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Arrow Global ClaimForm Cap1 'debt' - Possibly statute barred


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Hi and thanks for taking the time to read.

 

I have just received a small claims form pack (N9)

which was issued on 17-Nov-2014 from Northampton county court business centre,

for an old debt from Capital One which Arrow Global have purchased.

 

I have looked up on my credit profile and can see a default was registered on 11/02/2009,

the last payment for this debt was some months before that so it may possibly be statute barred if I'm correct?

 

I have never acknowledged any letters or had any contact with Arrow Global,

nor have I ever had any contact with Capital One since the default,

I have just buried my head in the sand as I have never really been in a position to do anything about the debt.

 

I'm a little unsure how to proceed or what to do and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Hi uub and welcome to CAG

 

Can you confirm .....11/02/2009...11th Feb or 2nd Nov ? either way its not Stat Barred until 2015 unless you reside in Scotland.

 

If you could read and complete the following posting your responses here to enable to correct advise to move this forward.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-April-2014**

 

Regards

 

Andy

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The date of the default was 11th Feb 2009,

however the last payment and the last contact with Capital One was some 6 months prior to the date of the default.

 

As for as I can make out a debt is statute barred

when no payment has been made for a period of more than 6 years

and as long as the debt has also not been acknowledged in this time, of which both are true.

 

My answers to the questionnaire you linked to.

 

Name of claimant: Arrow Global Guernsey Limited

Date of issue: 17th November 2014

What is the claim for:

 

 

1. The claim is for the sum of £xxx is respect of monies owing by the defendant

on a credit agreement held by the defendant with Capital One under account number xxxxxx upon which the defendant failed to maintain payments.

 

2. A default notice was served upon the defendant and has not been complied with.

 

3. By Virtue of a sale agreement between Capital One and the claimant,

the claim vested in the claimant who has a genuine commercial interest.

The defendant has been notified of the assignment by letter.

 

Value of the claim: £xxx + court fee £60 + solicitor's costs £70 total: £xxx

 

The claim was for a credit card account.

Original account started: August 2007

It is not the original creditor who has issued proceedings.

 

I was unaware the debt had been assigned and did not receive notice of this, I have moved more than 5 times in the last 6 years.

 

I can not remember receiving a default notice again this may possibly be due to the number of times I have moved.

 

I have never received a statutory notice headed “Notice of Default sums” since the date of the default to my knowledge.

 

I was unable to continue making payments with the original creditor due to financial difficulties I had at the time,

mainly due to being made redundant.

 

There was no dispute with the original creditor.

 

I did not communicate my problems with the original creditor or enter any DMP.

 

Since receiving this today

I have sent a CCA request letter to the Arrow Global

as well as a CPR request letter to their solicitor.

 

I have also acknowledge the claim form via the money claim website with an intention to defend the claim.

Edited by uub
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whos the sols please

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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not statute barred then till feb 2015 as andy points too?.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I seem to be receiving conflicting advice then because I spoke to national debt helpline and

 

 

they said that time to statute barred usually starts from the date of the last missed payment

or something along those lines

and not the date of the default as some creditors can take many months to apply a default to the account.

 

There is also other posts on this forum which seem to indicate that SB also starts from last payment and not the default.

 

What is my best course of action,

any advice is greatly appreciated.

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be careful............

 

 

it might be best to wait them to fail the CCA/CPR.

 

 

then file the no paperwork/holding defence

 

 

but that's weeks away yet.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I seem to be receiving conflicting advice then because I spoke to national debt helpline and

 

 

they said that time to statute barred usually starts from the date of the last missed payment

or something along those lines

and not the date of the default as some creditors can take many months to apply a default to the account.

 

There is also other posts on this forum which seem to indicate that SB also starts from last payment and not the default.

 

What is my best course of action,

any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

The best course of action is to find out when you last made a payment.

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I have just checked the whole of the last 6 years bank records which go back 24th October 2008 and I can see no payments being made to Capital One, I have owned the same account for over 10 years and any payments I made to Capital One at the time would have come from this account.

 

I will send a SAR to Capital One today for whatever information they hold.

 

The account number on the court papers and the account number I have are completely different, is this at all relevant? It looks to be a 16 digit visa number they have used as the account number however I still have the original Capital One card which has a different number printed on it.

 

So far I have only acknowledged the court papers on the money claim website and sent a CCA request to Arrow and a CPR request to drydensfairfax.

 

I really appreciate everyone's input, the whole thing has just got me panicking.

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If you didn't receive any DN & statement of default that follows see what comes back from the SAR.

 

 

The Cap1 SAR I have, the first page shows a print out of their TSYS customer insight.

 

 

A month after the last missed payment it shows a date that a DN issued (and the amount needed to clear the default)

and about a month after that it shows the date they issued the statement of default terminating the account

and giving them the right to demand the full balance.

