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78MPH NIP Renault Traffic coverted to motor home


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I have a panel van, registered as a Light Goods Vehicle.

I have converted it to a camper van,(windows, beds,cooking, wardrobs, etc)

but have not yet reregistered it as a camper van, as I believe this can only be done at my next car tax renewal date.

I was caught speeding at 78,on a dual carriage way, which is right on the speed limit for cars.

My belief, at the the time, was my speed limit was 70, but I now understand the limit for this viechle should be 60.

 

Even though it is impossible to load or use as a public light goods vehicle. Do I have any defence if I was to contest this NIP?

 

Kerb weight is 1954 Kgs

Max roof load 210 Kgs

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The NIP states:- "For the alledged offence of speeding- exceed 60mph for a goods vehicle-manned equipment",

Contrary to sections 86(1) and 89(1) of the Road traffic Regulation Act 1984 and the schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders Act 1988

This was on a dual carriage way where the speed limit is 70mph for a car.

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I am pretty certain that altering the design to suit a different use does not change the restrictions that applied to the original vehicle. The vehicle would still retain its original 'official' category.

Others will no doubt confirm this with specific regulations - and possibly what, if anything, you can do for the future other than abide by goods vehicle restrictions.

 

As an example, although many years ago, I remember it was popular among teams to use old coaches, cut down and adapted to be open flat transporters for racing cars. The police once set up a control at the exit of a race circuit and prosecuted all drivers of such a vehicle who did not have a 'public service/passenger vehicle' class on their driving license.

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It's what it is, not what it is registered as, that matters, for example a Renault Traffic with rear seat and side and rear windows etc., can be a dual purpose vehicle and so not subject to the lower speed limit, but will still be registered as a Light Goods Vehicle.

 

 

If the drivers were not carrying passengers for hire or reward, they would not require a PSV licence, but there may have been other matters involved.

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I accept correction.

 

The coaches/flatbed transporters example was from over 50 years ago, but it was as it was then. The vehicles were registered as coaches for carrying passengers, so their drivers required PSV (or equivalent at the time) Licence.

But things change over time.

 

Back to the OP's problem.

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That is an interesting point, "Renault Traffic with side and rear windows and seats", is not limited to the lower speed limit. Does anybody know the "Revenue Weight" of this vehicle, as stated on the Registration Certificate? This would appear to be an interesting thing to know?

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Hi all, my company has been in the same boat recently as some vehicles that were originally designated goods vehicles but converted to minibus interiors for which we received a small number of speeding tickets for 'exceeding XXmph for a goods vehicle'. We did get all three overturned by the submission of 'mitigating documents' of the new V5 and a number of photos showing the new seating plan along with a brief letter detailing that the vehicle was now classed as an M1 passenger carrying vehicle (car) though still actually looks like a van. I think the OP should action the change on the V5 asap - section 7 I believe but take a copy and send that copy to the Police along with the interior pics to show that the work has been carried out and the correct taxation class applied for.

It worked for us.

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That is an interesting point, "Renault Traffic with side and rear windows and seats", is not limited to the lower speed limit. Does anybody know the "Revenue Weight" of this vehicle, as stated on the Registration Certificate? This would appear to be an interesting thing to know?

 

 

The definition of a Dual Purpose vehicle is in s.3, The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986.

 

 

It is the unladen weight that is relevant - not to exceed 2040kg.

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I have today been in touch with the DVLA, and they requested my V5 form, with photo evidence of the changes made to my van. I have also been and weighed my van and found it to be 2080 Tonnes. The DVLA said it was quite an easy matter to change its designation to a Motor home and change the weight. Im not sure if the new V5 form will arrive before the summons and if it will do any good.

Still the same question, do I contest the Speeding offence or not?

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I have today been in touch with the DVLA, and they requested my V5 form, with photo evidence of the changes made to my van. I have also been and weighed my van and found it to be 2080 Tonnes. The DVLA said it was quite an easy matter to change its designation to a Motor home and change the weight. Im not sure if the new V5 form will arrive before the summons and if it will do any good.

Still the same question, do I contest the Speeding offence or not?

 

 

Not sure how you can contest it. You were caught doing 78mph according to your opening post.

