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Hi All,

 

Earlier on today, around 4:00pm, someone rung the buzzer for our flat (we live in a small block),

 

 

I answered and the person asked for me by name and said they were from Enfield Council,

I said to hold on, I left my flat and went to the front door of the block,

 

 

the man said he had come round in regards to the outstanding Council Tax debt, which I do not dispute,

after a while, he then said he was from Equita and turned his badge round, which had the name CHRIS on it, as it was facing his chest prior.

 

I stated that I was unable to speak with him, as I was on the way to pick up my son from an after school club

and that he could speak with my partner who was at home with our 2 year old son,

 

 

he started saying he was there to take goods and will start with my car, which was in the communal car park,

parked in my allocated parking space, with my door number on display.

 

He followed me into the block and stood by the front door entrance to my flat, as I did not let him in.

 

I quickly explained what was happening to my partner, she told me she would deal with him

and that I needed to go pick up our 9 year old son from school.

I left my flat and told him that my partner would talk to him,

 

 

I went outside to the car park and walked towards my car,

he followed me, then rushed in front of me and stood between myself and the car,

as I attempted to gain entry, he started to push me in my chest to get me away from the car,

I managed to unlock the car, open the door and sit in the vehicle.

 

Before I could close the door, he attempted to drag me out of the car, saying that it now belongs to Equita, as he had seized it,

although he had not provided me with any paperwork at all.

 

After a short while, he gave up trying to pull me out and instead decided to use force to restrain me within the vehicle,

he pushed his left forearm against my chest and used all his strength to pin me to my seat in my car,

he then repeatedly tried to snatch the car keys from my left hand, with his right hand, this lasted for quite a few minutes.

 

He was applying so much pressure to my chest at one point, that I found it difficult to breath and told him so,

but he continued to press me into my car seat,

 

 

he then started shouting at my that I tried to "mug him off" and that he was taking the car as "it belongs to Equita now"

 

 

I told him that he cannot use force against me, restrain me, or force his way into my car and that I was also having difficulty breathing,

 

 

I also stated that I needed to pick up my son from school but he said that "its ok, he can walk home on his own".

 

He then started shouting that he "goes to the gym a lot and that he only weighs 11 stone,

but is very strong and fit, unlike me who is 18 stone plus and that he could hold me there all day, until I gave him my car keys"

 

 

he then kept saying "I bet you are on benefits as well", which I am, but cannot see how that is relevant to him.

 

After a short while, my partner came out with our 2 year old son and strapped him into his car seat,

at this point the bailiff got even more angry and started to shout out her to take him out of the car,

 

 

my partner seeing me in distress and pinned down, then tried to pull him off me,

at this point he punched me in my mouth, bursting my lip,

 

 

he quickly let go of me, turned around and punched my partner in her mouth as well,

followed by a punch to the side of her head, he then went after her and punched her in her stomach.

 

I got out of the car and he backed away from her,

at which point I noticed he had dropped his car keys

 

 

I picked up his car keys, shouted at him that I would seize his car,

he rushed over to me and tried to grab his keys, at which point I threw them as far as I could into the car park,

my partner ran over to the keys and threw them further,

 

 

as he ran off to get his keys, my partner and I got into the car and drove off to my sons school and called the police.

 

I had blood all over my mouth and some blood stains on my shirt,

my 9 year old was really distressed when he got to the car and saw my injuries and started crying

and said he didn't want to go home,

 

 

we drove to his grandmothers house in the borough of Waltham Forest,

the police said they would meet us there and have an ambulance waiting.

 

When I arrived, the ambulance was there and the crew assessed my injuries, whilst we waited for the police.

 

I had a swollen, bruised and split lip, severe pain to the right side of my jaw, aching front teeth and pains in my chest.

 

My partner also had a split lip, with some bruising and was feeling concussed.

 

The ambulance crew advised that we both went to A&E to get treatment, as our injuries were quite prominent,

I stated that I needed to take the kids home, as their grandmother wasn't in, only my partners younger sister,

who wouldn't be able to look after the kids on her own.

 

The police arrived and were very helpful and understanding and took our statements,

they said that they were from the Waltham Forest borough,

so had to get in touch with Enfield police to see if any reports had been made.