 

 

Provided all the dates are correct from the last payment,

the date that they are allowed to terminate the account and request full payment would be the start of the limitation clock,

which can be several weeks after the last payment.

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I seem to be receiving conflicting advice then because I spoke to national debt helpline and

 

 

they said that time to statute barred usually starts from the date of the last missed payment

or something along those lines

and not the date of the default as some creditors can take many months to apply a default to the account.

 

There is also other posts on this forum which seem to indicate that SB also starts from last payment and not the default.

 

What is my best course of action,

any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Hi uub

 

Happy to reiterate our stance on this.

 

The default could have been recorded any length of time after the last payment was made, so is not the best indicator of when the six years are up. If you believe that over six years have lapsed since the debt became due without any subsequent payment or written acknowledgement, and you dispute/defend the debt on that basis, the onus is on the creditor to prove you wrong.

 

Dennis

@natdebtline

For Free, Confidential and Independent advice: 0808 808 4000

Monday - Friday 9am to 9pm // Saturday 9.30am to 1pm // 24-hour voicemail. Please leave a message to request an information pack. http://www.nationaldebtline.org // http://www.mymoneysteps.org

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Hi uub

 

Happy to reiterate our stance on this.

 

The default could have been recorded any length of time after the last payment was made, so is not the best indicator of when the six years are up. If you believe that over six years have lapsed since the debt became due without any subsequent payment or written acknowledgement, and you dispute/defend the debt on that basis, the onus is on the creditor to prove you wrong.

 

Dennis

@natdebtline

 

Thanks for clarifying this, I'm 99% sure this debt should be statute barred if that is indeed the case.

 

I have received 2 letters which I have attached since my last posting, Arrow Global have returned the £1 postal order which was sent with the CCA request, and they have marked it as a 'payment', I am worried this will be viewed as payment towards the account and an acknowledgement that the debt is owed?

 

What should be my next step from here?

Edited by uub
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you need to pdf attachments

 

 

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IMPORTANT To protect your IDENTITY and ensure you remain ANONYMOUS on CAG please ensure that you do a final check that all Personal Information including Barcodes, Names, Addresses etc. are REMOVED before carrying out the NEXT STEP

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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you file your defence ON TIME regardless

 

 

usual rubbish from them.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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4pm fri 19th dec

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for your reply, so if they both fail to respond/reply with the CCA/CPR, then the best course is to use a no paperwork/holding defence? what would be the likely outcome from that, I'm guessing they would ask for more time? would it not be best using both defences (statute barred & no paperwork)?

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nope you cant mix sb with anything else

 

 

you issue the NP/HD by your due date end of!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have just been preparing my defence as the date for filing is nearing closer, would some one be able to take a quick look and see if it is acceptable, thanks.

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1. The Claimant claims payment of monies owing which the Defendant has failed to pay as required under contract with the following particulars, account number xxxxxxxxxxxxx between the Defendant and Capital One for the amount of £xxxx.

 

2. The Claimant claims a default notice was served upon the Defendant which has not been complied with.

 

3. The Claimant claims this contract was assigned to the Claimant by way of a sale agreement and that the Defendant was notified of the assignment by letter.

Defence

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement. The Claimant/Solicitor has refused to disclose any agreement or statements on which its claim relies upon.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is denied as the particulars are vague and do not provide information as to who served a default notice and when.

 

4. Paragraph 3 I am unaware of any legal assignment the Claimant refers to within its particulars and deny the notice was served pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

On receipt of this claim I requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR 31.14. To date I have yet to receive a compliant response. This was posted on the 20th November 2014. To date I have had no response.

 

On receipt of this claim I requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a Section 78 request. To date I have yet to receive a response complying with the request. This was posted on the 20th November 2014. To date they have failed to comply and remain in default.

 

Therefore with the courts permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) Show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement(s); and

 

(b) Show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount(s) claimed for;

 

© Show how the agreement(s) were breached/ terminated to allow the Claimant relief.

 

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5, it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited by Andyorch
Particulars hilighted
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Thats fine uub.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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I have submitted the defence via the mcol email this morning as the website wasn't working, I have just logged in and can see the following status "Your defence was received on 17/12/2014"

 

I didn't receive any acknowledgement of them though which is nice.

 

What happens next and the normal time frames for the next step?

 

 

Edit

 

Just phoned and spoke to MCOL he said they have 33 days technically to respond and if they don't the case automatically stays (not sure on the meaning of this?)

 

Defence was received and accepted, confirmed.

 

Guess I just have to wait now.

Edited by uub
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  • 4 weeks later...

Just received this from Arrow this morning in response to my CCA request, they state they are awaiting to receive the documentation from the original creditor.

 

This seems absolutely ludicrous that they would issue small claim proceedings for a debt they have apparently purchased and do not have a copy of the original CCA to back up their apparent vested commercial interest?

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They don't get the paperwork when they buy the debt...they don't expect peeps to defend...that's why they don't request it...but they better get it:wink:

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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