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PPS PCN, appeal to PPS and PoPLA failed, next move?


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First time post and would be grateful for some advice...

 

In September of this year I was issued a PCN for not displaying the correct signage under PPS rules. The car park in question is part of a business park with several tenants, of which ours is one. We have an agreement for 20 or so parking spaces and they are covered with permits, and I have a permit to park one registered car. The signage around the parking areas denoting the T's & C's is clear and unambiguous.

 

I was using my partner's car, not the one which is registered to park here so I was covering the parking with a visitor pass, which is allowed under the rules. However, on the day in question the sign had slipped off the dashboard and under the seat and I did not notice, hence the PCN.

 

The use of my partner's car had been ongoing for some 3 weeks previously and at least 2 weeks since the PCN and I had displayed the visitor pass on every day except when I was issued the PCN. Therefore in my view this is purely a technicality of displaying signage, not that I was not allowed to park here and appealed.

 

On appeal to PPS they unsurprisingly rejected this reasoning saying the rules are the rules, they cannot take mitigating circumstances into account and so on, so I appealed to PoPLA. However, to my surprise they upheld the decision of PPS reiterating the "mitigating circumstances" part and I must pay the £100 in 14 days. It was almost a mirror decision to PPS's. What are PoPLA for if they don't take other circumstances into account? Seems like a rubber stamping process for the parking enforcement companies to me.

 

The 14 day window is fast approaching, so what are my options? I am keen to fight it but am a bit concerned about it going belly up and I end up even more out of pocket.

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Not much time now,But if you had come here for your POPLA appeal, you would have won and got the charge cancelled.

 

Now you will just have to ignore all the begging letters and empty threats...

 

You could respond to first letter with debt is denied reply but see what you get first.

 

Can you post up the sign that you think ' is clear and unambiguous ' please?

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In your case it doesnt matter whet POPLA or the parking co say, you have a contrat with your employer, who is the tenant of the spaces and can do whatever they want to do with them regarding parking. This is called supremacy of contract, in other words, as long as your employer supports you the parking co cant make a claim as your bosses contract to rent the spaces trumps thier contract to patrol the car park. if you were Joe Public, your company wouldnt have a say as the agreement to patrol is undoubtedly signed by the parking co and either the managing agents of the estate or the landowners and I would bet on the former.

What to do? Wait until you get another letter from the parking co and then write to them telling them that you have supremacy of contract and that you require sight of their contract with the landlord under pre-action protocols CPR31.16 as you believe that the company is making claims of debt that they know to be false. Then let them either sort out their paperwork and prove you wrong (but still not defeat your claim of supremacy) and try their luck or they will go quiet. You might then get begging letters from some tame DCA threatening to kidnap you granny unless you pay them £150 but they can be ignored.

The only letter you cannot ignore is one headed Letter Before Action.

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I have emailed the park managers and asked for their view and if they are not the actual land owners to give me the contact details of that person.

 

My employer has a contract with the park managing agents to provide 22 parking spaces and I was parked in one of those. So I was wondering if this angle could be pushed as I know we pay for the provision of those spaces as part of our rental agreement.

 

I realised the one letter I cannot ignore is the letter before action so I will wait to see what the park manager / land owner has to say. Hopefully I will be somewhat wiser tomorrow.

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OK got a reply back. They have washed their hands of any issues relating to parking here and the contract states they have given PPS authority to issue PCN's for any transgressions regardless of whether the person works here or not. Further, I was told they will not support anybody's appeals. Basically their line is rules are rules, if you break them suck it up and pay. Or gamble and hope you don't get the letter before action. Nice people, I hope karma pays them a visit.

 

I now know more than 10 people have been caught since they started here in September. Nobody has been successful with any appeal and they have all paid up.

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You got a reply back from the managing agents?

 

 

What does the contract your employer has, regarding parking say?

 

 

You say Nobody has been successful with any appeal , but is that to POPLA, with forum advice? I know the answer...

 

 

You and the more than ten people would have won at POPLA if you had come here for a correctly worded appeal.

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Depends what you call "correctly worded". Please tell me how you would have written it differently? I could not deny I was parked there so I worked on the premise I had parked there for 3 weeks before displaying the correct signage, could prove I worked in the building opposite and had parked in the spaces specifically provided for our company. Didn't work.

 

The contract with PPS clearly states any transgression of the parking rules (no valid permit or signage, taking up two bays, not parking in a valid space, the usual stuff) is liable to a PCN and they will not support anyone who appeals, as I found out.

 

Fortunately for me my company paid it and they are now in talks with the park owners about this, along with other tenants who feel similarly aggrieved. We understood PPS would stop the problem of people parking in our car park because the establishment next door charges. Turns out they're booking everyone and so far only one person has appealed successfully, and that was because the "second space" they parked in is not big enough for another car as it has bollards in the centre of it.

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Depends what you call "correctly worded". Please tell me how you would have written it differently? I could not deny I was parked there so I worked on the premise I had parked there for 3 weeks before displaying the correct signage, could prove I worked in the building opposite and had parked in the spaces specifically provided for our company. Didn't work.

 

The contract with PPS clearly states any transgression of the parking rules (no valid permit or signage, taking up two bays, not parking in a valid space, the usual stuff) is liable to a PCN and they will not support anyone who appeals, as I found out.

 

Fortunately for me my company paid it and they are now in talks with the park owners about this, along with other tenants who feel similarly aggrieved. We understood PPS would stop the problem of people parking in our car park because the establishment next door charges. Turns out they're booking everyone and so far only one person has appealed successfully, and that was because the "second space" they parked in is not big enough for another car as it has bollards in the centre of it.

 

 

 

 

You have summed up PPC world.

 

 

PPS make their money from the tickets they issue.

 

 

At a guess, I'd say they told the park owners that they would manage the parking for nothing, but keep the proceeds of the ' parking tickets ' they issue....

 

 

 

A correctly worded appeal to POPLA would be based on points of law. ( why would the general public know this? )

 

 

Have a read of the POPLA wins here:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?405805-PPC-Successes-(No-Questions-please)/page5

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