 

After a while, they came back and said that the bailiff had made a counter claim,

stating that I had punched him and he had given my name and description,

so it will need to be investigated and that I will have to go to a police station on appointment to give a statement on what happened.

 

I had not punched him at all, the most I did was try to push him off me as he was holding me down in my car.

 

I do not dispute owing council tax, as I am on zero to low income since losing my job at the beginning of the year

and have been in touch with the council, making payments as and when I could,

 

 

last payment I made was 28th of October for the arrears on my last years council tax, however the bailiff was chasing this years council tax, plus some others from a few years back when I was struggling to make ends meet and had made payments towards, albeit not since the beginning of the year, prior to losing my job.

 

We took pictures of our injuries and one of the police officers asked them to email them to her,, my partner has a slight cut and bruise on her top lip, my bottom lip has cuts, swelling, bruising and there is some bruising on my gums by my teeth.

 

Since returning home, I have found it extremely painful to eat or drink water and my partner has a severe headache.

 

Thanks for reading.

Edited by MrML

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ok well its in the hands of the police

let them deal with the assault side of things

 

 

most areas have CCTV I suggest you go get a copy.

 

 

on the CTAX front

time to go complain to the CEO

they are responsible for the bailiffs actions

send them a copy of your post

and Demand compensation etc etc etc

 

 

and email the ctax office asking for the following.

.

Here is something to be getting on with.

.

First of all establish from the Council how much was owing etc

.

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

...........................

.

Next you need to send off for a breakdown of the charges the Bailiff applied.

.

Here's an example,

use and ADAPT at will and best sent initially by email backed up by a copy in the post.

.

"From:

My Name

My Address

.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

.

Ref: Account No: 123456

.

Dear Sir

.

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

.

This is NOT a Subject Access Request

uest under the Data Protection Act S7 1998

so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

.

I require this information within 14 days.

.

Yours faithfully

.

Ripped off customer"

.


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if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Hi dx100uk,

 

Many thanks for your reply, no CCTV unfortunately, so the police are saying it is my word against his, although myself and my partner do have bruises/injuries to show for it.

 

I will email the CEO at Enfield Council straightaway and get onto the council in the morning to find out how much I owe exactly.

 

I will also email the bailiffs and request the breakdown in fees and further information.

 

ML

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Welcome to the Forum and I am so sorry to hear your problems with the bailiff there are still some dreadful thugs in that job-I wouldn't call it a profession.

 

Before the bailiff came you should have received from his company a Notice of Enforcement which should explain that you have 7 clear days to contact the company

to arrange a payment plan for outstanding Council tax. Did you receive that letter and did you contact the bailiff company within the time frame given? If you did

get the letter it is very important that you remember the exact date/day you received it and let us know. The bailiff has already lied to you by stating that he was

from the council as well as assaulting you both so he may well have ignored the Law that requires him to wait 7 clear days from the day you get the letter till they can visit.

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I am posting the question again here with the correct spacing. Hopefully it will make it simpler to read:

 

 

Hi All,

 

Earlier on today, around 4:00pm, someone rung the buzzer for our flat (we live in a small block),

 

 

I answered and the person asked for me by name and said they were from Enfield Council, I said to hold on, I left my flat and went to the front door of the block, the man said he had come round in regards to the outstanding Council Tax debt, which I do not dispute. After a while, he then said he was from Equita and turned his badge round, which had the name CHRIS on it, as it was facing his chest prior.

 

I stated that I was unable to speak with him, as I was on the way to pick up my son from an after school club and that he could speak with my partner who was at home with our 2 year old son, he started saying he was there to take goods and will start with my car, which was in the communal car park, parked in my allocated parking space, with my door number on display.

 

He followed me into the block and stood by the front door entrance to my flat, as I did not let him in. I quickly explained what was happening to my partner, she told me she would deal with him and that I needed to go pick up our 9 year old son from school. I left my flat and told him that my partner would talk to him. I went outside to the car park and walked towards my car, he followed me, then rushed in front of me and stood between myself and the car, as I attempted to gain entry, he started to push me in my chest to get me away from the car, I managed to unlock the car, open the door and sit in the vehicle.

