Euro Car Parks ANPR PCN - Crown Street in Bolton **Cancelled**

[Elffin]

On the 9th of November we parked on Euro Car Park located on Crown Street in Bolton, we forgot to pay the fee and on the 12th we received a letter:

Parking Charge Notice amount due £100. Payment for the parking charge notice is due within 28 days from the 12/11/14 shown above if the parking charge notice is paid within 14 days from the date of this notice a prompt payment discounted amount of £60 is payable.

 

Under that it states we were parked on Crown street car park from 16:55 to 18:23 on the 9/11/14

 

then says that: On the 9/11/14 you were the registered keeper of the vehicle: Or you have been named by the registered keeper as the driver when there was a breach of terms and conditions of parking.

 

We are using cameras to capture images of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay. Signage on the car park clearly informs of the terms and conditions.

 

The parking charge notice xxxxxxxxxx has been issued because the vehicle was parked at crown street - Bolton, Crown street, , Bolton, BL1 2RU. As no valid pay and display/permit was purchased this was in breach of the terms and conditions at this site.

 

It then mentions Schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012.

 

What should we do in relation to this?

 

Elffin

[armadillo71]

As registered keeper you appeal the charge.

 

 

The charge that Euro car parks are asking you to pay, has to be a genuine pre estimate of loss that the landowner has suffered by the driver allegedly breaching the terms and conditions of the car park.

 

 

Now as the driver did not pay to park, then the correct fee could be offered with say five pounds on top, along with the appeal.

 

 

Or the RK could appeal and state that they are not liable for the charge and give the reasons why they think they are not.

And state that they require a valid code for POPLA if Euro car parks disagree.

 

 

Do not identify the driver in any appeal. And always get free proof of posting with any letter sent.

 

 

Abbreviations explained - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?168275-Posting-in-this-Forum-please-read

[Elffin]

I have sent in an appeal now and i guess i will just have to wait until the next letter comes, i have asked for a POPLA code at the end of the appeal if they refuse my appeal.

 

Elffin.

[f16]

It will more than likely get refused. ......... But they have to give a POPLA code.

Then you form an appeal using armadillo71 advice GPEOL.

[Elffin]

It's been 16 days since i have appealed against this ticket and i still have not heard anything, Is good thing or a bad thing?

 

Elf.

[armadillo71]

It's been 16 days since i have appealed against this ticket and i still have not heard anything, Is good thing or a bad thing?

 

Elf.

 

They have 35 days to respond according to the CoP that they must follow. Although they should let you know that your appeal is being dealt with by 14 days.

 

You did get proof of postage?

[Elffin]

I did it online...

 

Elf.

 

p.s. they still haven't got back to me

[Elffin]

So i finally got the rejection of appeal.

 

 

just a bit of extra information. The Appeal was put in by email on the 24th of November, the Reply was on the 31st of December, and as you rightly mentioned the rejected the appeal.

 

Is the fact that they didn't reply within the 35 days of any importance?

 

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Elf.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Elffin
more info.

[ericsbrother]

do you have the envelope the rejection letter arrived in? What is the date of the postmark? If you have proof that the letter of rejection was sent out of time then they lose the right to claim form the keeper and are obliged to make their demands from the driver.

Also, looking at the terms on the notice as it is a patrolled car park I would have expected a windscreen ticket so they havent issued the demand in accordance with the provisions of the PoFA.

I also note that they demand a handling fee for the payment-this is illegal under laws brought in in 1999-2013 as part of eu unfair contracts terms legislation.

I would be tempted to ignore them but as they have to pay a fee of £27 for any POPLA appeal then go for it, cost them money!

Reasons for appealing- 1. The signage is not a contract as it refers to other signs for the formation of a contract so it is an invitation to treat. This means that a contract is only formed when the actions that are referred to elsewhere are performed is the contract formed. The driver did not consider and accept these further conditions therfore there has been no contract made so none can have been breached. 2. Notice to keeper of vehicle issued outside the permitted times so no keeper liability under PoFA (patrolled car park so NTD should have been issued). 3. Rejection of appeal letter sent out of time thus removing keeper liability if it had existed by virtue of PoFA. 4. Amount claimed is a penalty charge as the loss to ECP is the amount on the tariff, so a maximum of £8 is the maximum ECP can claim as it losses directly as a result of the action of the driver of the vehicle.

