Problems - Post WCA Assessment.

[martindn]

Hi there, you guys gave excellent advice in Febuary about an esa appeal and i still appreciate that to this day so i thought i would ask again. I am sorry for the fairly lengthy post.

 

Another friend is going through it, with severe mental problems who really should be getting looked after. Hes had drug problems all his life and is on so many different medicines his head is frazzled, he is completely lost when it comes to benefits. He ended up getting 0 points, the usual medical evidence and history or doctors supporting notes not being taken into account at all.

 

This is where the problems start, on around the 12th october he received the results of the WCA assessment. He said he would be appealing this decision right away as he does not agree with it, however the person he made the call to asked him to attend an appointment at the jobcentre where he somehow, ended up being on jsa and appealling ESA at the same time.

 

It was around the 16th october he started a JSA claim (which he shouldn't have), and has signed on 3 times now, but he so far hasn't been paid once. Jsa tells him its because he has a sick note open on his claim for ESA and ESA cant pay him because he failed. I didnt even know you could have two different claims open.

 

I know about how to start the appeals process from your advice last time, but what can he do, close the JSA claim then ask for the mandatory consideration? I feel he has been misled somewhere.

 

Martin

[tommy456]

I can shed some light on this for you as i'm going though a similar process like your friend i was one ESA failed the WCA So ESA stops,

 

You used to simply be able to register your application for an appeal through the dwp benefit centre along with a fit note(med3) and the esa would re start but at the pre assessment rate,until the appeal date at the very least,

 

Now however that's to this government they have placed a barrier in the path to appeal, known as the mandatory reconsideration and until this has been completed by the DWP you cannot appeal should their decision not differ from the original WCA result,

During this time most will claim JSA in order to get some money to live , but there are a lot of JSA advisers who will IMO make things as difficult as they can, which can include the number of times they expect you to visit the job-centre on top of the signing on days

Unfortunately there is not set time for the decision maker to process mandatory reconsiderations

 

And once you have the result from the re consideration should it not be in your friends favour then he can, complete the appleal application form and send it to the tribunals service, once they send acknowledgement and the DWP has received it( maybe best to take it into the local job centre and get them to scan and e-mail it to the benefit centre) and also have a valid fit note( med 3) can be back dated to the expiry of the last med3, there isn't any reason from a logical view point why esa should not start to be paid and JSA ceased automatically

 

But apparently there is some reason but the problem is many of those who work at the DWP call centres and in some job centres don't have a clue how the system actually works, so are unable to help or give out wrong info some claimants get confused to say the least

 

There needs to be some definitive information regarding this in the public domain, not hidden away by the DWP which i think is part of IDS and Mc vey's master plan , for their sakes i hope i never meet either of them , as i would be doing some serious jail time

 

I found this info http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmselect/cmworpen/302/30209.htm

 

ELIGIBILITY FOR ESA AND JSA DURING MR 103. Claimants deemed fit for work who request reconsideration of that decision are not able to claim ESA at the assessment rate; instead they can claim Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) if they are eligible. (Claimants who are placed in the WRAG and ask for reconsideration on the basis that they should be in the Support Group are paid ESA with the WRAG component during this period.) If, after MR, the claimant appeals to HMCTS, then assessment rate ESA is reinstated.

 

and here

116. Another change in the process for challenging decisions, introduced at the same time as mandatory reconsideration, is "direct lodgement". This change was intended to simplify the process and to bring it in line with other appeal processes in HMCTS.[174] Previously, claimants submitted their appeal to DWP, and it was then transferred to HMCTS. Under direct lodgement, claimants must submit a letter of appeal to HMCTS within a month of the MR letter being issued. Once HMCTS has received the required documentation, it will inform DWP that an appeal has been lodged. DWP will then consider the case again and may change the original decision being appealed at any time before the case is heard at the tribunal. It may also object to the appeal, for example if it believes it to be "unreasonably late" or "to have no likelihood of succeeding."[175]

 

Nothing about the DWP being unreasonably obstructive I my case i believe they have been

 

Due to being given incorrect information i was led to believe the transtion from JSA back to ESA following the MR would be automatic once the HMTCS had informed to DWP and the DWP had a valid MED3 (which they have had both for over 1 month ) and i still had a live claim for JSA

 

I like your friend did not sign on (only 1 time) and they sanctioned me The latest info i have is that i need to close the JSA backdated to the date the dwp received the HCMTS notice of appeal in order to start the ESA again, ??? confused me too

 

Thank's to the conservatives the benefit system is a shambles now and will only get worse should they some how remain in control at the next election

[estellyn]

Once you've been found fit for work, the 'fit note' should no longer apply and should not impede JSA payment. You do however have to sign that you are available for and actively seeking work. You need to phone the DWP and request a decision maker to call you with regards to your claim, these are the people with the knowledge to help. If challenged about your fitness to work for your JSA claim, simply state that that you have been declared fit for work by a work capability assessment.