 

Before I could close the door, he attempted to drag me out of the car, saying that it now belongs to Equita, as he had seized it, although he had not provided me with any paperwork at all.

 

After a short while, he gave up trying to pull me out and instead decided to use force to restrain me within the vehicle, he pushed his left forearm against my chest and used all his strength to pin me to my seat in my car, he then repeatedly tried to snatch the car keys from my left hand, with his right hand, this lasted for quite a few minutes.

 

He was applying so much pressure to my chest at one point, that I found it difficult to breath and told him so, but he continued to press me into my car seat, he then started shouting at my that I tried to "mug him off" and that he was taking the car as "it belongs to Equita now" I told him that he cannot use force against me, restrain me, or force his way into my car and that I was also having difficulty breathing, I also stated that I needed to pick up my son from school but he said that "its ok, he can walk home on his own".

 

He then started shouting that he "goes to the gym a lot and that he only weighs 11 stone, but is very strong and fit, unlike me who is 18 stone plus and that he could hold me there all day, until I gave him my car keys" . He then kept saying "I bet you are on benefits as well", which I am, but cannot see how that is relevant to him. After a short while, my partner came out with our 2 year old son and strapped him into his car seat, at this point the bailiff got even more angry and started to shout out her to take him out of the car. My partner seeing me in distress and pinned down, then tried to pull him off me, at this point he punched me in my mouth, bursting my lip, he quickly let go of me, turned around and punched my partner in her mouth as well, followed by a punch to the side of her head, he then went after her and punched her in her stomach.

 

I got out of the car and he backed away from her, at which point I noticed he had dropped his car keys. I picked up his car keys, shouted at him that I would seize his car. He rushed over to me and tried to grab his keys, at which point I threw them as far as I could into the car park,

my partner ran over to the keys and threw them further, as he ran off to get his keys, my partner and I got into the car and drove off to my sons school and called the police.

 

I had blood all over my mouth and some blood stains on my shirt, my 9 year old was really distressed when he got to the car and saw my injuries and started crying and said he didn't want to go home. We drove to his grandmothers house in the borough of Waltham Forest,

the police said they would meet us there and have an ambulance waiting.

 

When I arrived, the ambulance was there and the crew assessed my injuries, whilst we waited for the police. I had a swollen, bruised and split lip, severe pain to the right side of my jaw, aching front teeth and pains in my chest.

 

My partner also had a split lip, with some bruising and was feeling concussed. The ambulance crew advised that we both went to A&E to get treatment, as our injuries were quite prominent, I stated that I needed to take the kids home, as their grandmother wasn't in, only my partners younger sister, who wouldn't be able to look after the kids on her own.

 

The police arrived and were very helpful and understanding and took our statements. They said that they were from the Waltham Forest borough, so had to get in touch with Enfield police to see if any reports had been made.

 

After a while, they came back and said that the bailiff had made a counter claim, stating that I had punched him and he had given my name and description, so it will need to be investigated and that I will have to go to a police station on appointment to give a statement on what happened. I had not punched him at all, the most I did was try to push him off me as he was holding me down in my car.

 

I do not dispute owing council tax, as I am on zero to low income since losing my job at the beginning of the year and have been in touch with the council, making payments as and when I could. Last payment I made was 28th of October for the arrears on my last years council tax, however the bailiff was chasing this years council tax, plus some others from a few years back when I was struggling to make ends meet and had made payments towards, albeit not since the beginning of the year, prior to losing my job.

 

I have attached some pics of the bruises as well, my partner has a slight cut and bruise on her top lip, my bottom lip has cuts, swelling, bruising and there is some bruising on my gums by my teeth.

 

Since returning home, I have found it extremely painful to eat or drink water and my partner has a severe headache.