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I have today been in touch with the DVLA, and they requested my V5 form, with photo evidence of the changes made to my van. I have also been and weighed my van and found it to be 2080 Tonnes. The DVLA said it was quite an easy matter to change its designation to a Motor home and change the weight. Im not sure if the new V5 form will arrive before the summons and if it will do any good.

Still the same question, do I contest the Speeding offence or not?

 

 

 

Its the plated, gross vehicle weight that matters.

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Thats the only argument I have. If after ny new V5 form arrives showing, the van, now to be a motor home, I would not have been speeding.

The van has not changed, only the Registration Document.

I think this does show a weak point in having mobile speed cameras, where people are not stopped. Where as a talking to with a police officer would have sorted this instantly.

I have today sent all the documentation to the police force involved and wait and see what happens.

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Thats the only argument I have. If after ny new V5 form arrives showing, the van, now to be a motor home, I would not have been speeding.

The van has not changed, only the Registration Document.

I think this does show a weak point in having mobile speed cameras, where people are not stopped. Where as a talking to with a police officer would have sorted this instantly.

I have today sent all the documentation to the police force involved and wait and see what happens.

 

But the speeding fine is for traveling 78mph.

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The NIP isn't for exceeding 70mph though, is it ? It is specifically for exceeding the relevant speed limit in a 'goods vehicle-manned equipment'. Once he has dealt with this NIP, another one may or may not arrive for the alternative offence. If or when that happens, he can deal with that then.

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The NIP isn't for exceeding 70mph though, is it ? It is specifically for exceeding the relevant speed limit in a 'goods vehicle-manned equipment'. Once he has dealt with this NIP, another one may or may not arrive for the alternative offence. If or when that happens, he can deal with that then.

 

Missed the second post.

 

He mentioned in the first post:

 

I was caught speeding at 78,on a dual carriage way, which is right on the speed limit for cars.

 

So he is probably unaware that the speed limit for cars is actually 70MPH. the 10% + 2mph is only a guidance, but he can still be done for going 78mph. Is it really worth the effort to contest the NIP only to get another one instead?

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The NIP is -

"For the alledged offence of speeding- exceed 60mph for a goods vehicle-manned equipment",

Contrary to sections 86(1) and 89(1) of the Road traffic Regulation Act 1984 and the schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders Act 1988

 

It is not for going at 78mph in excess of the 70mph National Speed Limit. That would require another NIP that must be served within time limits from the alleged offence - which is fast running out if not already out of date.

 

So concentrate on the 'goods vehicle' aspect.

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The NIP is -

"For the alledged offence of speeding- exceed 60mph for a goods vehicle-manned equipment",

Contrary to sections 86(1) and 89(1) of the Road traffic Regulation Act 1984 and the schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders Act 1988

 

It is not for going at 78mph in excess of the 70mph National Speed Limit. That would require another NIP that must be served within time limits from the alleged offence - which is fast running out if not already out of date.

The legislation only requires the NIP to "state the nature of the offence". It doesn't have to describe the offence in precise detail - stating it in general terms (ie "speeding") is probably sufficient. Plus there's ample case law to the effect that an error on the NIP is not fatal to any prosecution provided that the defendant was not unfairly disadvantaged by it. If they did decide to prosecute him for exceeding the national speed limit instead (not saying that they would, just that it can't be ruled out) then I don't think the wording on the NIP would be an impediment to that prosecution.

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The NIP is -

"For the alledged offence of speeding- exceed 60mph for a goods vehicle-manned equipment",

Contrary to sections 86(1) and 89(1) of the Road traffic Regulation Act 1984 and the schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders Act 1988

 

It is not for going at 78mph in excess of the 70mph National Speed Limit. That would require another NIP that must be served within time limits from the alleged offence - which is fast running out if not already out of date.

 

So concentrate on the 'goods vehicle' aspect.

 

 

s.86(1) RTRA 1984 refers to the speed limit for particular classes of vehicle, s.89(1) refers to exceeding a speed limit - so the NIP covers both circumstances.

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Driving at 78 in a 70 zone is not an offence. Driving at 79 is.

Driving at 78 when the speedlimit is 60, is the question I am asking.

I believe that my van should now be classed as a motor home and should not require a speeding fine. I will see what the DVLA says

Exeeding the limit by 8 miles per hour is totally different than 18 mph.

The argument now, I feel, should be what is the offence for not upgrading my V5.

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