 

Once you get a decision about a mandatory reconsideration (be sure that you have requested this), you will be able to make a formal appeal and claim appeal rate ESA until the outcome of the hearing is known.

 

It is a stupid system to ask a person to challenge a fit for work decision (so saying they're not fit for work), while at the same time due to the claimant needing to eat, forcing them to sign for a JSA claim saying they are fit for work.

[tommy456]

It certainly is a stupid system, [problem] these so called reforms MR's and UC. A MED3 from your GP ect should be enough, no need for charades like the WCA and it's pigeon holed (descriptor + points system)

[roundthegasworks]

Once you've been found fit for work, the 'fit note' should no longer apply and should not impede JSA payment. You do however have to sign that you are available for and actively seeking work. You need to phone the DWP and request a decision maker to call you with regards to your claim, these are the people with the knowledge to help. If challenged about your fitness to work for your JSA claim, simply state that that you have been declared fit for work by a work capability assessment.

 

Once you get a decision about a mandatory reconsideration (be sure that you have requested this), you will be able to make a formal appeal and claim appeal rate ESA until the outcome of the hearing is known.

 

It is a stupid system to ask a person to challenge a fit for work decision (so saying they're not fit for work), while at the same time due to the claimant needing to eat, forcing them to sign for a JSA claim saying they are fit for work.

 

 

I ended up like that. My GP gave me a new sick note for 3 months from when the old one ran out which was just after the decision that I was fit for work. I made a telephone call (as per what the BDC told me) to the jobcentre to claim JSA whilst waiting for the ESA reconsideration. At the appointment they asked me if I was fit for work 30+ hours a week. I laughed and gave them a copy of my 6 pages of monthly repeat prescriptions and the new sick note. I was told that I could not claim JSA and should be claiming ESA. Here we go again I thought to myself. It ended in a row in the jobcentre and I was escorted out. I was without any money for nearly 7 weeks, £1350 in debt, until I had my ESA appeal accepted. Eventually I received the 7 weeks of back pay and the council released the outstanding housing benefit so I could pay my landlord. Fantastic system isn't it?

[martindn]

You need to phone the DWP and request a decision maker to call you with regards to your claim, these are the people with the knowledge to help

 

He was told by an Decision Maker after he got the results - this was the person that advised him to go on JSA - that they would not take his appeal because they cant go against ATOS decision, which is BS. Should he ring the ESA line and ask for a mandatory reconsideration, they have to accept it right to allow him to go to the indenpendant tribunal? Is it the decision makers prerogative to say that?

 

Edit. What is the length of time you have to appeal a decision? If they have given him the run around to avoid this date i swear i will be outraged, these guys have to help surely? And if he is over the date, what is a the time limitation from the date of his assessment result to when he can apply for ESA again? A year?

Edited November 25, 2014 by martindn

[tommy456]

Usually 1 month 30 days, following the MR outcome to lodge an appeal , but you cannot lodge an appeal until the MR has been done, It would be very unusual for a Decision maker to block someone lodging an appeal, if they actually can do this, As for them overturning the original result of the WCA they can and have done this, although it would come as no great surprise, if this was a rarity in the grand scheme of things

[martindn]

Usually 1 month 30 days, following the MR outcome to lodge an appeal , but you cannot lodge an appeal until the MR has been done, It would be very unusual for a Decision maker to block someone lodging an appeal, if they actually can do this, As for them overturning the original result of the WCA they can and have done this, although it would come as no great surprise, if this was a rarity in the grand scheme of things

 

Thought they couldn't yeah. Maybe he got what they said confused, he did seem adamant perhaps it was an advisor from ESA itself. The mandatory consideration can be sent off with the letter that came with the WCA result right? And i have told him to tell them why he doesnt agree, with a sick note and a supporting letter from the doctor.

 

Anyone know the length of time he can apply again if he is out of time?

[estellyn]

6 months from the wca decision date for a new claim.

[martindn]

Appreciate it everyone. Its telling when you can get better help of a bunch of strangers than the people who should be helping.