Edited by citizenB
quote box to identify post originally by MrML

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Do as DX suggests and also keep any pictures of your injuries as this nasty individual from Capquita may well try to get you and your partner prosecuted for obstructing him in the execution of his duty as in trying to take your car, and you chucking his keys. However I feel he is on extremely thin ice himself, as his attempt at seizure is wholly disproportionate and just plain wrong. I am disgusted with how low "Chris" stooped to try to take the car, not only has he broken the law himself as in possible causing ABH, but the seizure is most likely unlawful due to the way he tried to snatch the keys

 

.Is the car worth more than £500, even if worth £1000 it would not be worth his while to take and sell it. He was out to bully and intimidate end of, and Equita should sack him imho.

 

Were there any other witnesses, as in neighbours?

 

How much is owing in total, and what benefits are you claiming?

 

Is there any ongoing illness or disability in the family?

 

These questions will help frame best advice to tackle the debt, which must be addressed separately from the other issue of the assault.


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Mr M.L

 

Hopefully you did not mind me reposting your question.

 

I am so sorry to hear of your awful experience and in particular, that your son witnessed the event. As dx100 has stated above, the matter is now in the hands of police and that is the correct procedure.

 

Given the popularity of this forum and the importance of this subject, I would like to mention something else that may be relevant in the coming days with the police investigation and this concerns a significant change that was made to the bailiff regulations on 6th April 2014.

 

The new regulations provide under section 68.1 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunal Courts & Enforcement Act that it is an offence for a debtor to obstruct a bailiff from his role of seeking to 'take control of goods' and that a person found guilty on conviction may face being fined (level 4) or in serious cases, could be sent to prison for a term not exceeding 51 weeks...or both.

 

I read a very recent article by the Director General of CIVEA (the bailiffs governing body) who stated that in the last year there were over 800 'reported' assaults against bailiffs and I would suspect that the new rules were put in place to curb this. The regulations also apply to debtors who attempt to remove a wheel clamp from a vehicle.

 

Please be assured that the reason why I am mentioning this is because viewers may well not be aware of the new regulations and also because of the possibility of the police referring to this new regulation during the course of the investigation into this incident.

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You should knock at all neighbours' door and ask if anyone saw the assault.

Usually there's someone looking through the curtains.

An independent witness will make your case much stronger and possibly convince the police to charge this thug.

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Mr M.L

 

Hopefully you did not mind me reposting your question.

 

I am so sorry to hear of your awful experience and in particular, that your son witnessed the event. As dx100 has stated above, the matter is now in the hands of police and that is the correct procedure.

 

Given the popularity of this forum and the importance of this subject, I would like to mention something else that may be relevant in the coming days with the police investigation and this concerns a significant change that was made to the bailiff regulations on 6th April 2014.

 

The new regulations provide under section 68.1 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunal Courts & Enforcement Act that it is an offence for a debtor to obstruct a bailiff from his role of seeing to 'take control of goods' and that a person found guilty on conviction may face being fined (level 4) or in serious cases, could be sent to prison for a term not exceeding 51 weeks...or both.

 

I read a very recent article by the Director General of CIVEA (the bailiffs governing body) who stated that in the last year there were over 800 'reported' assaults against bailiffs and I would suspect that the new rules were put in place to curb this. The regulations also apply to debtors who attempt to remove a wheel clamp from a vehicle.

 

Please be assured that the reason why I am mentioning this is because viewers may well not be aware of the new regulations and also because of the possibility of the police referring to this new regulation during the course of the investigation into this incident.

 

That is the very reason I mentioned that they may come after you for obstruction. Not of course that they actually will given the heavy handed action and assault on you both by the bailiff; thanks for highlighting the changes BA.

 

This provision may come back to bite MOJ if the actions of this particular bailiff become common, and they resort to a smack the debtor, and cry wolf tactic as they have in the past, but now emboldened by the Obstruction clause.

 

Now if you can post up the debt details and whether any enforcement predates April 6th this year, Caggers can help you sort that side out whilst the police deal with the other.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Welcome to the Forum and I am so sorry to hear your problems with the bailiff there are still some dreadful thugs in that job-I wouldn't call it a profession.

 

Before the bailiff came you should have received from his company a Notice of Enforcement which should explain that you have 7 clear days to contact the company

to arrange a payment plan for outstanding Council tax. Did you receive that letter and did you contact the bailiff company within the time frame given? If you did

get the letter it is very important that you remember the exact date/day you received it and let us know. The bailiff has already lied to you by stating that he was

from the council as well as assaulting you both so he may well have ignored the Law that requires him to wait 7 clear days from the day you get the letter till they can visit.

