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      • 16 replies
welshman123

Received a parking charge notice from New Generation Parking Management - ** WON AT POPLA **

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Hi All,

 

Yesterday I received a parking charge notice from NGP Ltd

informing me that I was parked on private land on the 3rd November 2014.

 

 

The location in question is an access road called penrhos in Llantwit Fardre

 

 

The PCN is asking for payment of £60 if payed in 14 days or £100 after this which is extortionate for 10 minutes parking.

 

 

The car was left there as on this one rare occasion I was picking up my children from school as my wife was unable to due to illness.

 

 

The vehicle was left there for around 10 minutes and was parked just at the entrance of the road

and mostly of the road on a grass bank causing no obstruction.

 

 

There were actually 2 other cars parked in front of me but all their wheels were off the road on the grass bank.

 

 

Normally if there is space the car would have been parked in a parking space owned by the adjacent restaurant

where the owner allows us to park and has nothing to do with NGP.

 

On receiving the notice yesterday

I appealed using their appeals process and received an e-mail from them this morning stating the claim had been rejected with a POPLA reference.

 

On reading their rejection letter/e-mail it stated that there were parking condition signs at the entrance of the road

and further along the road.

 

 

On inspecting the road today there are no signs at the entrance

and the only signs I could see were one about 50 mtrs from where I parked

and the other about 120 mtrs from where I parked

both on the opposite side of the road to the footpath that you would use .

Where I was parked it did not look like that these sign covered this area as they were so far away.

 

 

Both these signs were on temporary wooden post and the font very difficult to ready unless up close to them

which due to no footpath that side of the road is very unlikely.

 

 

The only part of the sign what is legible is the section saying the site is monitored by CCTV which it is not.

 

I need advise on the above and reading other threads I plan to appeal using the POPLA process but need advise on how I should draft my appeal.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice offered.

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So what was the Parking Charge Notice for?

 

 

What do NGPM claim?

 

And how was your appeal worded?

 

Did you identify the driver in your appeal email?

 

There was no windscreen ticket(?)

 

 

So it is ANPR.

 

 

So where abouts you parked on the grass bank is irrelevant.

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Hi Armadillo,

 

NGPM are claiming "the vehicle is in breach of the terms and conditions of the site detailed" reason "parked on pavement.

 

My appeal was worded that I do not frequently park in this location, the vehicle was parked in a manor to avoid obstructing other traffic,

 

 

I was not aware of the restrictions where I was parked.

 

I identified my self as the driver in the appeal

 

There was no ticket on the windscreen, I received the notice from NGPM as a letter sent via BMW as the car is a lease.

 

The picture I received just has a time and date stamp, looks more like a standard digital camera picture.

 

 

Would ANPR be mobile or static and what information would you expect to be displayed on the photo.

 

Where the car was parked there was no parking notice signs for about 50 mtrs, should they have had a sign near the entrance.

 

What is the best approach for appeal or do you think it is worth appealing.

 

Thanks for your help

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since when are there any laws that say you cant park on pavements on private property....

 

 

now that would be a first...

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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If there is no sign at the "entrance" to the area...... Then no "contract" was entered .

In addition they are supposed to allow time (10 mins or so ) to stop read the signs and decide if you "agree" with the "contract" !!

 

What time frames do they give on the photos ???

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Hi F16,

 

They did not give any time frames, they just state the time of 03.11.14 - 15:28,

this would have been about 4 minutes after I parked.

 

 

I have regular conference calls at 15:30 on a Monday so would have had to got back home for as near as that time as possible.

 

 

The reason I parked where I did was that there was no sign in this location and people regularly park there.

 

 

If I did not want to take notice of the parking notices further down the road I would have parked there

as it would have been closer to the school.

 

 

I have taken photo evidence to show there are no signs.

 

 

It seems totally extortionate trying to charge £100 reduced to £60.

 

 

I have the opportunity for a POPLA appeal but not sure what to put in it.

 

Thanks

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You have a POPLA code, so the charge will get cancelled there.

 

£100 or £60 is not a GPEOL for any alleged breach of their terms and conditions.

 

Also you have inadequate signage, lack of authority to issue and pursue charge notices, but not being a Genuine Pre Estimate Of Loss will win it...

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since when are there any laws that say you cant park on pavements on private property....

 

 

now that would be a first...

 

 

dx

 

Hi DX,

 

Its not even a pavement more waste land, annoys me even more.

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Hi Armadillo,

 

Thanks for this, its been worrying me since I received the PCN on Friday. Is there a format I should use for my POPLA appeal.

 

Thanks for your help, its really appreciated.

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get down there and photograph the entrance to the site,

any signs there,

the position of your vehicle and

any other signage on the site managed by NGP.

 

 

Then come back here and tell us how big these signs are and where they are in relation to the entrance and where you parked.

 

Your appeal to POPLA will be on 3 points

 

1. contract with landowner as it appears that there is a good chance that the permissions to extract oney from you doesnt actually exist

 

2 inadequate signage to form a contract- that is why we need to knwo about the signs and their wording, colour, font size etc.

 

3 no loss caused by your action

-they dont own the site,

it is free to use so no loss can have occured directly as a result.

 

 

We will expand on this when you get the other 2 points sorted out.

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Hi Armadillo,

 

Thanks for this, its been worrying me since I received the PCN on Friday. Is there a format I should use for my POPLA appeal.

 

Thanks for your help, its really appreciated.

 

You go to the POPLA website and enter your code on appeal section.

 

You could just enter that you do not believe that £100 is a genuine pre estimate of loss, that the charge must represent, for an alleged breach of terms and conditions.

 

But it is probably best to add points 1 and 2 as ericsbrother has stated.

 

You can add to your appeal once you have uploaded it.

