mental health and this is covered by the equalities act if you are taking medication long term that supports your condition, as is my understanding.

 

If as you state you were signed off work due to stress caused at work, then you have shown that you have tried to support your attendance by consulting your GP.

 

If as you also state you had a meeting 18 months back where you listed contributing factors to the stress related issues and the employer has not provided support to limit these factors and has refused to listen to recent concerns, then they are failing in their duty of care.

 

Have they made any changes to your duties to enable you to do your job?

The information I give above is based on the information you have provided and is reliant on your accuracy.

 

To turn it back on you and state that (Citing behavioural issues as a reason that a class underperformed could be deemed to have failed the teaching standards and put you onto capability.) Is a cop out on their part, however not understanding how they reach that decision I am in no position to advise on that.

 

I would advise that you contact the union yourself and possibly raise a grievance should you feel that the threat to put you on capabilities is a way for the school to not address the real issues of your mental wellbeing and the causative factors. Would you say this pupil is causing you distress and intimidating you? If so, you have a right to be free from fear in your job. Lets hope you get this sorted favorably.


All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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I have had no changes to duties or extra support to limit factors.

 

All that happened was one meeting 18months ago to go through the risk assessment form that I insisted was completed in line with recommendation from OH. No follow up Meetings have been had since, the form States that there should be at least one after 6 months and then at least yearly.

 

If anything the school has moved over to a model that provides less support to the teacher (they are expected to sort the problems out themselves) and I have been given no more support than any other teacher, probably less than some as I expect that it is assumed that at 6ft 5" I can handle it.

 

One of the teaching standards is behaviour management so if your class does not make the expected progress and you cite behavioural problems as a reason then it is my heads position, as he stated to myself with my union rep present, that you would not be meeting that standard and could be placed on capability (the death knell to a teaching career). Considering behaviour was stated as one of the risk factors I thought that this statement was particularly unhelpful.

 

It is not one particular student but behaviour in general and two classes in particular (I teach 13) which have a lot of students in them that have been causing lots of problems across the school. One student was introduced into my worst class on a managed move from another school in September. He was moved into my school because of behavioural problems at another school. Because of his behavioural problems in my school he has been expelled/sent back by late November. To have that done in 3 months is very unusual it will only happen due to very poor behaviour.

 

Trying to make progress with a class that have nearly a third or more who really will not cooperate/don't care/just want to mess about is sole destroying and very stressful when you career in dependent on all your classes making the expected progress.

 

(We are expected to get 3 levels of progress out of 90% of students in a class and 45% four levels of progress if we do not then we can are told we will fail performance management and be put onto capability

 

Nationally all but he very brightest students make less progress than that so woe is you if you have a low set. )

Edited by tyco17

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I can relate to your issues of rowdy students. I was one. I hated school so once you are in the sights then you have your work cut out.

 

Ok, when you did your training was behavior management a key factor to a pass mark if so, then I would revisit your training literature.

 

What is school policy for dealing with disruptive students? Implement the policy, you cannot be criticized for following policies and procedures as your following the terms of your contract as I see it that's my opinion.

 

I'm sorry but not knowing the process I cannot advise on the best way forwards can you do sabbaticals, refreshers etc?

 

I would ask again are you on long term medication with relation to the management of stress, which, if you were to stop could make your mental health worse? If so, I would be seeking advice in relation to the equalities act. Go back to your GP speak to your union direct (not the one who has put the conflict in your way) a union rep is there to ensure policies and procedures are followed fairly and correctly and support both sides impartially and not as I see it make unfounded and conflicting statements. That's my view.) And raise your own concerns. Hard I know as the establishment close you down, but you have nothing to lose when you look at how you feel at present.

 

Irrespective of that I would be inclined to re-address the fact that they have not followed their policies and procedures with respect to the meetings you should have had or provided the support they agreed to at the meeting 18 months ago.

 

I understand how competencies can put you under added pressure, don't see it as a death knell, but use it to your advantage if they test your abilities, then they are also under obligation to put a package together to support you I would assume.

 

Sorry I am not much use, but if you give more info then maybe the guys here can advise better.

 

Hope it works out for you

 

Regards Bill

Edited by billathome65

All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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I can relate to your issues of rowdy students. I was one. I hated school so once you are in the sights then you have your work cut out.

 

Ok, when you did your training was behavior management a key factor to a pass mark if so, then I would revisit your training literature.

 

What is school policy for dealing with disruptive students? Implement the policy, you cannot be criticized for following policies and procedures as your following the terms of your contract as I see it that's my opinion.

 

I'm sorry but not knowing the process I cannot advise on the best way forwards can you do sabbaticals, refreshers etc?

 

I would ask again are you on long term medication with relation to the management of stress, which, if you were to stop could make your mental health worse? If so, I would be seeking advice in relation to the equalities act. Go back to your GP speak to your union direct (not the one who has put the conflict in your way) a union rep is there to ensure policies and procedures are followed fairly and correctly and support both sides impartially and not as I see it make unfounded and conflicting views. That's my view.) And raise your own concerns. Hard I know as the establishment close you down, but you have nothing to lose when you look at how you feel at present.

 

Irrespective of that I would be inclined to re-address the fact that they have not followed their policies and procedures with respect to the meetings you should have had or provided the support they agreed to at the meeting 18 months ago.

 

I understand how competencies can put you under added pressure, don't see it as a death knell, but use it to your advantage if they test your abilities, then they are also under obligation to put a package together to support you I would assume.

 

Sorry I am not much use, but if you give more info then maybe the guys here can advise better.

 

Hope it works out for you

 

Regards Bill

 

I have been diagnosed with depression and have been having treatment for several years (at least 3 but on and off for 10) sometimes medicinal sometimes therapy sometimes both, the school do know this and the OH report they received confirms this, hence one of the reasons for the risk stress assessment 18 months ago.

 

I have contacted my union and have been assigned a rep higher up the chain than my HOD. She does however know my HOD quite well which does worry me a little, we met on Tuesday and she does seem quite good.

 

I have been following school policies re sanctions, probably more so than most, however the students do not turn up to teacher detention or subsequent head of department detentions some then do turn up to the whole school detentions but by then it is several weeks down the line from the original incident and the detentions are backing up.

 

"Irrespective of that I would be inclined to re-address the fact that they have not followed their policies and procedures with respect to the meetings you should have had or provided the support they agreed to at the meeting 18 months ago."

 

I am not at all certain any support was agreed 18 months ago other than monitoring (which as far as I am aware didnt happen) but it certainly was not revisited so that any support that would have then been applicable as the situation worsened could be implemented.

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Ok address the depression and relation to equalities act with the union rep to see what they say and remember if you are not happy with a rep you can ask for another, but give this rep a chance (Oh, and speak with the GP) Other than that I feel I would be doing you a disservice advising further as I do not have the legal knowledge or access to practices policies and procedures of your services. The information I have given is just my opinion and there may be legal or policy factors I am not aware of.

 

Good to see your following process and hey, if they don't comply you have done what you're required to do.

 

Keep us updated and I hope things are sorted favorably for you


All information given above is purely my own opinion. Some based on personal experience. Where backed up by case files I will make that known. However, until then please take all of what I say with a pinch of salt and accept it only as a reference. :madgrin::madgrin::madgrin:

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