 

Hi, yes, he came after 7 days of the letter, when I got the letter, I called Equita and they were demanding unreasonable payments that I could not afford, I also called the council and informed them that I wanted to make arrangements to pay, but the bailiff company were being unreasonable, however the person I spoke to at the council said it was no longer their issue and I had to deal with the bailiff company.

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Mr

 

The new regulations provide under section 68.1 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunal Courts & Enforcement Act that it is an offence for a debtor to obstruct a bailiff from his role of seeking to 'take control of goods' and that a person found guilty on conviction may face being fined (level 4) or in serious cases, could be sent to prison for a term not exceeding 51 weeks...

 

I was aware of this part of the Act which is why I asked that Mr ML think about the arrival of the letter so as to ensure that the EA should have been there on that date.

Of course once the OP was in the car then the bailiff shpuld have taken into consideration section 10 [2] of the Taking Control of Goods Act 2013 where if the item which

the EA is trying to take into control is in use, the EA may not take that item into control if such action in all the circumstances may lead to a breach of the peace.

That it was the bailiff that did a whole lot more than just breach the peace does seem ironic.

Moreover the OP had explained the situation to the bailiff and handed over the situation to his wife to negotiate so he was complying with the bailiff and acting perfectly reasonably. There was no reason for the bailiff to

chase after him as the car was already under his control and after a payment schedule had been agreed, the car could still have been used by the OP. In any

event, the bailiff when he was struggling with Mr ML, had no idea who the car belonged to; whether it was on finance or a company car etc.

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Hi, yes, he came after 7 days of the letter, when I got the letter, I called Equita and they were demanding unreasonable payments that I could not afford, I also called the council and informed them that I wanted to make arrangements to pay, but the bailiff company were being unreasonable, however the person I spoke to at the council said it was no longer their issue and I had to deal with the bailiff company.

 

Thank you for responding. As I said above, given that the police are involved it would be wise to keep the subject of the 'assault' to one side.

 

A most welcome change to the new regulations has been the introduction of a 'compliance stage' which is the period of time from receipt of the Notice of Enforcement until the date given on the notice (which should be '7 clear days') to allow for either payment to be made or a payment proposal to be set up. However, the payment proposal is very much determined by the terms of the contract between the bailiff company and the relevant local authority. As an example, some contracts permit the bailiff company to accept repayment terms for council tax arrears over a maximum period of 6 months whilst some are as little as 3 months.

 

In your particular case, it would seem from the above post that the bailiff was seeking to enforce a Liability Order for this year's council tax and also for some other Liability Orders from previous years. As mentioned above, new bailiff regulations came into effect on 6th April this year and new bailiff fees have been introduced. This would also have an affect on the fees that can now be charged for the older Liability Orders that you have.

 

If you have the amounts of the Liability Orders and the fees that may have already been added we can look to see whether the charges are correct or not.

 

PS: Given that you are not working or have a low income have you applied for council tax benefit?

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For anyone interested, the poster (Mr ML) also posted a copy of this question on another forum in the early hours of yesterday. It would appear that the thread was removed from public view and I would assume is being dealt with in private.

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For anyone interested, the poster (Mr ML) also posted a copy of this question on another forum in the early hours of yesterday. It would appear that the thread was removed from public view and I would assume is being dealt with in private.

 

Well that is that then, if it is "that" forum. I hope all goes well for OP.


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Well that is that then, if it is "that" forum. I hope all goes well for OP.

 

The other forum will always see some people use their advice, because they appear more supportive in going after the bailiff companies. No doubt they have been advised how to make complaints and if necessary issue a court claim.


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Please note it is more than 24 hours since the OP last looked at this thread. I would suggest that until they make a request for help then it is left rest.


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I wonder if it was real in the first place............

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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I wonder if it was real in the first place............

dx

 

With so many 'spoof' posts coming onto this forum (and at the same time on LB) it has made a lot of us very suspicious and that is very sad indeed.

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