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Minimum size for signs is 450mm x 450mm. ..... Take a tape measure.

 

Must be readable from the drivers seat of a vehicle at the entrance to the area.

 

Measure the "font" size as well.

Post up the photos of the signs.

Good Luck

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I have just noticed on the appeal rejection letter that their reason for rejection is wrong in 2 ways.

1. They are saying that parking restrictions are clearly stated at the entrance of the site which they are not.

 

2. They are also saying "Signage clearly states that parking, stopping or waiting on the roadways/yellow lines

or hatched areas is subject to a parking tariff of £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days".

 

 

The PCN they sent states a reason of "Parking On Pavement" this is not mentioned in the appeal rejection (see extract below).

 

Extract

 

"Thank you for your letter concerning the above parking event.

Please rest assured that our Appeals Managers have personally investigated this claim

and carefully considered the various points you have raised with us.

 

 

However, based on the information we have received, we will not be waiving Charge on this occasion.

 

 

For the reasons stated.

 

Parking restrictions are clearly stated at the entrance to and within the site, which must be adhered to at all times.

 

 

Signage clearly states that parking, stopping or waiting on the roadways/yellow lines or hatched areas

is subject to a parking tariff of £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days."

 

Do these points also make a difference and needs to be added in to the appeal.

 

Thanks

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]54352[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]54353[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]54354[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]54355[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]54356[/ATTACH]

 

Pictures of entrance, sign and also the PCN image

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where is the sign in relation to the entrance? where is it in relation to where you parked? your opening post says where but if you really want to stick it to them you should get a photo of the signs as seen from the entrance, even if it is a speck in the distance.

The answers to the above questions will help prove to the adjudicators that the parking co is making things up as far as their claim goes but there are more arguments that will defeat them so use them as well.

first argument is that you do not believe that the parking co hasthe assigned authority to make claims for damages in their own name and you demand sight of the contract between th parking co and landowner that gives them the right to use civil procedure to claim in their own name.

secondly, using the evidence above and the new picture/measurements you say that the signage is not visible from the road or where you parked and that it is inadequate in both siting and size to be considered so no contract formed.

You then say that there has been no breach because the claimed breach of contract is not listed as a contractual obligation on the sign so no breach of this condition could occur.

lastly you say that no loss to the parking co has been caused by your action, even if a contract was formed and that said contract was subsequently broken so the amount claimed for breach of contract does not represent the company's losses nor a genuine pre-estimate of losses directly resulting from the supposed breach.

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where is the sign in relation to the entrance? where is it in relation to where you parked? your opening post says where but if you really want to stick it to them you should get a photo of the signs as seen from the entrance, even if it is a speck in the distance.

The answers to the above questions will help prove to the adjudicators that the parking co is making things up as far as their claim goes but there are more arguments that will defeat them so use them as well.

first argument is that you do not believe that the parking co hasthe assigned authority to make claims for damages in their own name and you demand sight of the contract between th parking co and landowner that gives them the right to use civil procedure to claim in their own name.

secondly, using the evidence above and the new picture/measurements you say that the signage is not visible from the road or where you parked and that it is inadequate in both siting and size to be considered so no contract formed.

You then say that there has been no breach because the claimed breach of contract is not listed as a contractual obligation on the sign so no breach of this condition could occur.

lastly you say that no loss to the parking co has been caused by your action, even if a contract was formed and that said contract was subsequently broken so the amount claimed for breach of contract does not represent the company's losses nor a genuine pre-estimate of losses directly resulting from the supposed breach.

 

Hi Ericsbrother,

 

Thanks for your help, are these the arguments I should put in to the POPLA appeal form. Am I able to add photo evidence to the appeal.

 

Thanks

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Just took picture from entrance as advised, the picture from the entrance shows where the first sign starts, I was parked just after the first small car you can see to your right. Does anyone know what the font sizes should be on the signs. I have read the BPA code of practice and not sure if there has to be group 1 text on the signs.

 

[ATTACH]54359[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]54360[/ATTACH]

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Follow #18. ... That's the "deal breaker".....

No "Contract" !!!!

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Just received the appeal decision from POPLA and they are allowing my appeal, see below. Thanks for all your help with the advice provided.

 

"**** ***** (Appellant)

-v-

New Generation Parking Management Ltd (Operator)

 

The Operator issued parking charge notice number 2***** arising out of a presence on private land, of a vehicle with registration mark ******.

The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge. The Assessor has considered the evidence of both parties and has

determined that the appeal be allowed.

The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.

The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith.

Parking on Private Land Appeals is administered by the Transport and Environment Committee of London Councils Calls to Parking on Private Land Appeals may be recorded

Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination

It is the Appellant’s case that the parking charge notice was issued incorrectly.

The Operator has not produced a copy of the parking charge notice, nor any evidence to show a breach of the conditions of parking occurred, nor any evidence that shows what the conditions of parking, in fact, were.

Accordingly I have no option but to allow the appeal."

  • Haha 1

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Well done you, and thank you for letting us know. :)

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Well done Welshman !!

 

They had to give up

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They offered no evidence rather than risk getting done for fraud by deception. Good choice for them, shame the bandits didnt think about it a bit more when you appealed to them..

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Its really amusing to see how NGP seem to work. They have a wheel clamp fixed to a post that has a parking sign on it in the area they issued my PCN. Most of the people that park in the area not owned my the landlord are mothers picking up their children from infant school. Most are unaware that clamping on private land was made illegal back in October 2012, so see this clamp as a threat.

 

Not sure if many of you have seen the link below but there is a guy trying to pull together a petition to challenge the parking companies in high court. Don't know how far it will get but worth signing the petition.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/11242760/How-private-parking-firms-trap-motorists-into-paying-fines.html

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