please help,dog bitten postie

[gotham]

a friend recommended me to this site,after hearing my predicament.

about a year ago myself and my wife had just got back from walking the dog aprox 3pm.

we put him in passage way to eat his food,the passage is about 6ft wide and 10ft long.

sealed at both ends with external doors.as we dont have a letter box on our front door,the post woman posted the letter through that door and my dog bit her finger.

the door is wood up to letter box then has nine CLEAR glass pannels. the letter box is just a letter flap on outside,no bristles or back flap on inside so no resistance.

we brought her in and cleaned and dressed wound and offered to take her to hospital.

while treating the wound my wife asked why she had put her fingers throu

gh box,she said she was fiddling with letters and not concentrating.which of course is not what she says now,but i beleive to be true.or whilst liffting the flap with 1 hand and posting with other she would have seen dog through class.

she needed a couple of stitches in her finger,she says dog pulled letter and her fingers through letter box and bit finger.

the union then sent a letter putting a claaim for compensation.i sent pics of door also letter box and pointed out i felt it was her neglect of health and safety she got bitten.

they then passed it to there solicitors,it went quiet for months. but now recieved a letter saying they're going to proceed with civil court action for compensation. not sure if insurance covers us and i cant afford lots of solicitors fees.

C.A.B said she was on our property the dog was contained it down to her.

please help..

[havinastella]

Does your home insurance cover this??

[Mr.P]

[...]while treating the wound my wife asked why she had put her fingers through the box

[...]

the union then sent a letter putting a claim for compensation.i sent pics of door also letter box and pointed out i felt it was her neglect of health and safety she got bitten.

 

Postal workers are constantly reminded in staff meetings and internal news letters not to poke fingers through letter boxes. Might be worth reading some of the Royal Mail briefings on dogs: http://www.myroyalmail.com/taxonomy/tags/dangerous-dogs in particular: http://www.myroyalmail.com/news/national/2014/03/minimise-your-risk-dangerous-dogs

[steampowered]

What do the solicitors say the legal basis of the claim is?

[gotham]

thank you mr.p

i will take a look at these links . that is why she changed it to the dog pulled her fingers through the door ,as i pointed out they are told not to put there fingers through letter boxes.

but if i have got some off there own literature/briefing could be very helpful.

[gotham]

they have said the claim will be brought under the common law rules and also under the dangerous dogs act.

and say there has been past problems,no one has ever notified us of any problems.

i have sent a letter to manager requesting the information in there incident books etc.

they haven't given any details of what there claiming for ie loss of earnings etc

thank you steampowered

[steampowered]

At this stage, I would write back denying liability. This is worth doing because an indication that you will properly defend the claim will affect the decision of her solicitors whether or not to take on this case on a no-win-no-fee basis. If they won't take it on NWNF that makes it much less likely the postie will bring a claim. Do check whether this is covered by your home insurance first though.

 

With regards to the common law rules, I assume they are referring to a common law claim for negligence. You can state that you were not negligent, since the dog was contained and was also clearly visible behind the glass. You can also state that you will rely on the Law Reform (Contributory Negligence) Act 1945, since the postie was careless to stick her fingers through the envelope box when she could see the dog inside. You can also state that this is contrary to Royal Mail guidance.

 

With regards to the Dangerous Dogs Act, you can state that this does not apply since (1) your property is not a 'public place' as defined in the Act, and (2) the dog was kept under proper control at all times.

[rebel11]

This sounds like the post person is being 'opportunistic', the following might explain why,

 

'New legislation means owners can now be prosecuted for dog attacks that take place on private property '.

 

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/royal-mail-launches-annual-dog-awareness-week

 

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/biting-back-against-dog-attacks-mps-support-royal-mail%E2%80%99s-dog-awareness-week

 

Thinking out of the box. All post person's are given H & S training by their employer regards to dogs, could you not write a Formal Letter of Complaint to Royal Mail, that they failed in their Duty of Care to their employee, resulting in a stressful situation for you compounded further by a posibility of legal action against you by their employee.

 

It might help in any defence.

 

If you do, Write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such.

Explain what's happened (post person stuck hand through letter box, not concentrating), how you have been let down (lack of Health and Safety training given by Royal Mail) and what you want them to do.

 

Send it to:-

 

Ms Moya Greene

Chief Executive

Royal Mail

[email protected]

 

They also need to know that the employee isn't adhering to H & S training, isn't concentrating. Ask them to send a Manager down so you can fully explain what happened and see for themselves that the employee was responsible of her own injuries as she was not concentrating.

[Ethel Street]

If you have household insurance this sort of claim should be covered by the Public Liability section so do notify your insurers immediately and don't get into any correspondnce with the postie or their union. Leave it to your insurers.

 

Insurance policies normally say you must pass the claim to the insurer to deal with and no get involved yourself so it's not a good idea to write to RM or anyone else about this as it might invalidate your insurance.

[citizenB]

If you have pet insurance, there might be something on that, that might help.

[Mr.P]

If you have household insurance this sort of claim should be covered by the Public Liability section so do notify your insurers immediately and don't get into any correspondnce with the postie or their union. Leave it to your insurers.