5. the requirement to pay additional fees when paying this demand is ILLEGAL under consumer law. This means that the contract can be repudiated and becomes void.

 

It wont matter if POPLA dont agree to any of these points ECP wont be able to successfully take the matter further as they know that they are in the wrong and have dropped other demands when this is pointed out to them.

[Elffin]

I am just doing the appeal to Popla now, and i am not sure that point 2 is valid. The only letters i have recieved from ECP are the 1st one telling me about the PCN and the 2nd one which said i had lost my appeal. I dont think either of those would be classed as a NTK would they?Elf.

P.S. i did not recieve one within 14 days telling me they had recieved my appeal letter either.Elf.

[ericsbrother]

The reason I say that is the signage says that the car park is patrolled so they should have used a ticket on the vehicle as it is possible to do so. The notice to keeper through the post applies where it is not possible to serve notice upon the driver at the time. They may well ahve issued their NTK within the time but they should have issued a ticket if the notice that forms the contract is to be believed. This point should be made, even if you dont get any joy as it shows you read the signage and otherwise operators will just issue tickets through the post without just cause, rather like VCS do at Liverpool airport and it them becomes accepted, which is not the intention of the Act.

They dont have to tell you about receiving your letter, they either accept the appeal and cancel or they tell you that it wasnt accepted and provide a POPLA code. They have 35 days to do this otherwise there is no keeper liability. no reply in time and they have to go back to driver for anything.

However, hammer home points 1 and 3 as they are the parts that are going to defeat any court claim so you need the paper trail. The other points will determine whether the charge based on their loss or just a penalty and their behaviour and confing signage helps you and hinders them.. If you do lose the POPLA appeal you have all of the other bits that will carry more weight should ECP want to try it on but with unlawful,charges, sloppy signage, late paperwork etc they are unlikely to want to.

[DavidSam]

Hi Elffin,

I have received the same letter today from the same car park. Please let me know how I can avoid it.

 

The thing is I did not leave the car, I stayed in the car for 15 minutes and now they are asking for £100

[citizenB]

DavidSam, you will need to start your own thread. You can find out how to do this by clicking on the following link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?107001-quot-How-do-I...-quot-A-Dummies-Guide-to-this-Forum

[ericsbrother]

start a new post and then tell us the dates of the event, when you got letters etc.

[Elffin]

I sent the Popla appeal in the other day, and they say it will be heard around the beginning of march. I did the appeal by copying and pasting the post above post by Ericsbrother and just adding the dates of sent and received letters, Should i attach copies of the scans of letters from ECP or just leave that to ECP to provide and keep my copies for if it goes to court?

 

Elf

[ericsbrother]

You should get a copy of the paperwork that ECP intend to use beforehand. This allows you to consider what they say and rebut anything that is not true. If you dont get this paperwork it is a sign that they arent contesting your appeal. If you do get bundle then tell us what it consists of so you can ask for documents left out (commonly leave out contract as that sinks them in manty cases)

[Elffin]

Well it looks like ECP have decided they cant win this one because of your advice Ericsbrother i got this in my E-Mail inbox today

 

24 February 2015

Reference 2413614278

always quote in any communication with POPLA

Dear Sir or Madam

Miss Very Beautiful Lady(Appellant)

-v-

Euro Car Parks Limited (Operator)

The Operator has informed us that they have cancelled parking charge notice number 88880239483, issued in respect of a vehicle with the registration mark xxxxxx .

Your appeal has therefore been allowed by order of the Lead Adjudicator.

You are not liable for the parking charge and, where appropriate, any amounts already paid in respect of this parking charge notice will be refunded by the Operator.

Yours sincerely,

Richard Reeve Service Manage.

 

 

Thank you all for your help in this and every other appeal won against these cowboys

 

 

Elf.

[ericsbrother]

Normal for them, keeps them out of the criminal courts for telling porkies and breaching consumer law..