 

Agree entirely. The CWU have their own group of solicitors to pursue these sorts of claims (at no cost to the postie), if you can pass on the case to your own insurers, do so as soon as possible.

[raydetinu]

agree notify insurers and let them deal with it.

You will have to make a statement though.

[Ganymede]

Hi, lots of issues around dog bite claims.

 

For example you may need to confirm if the dog had a history of being agressive, if the dog was restrained in any way, if the dog was muzzled, what training the dog had, what warning signs were in place regarding the dog.

 

Obviously there is a duty on the Postal Worker to take care of themselves which at worst would be they are apportioned some contributory negligence and at best it defeats the claim entirely.

 

Pass this to your insurers immediately.

[gotham]

im waiting to hear back from them,initially on the phone they said i wasnt covered. solicitor said before they start working for me privately as will be expensive,write to insurance as they have known people actually be covered at the end .when told they were not

[gotham]

i initially denied all liability and said i wasnt taking legal advise until i knew there full intention .as i sent pictures and a letter explaining why i felt her neglegent (to the legal team of the union).

that is when they passed it on to there solicitors. they advised me to my statement i was waiting to hear there intention,that they were going forward with civil court actions.

so i think it is probably the union paying for the solicitors,so have a large pot of money and a want to prove how they look after there members.

[gotham]

oh dear. but they did initially say we wasn't covered so i hope i can say thats why i got into correspondence.

[gotham]

that is a good idea rebel11 ,as when they say she has been fully trained .she wont be able to deny anything.

we have complained to royal mail,because few weeks later from the incident.

my wife was walking our dog (with a friend who was walking her dogs) when they came across the post women.

my dog started to bark ,so my wife moved into the middle of the road and got my dog to sit by her side.so the post women could pass.

the postie then says is that rover to which my wife replied yes.

she then came up to my wife and verbally assaulted her and poking her finger towards her face,whilst my dog was sat by my wife(2nd act of negligence for her own health&safety.)

she came home and reported it to customer complaint in floods of tears (the postie is an ex rugby player so quite intimidating ).

i think because she was trying to explain the whole situation whilst crying. we got a letter apologizing about something else.

she has since complained to complaints dept but didnt include witness statement.they interviewed postie who totally denied any knowledge of incident.

so they say there is a dispute in facts ,and arent willing to investigate any more .if we want to pursue we need to take legal advise.

[Ethel Street]

oh dear. but they did initially say we wasn't covered so i hope i can say thats why i got into correspondence.

 

Your insurers said you weren't covered for a liabilkity claim against you that resulted from your dog injuring someone on your property? Did they say why? Has they seen the actual letter from the postie's union making the claim?

[raydetinu]

not with standing any of the above, I hope you have now put a drop box on the inside of the letter box, to stop dog accessing the flap.

Because if it happens again you would be in deep do do!!! ( so to speak ).

[obiter dictum]

The official statistics are that since April 2012 there have been over 6,300 dog attacks on postmen and women, some leading to permanent disabling injury. On average currently around 9 postmen and women a day are attacked by dogs across the UK with over 3,300 attacks taking place between April 2013 and April 2014. Two postmen were nearly killed in savage attacks in 2007 and 2008. Many others have lost fingers and parts of limbs.

 

It is now a criminal offence if your dog attacks the postman or woman on your private property (Dangerous Dogs Act Law changed in May 2014

[gotham]

this was the run of the mill phone calls.i got through to them and a lady took details and said she pass on to legal team.

about ten minutes later a lady who then said she was from the solicitors acting on behalf of insurance.

listened to story and said we wasn't covered.didnt say why..

we've since written to insurance,still haven't heard from them yet.. sent letter from posties sollicitors.

[gotham]

we are sorry for what has happened and understand the troubles of posties.my dog was contained ,and was behind a door..it had 9 clear glass panels it was 3pm so wasnt dark.

she would have seen our dog if she was paying attention.

this happened i november last year before new legislation.

[gotham]

we dont have a letter box into the house at all now.we hadn,t in our other houses just an external box.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I'm sorry but postie was doing his/her job by pushing letters all the way through. If they hadn't of pushed letters all the way through, you would be annoyed as you mail could be blowing down the street and perhaps trying to sue THEM for breach of DPA. Or the postie could have just refused to deliver your mail for fear of being bitten. Which I guess would have annoyed you too. The postie is completely right to pursue a claim against you as you failed to control your dog and they have been injured. As for insurance, I hope yours do end up supporting you but it sounds like they wont be.

[Robson689]

I'm sorry but postie was doing his/her job by pushing letters all the way through. If they hadn't of pushed letters all the way through, you would be annoyed as you mail could be blowing down the street and perhaps trying to sue THEM for breach of DPA. Or the postie could have just refused to deliver your mail for fear of being bitten. Which I guess would have annoyed you too. The postie is completely right to pursue a claim against you as you failed to control your dog and they have been injured. As for insurance, I hope yours do end up supporting you but it sounds like they wont be.

 

You don't have to stick your fingers through the hole to put the letters in properly.