Failed PIP medical.

[Lilly_Monroe]

Well after waiting 12 months I failed my PIP medical.

 

NO account has been given to my mental health state (which is why I am in the ESA support group) the only reference they make is that I CAN relate face to face with a person, outside of that there is NO other mention.

 

I scored a big fat 0 on every count (I am totally gutted).

I expect there are no other avenues open to me I am truly, truly distraught.

 

The examiner noted I showed no signs of anxiety, (I was in bits) I could not find things in my bag, I had taken in the wrong medication packets, there was torn tissue on the floor from my nerves, I could not remember things (I was in pieces inside) what do they want you to do/show! I even went all the way home with my heel not in my shoes, I was so distressed I did not notice until I got home.

They have also ignored a letter from my CPN - they make me feel as if I am living a lie.

12 months anguish to be disbelieved.

[essexmat]

I am so sorry to hear this and unfortunately this is how people are being treated these days. Unless you literally have no arms or legs or are actually mentally handicapped they take NO CONSIDERATION about people's mental state and how they have been suffering for years. I also have a history of anxiety, depression and OCD and have been on medication close to ten years and some days I cannot function at all. I have ATOS to come as I am on ESA(AP) at the moment and to tell you the truth it is a waste of time, I KNOW I will get ZERO points so not even going to worry about it - as I can open my mouth and speak I am obviously ready for work!

 

Another case of this dispicable government taking away benefits from people that genuinely need them. Hopefully, although I am not sure what difference it will make, they are dismissed come May 2015.

 

Presumably you WILL be challenging this?

 

Take care

[Lilly_Monroe]

I am so sorry to hear this and unfortunately this is how people are being treated these days. Unless you literally have no arms or legs or are actually mentally handicapped they take NO CONSIDERATION about people's mental state and how they have been suffering for years. I also have a history of anxiety, depression and OCD and have been on medication close to ten years and some days I cannot function at all. I have ATOS to come as I am on ESA(AP) at the moment and to tell you the truth it is a waste of time, I KNOW I will get ZERO points so not even going to worry about it - as I can open my mouth and speak I am obviously ready for work!

 

Another case of this dispicable government taking away benefits from people that genuinely need them. Hopefully, although I am not sure what difference it will make, they are dismissed come May 2015.

 

Presumably you WILL be challenging this?

 

Take care

 

I rang to ask for a 'mandatory reconsideration' (or whatever they call it) but I hold out NO hope as I scored zilch.

I was told they will contact me (ring me) within 5 days, they will try twice after that (if you miss them) tough cheese (I must add, I was told) they SHOULD try twice!!

 

Just because I can talk and string some words together and administer my own medication I am 'apparently' seen as mentally fit/well.

Never mind outside my medicals and CPN sessions I live a recluses life - they are welcome to come and sit outside my house for a year, and flag the amount of times I go out..

Getting to that medical made me realise how limited and how flustered I get when out of my 'tiny' little comfort zone.

 

There is NO way a person can judge if you are mentally fit in 45 minutes, sadly I did not play the game I find it hard to admit to all of my failures owing to my illness.

The fact that I have been seeing my CPN for 18 months should give them some indication, you are not given valuable NH time if you are faking it.

 

I wish you well with your medical, I always try to think positive, but I know what you mean.

[Nystagmite]

Did your evidene contain information in relation to the descriptors? A letter stating you have depression won't be enough. They don't care about the diagnosis. It also doesn't matter whether you see anybody or not. I wasn't seeing anybody when I renewed my DLA; but I still managed to get it. But I had plenty of evidence to back up my claim.

[Lilly_Monroe]

Did your evidene contain information in relation to the descriptors? A letter stating you have depression won't be enough. They don't care about the diagnosis.

 

They had info from Doc and letter from CPN I have NO idea how they used those - she asked my all the questions relating to the descriptors, and added them up to zero.

I know they don't care about the diagnosis, but its not my fault or anyone ease's that we cannot make our illness fit their criteria.

I told her my worse day scenario's but they care not - you are there on 'that day' and that's as far as they seem to look.

 

I remember saying I cannot cut veg, on the odd times I use veg I uselready cut (which is expensive) she commented she does that.

Maybe she does, but she does that from choice, not because she has to.

 

I did not go in there pretending to be brain dead - just telling it as it is.

[Nystagmite]

Doing it on your worst day is fraud. You're meant to tell them how an adverage day is. But you can mention your bad days - just don't base the form on them.

[SabreSheep]

Best thing I can advise is to get hold of a copy of the dicriptors.

 

Secondly keep a diary, record how your conditions impact on your daily living. Make sure the notes refer to the descriptors.

 

That diary is a good evidence.

 

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/

They have a great book that guides you through all processes including PIP/ESA in regards to disability

[Lilly_Monroe]

Doing it on your worst day is fraud. You're meant to tell them how an adverage day is. But you can mention your bad days - just don't base the form on them.

 

I am not a fraud, if that is what you are implying (if I was I would have passed).

I was never given the chance to go into detail, she paid more attention to my arthritis than my MH problems - which I knew would not get me any points.

[SabreSheep]

Understanding how the decriptors actually score is helpful.

Also the rules on how they must apply.

 

EG you must be able to do the descriptor "Safelty, repeatdly, in good time" etc etc

 

The disability rigths handbook gives you the information you need to challenge and appeal

[Lilly_Monroe]

Understanding how the decriptors actually score is helpful.

Also the rules on how they must apply.

 

EG you must be able to do the descriptor "Safelty, repeatdly, in good time" etc etc

 

The disability rigths handbook gives you the information you need to challenge and appeal

 

Thank you does that handbook cover MH problems.

[Lilly_Monroe]

Best thing I can advise is to get hold of a copy of the dicriptors.

 

Secondly keep a diary, record how your conditions impact on your daily living. Make sure the notes refer to the descriptors.

 

That diary is a good evidence.

 

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/

They have a great book that guides you through all processes including PIP/ESA in regards to disability

 

It says that book is £13.99 I cannot afford that.

[SabreSheep]

yes it does cover MH problems.

 

Shame as it is very useful and covers everything from jsa pip etc.

 

Wonder if your local library migth stock it or have it somewhere?

[**Margaret**]

Lilly_Monroe,

 

Or the far more finance friendly, for reconsideration of a claim to a personal independence payment;

 

https://crm.disabilityrightsuk.org/pip-guide

 

Even better, a free factsheet. Covers descriptors, a diary, and reconsideration.

 

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/personal-independence-payment-pip

 

Unlike employment n support allowance, PIP doesn't distinguish between mental health and physical problems for care needs. Does the descriptor that got you the support component impact on eating properly or personal hygiene? The descriptors talk about prompting and supervision.

 

General practitioners aren't always the best people to write reports for PIP cos they rarely see care needs on a day to day basis. You need to find out what your community psychiatric nurse wrote and get a copy of the PA4 report written by the assessor. Initially by asking nicely, but if that fails via subject access which Disability n Carers don't charge for. And remember to confirm the request for mandatory reconsideration in writing. DWP can be very good at 'losing' calls.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

 

 

 

[Lilly_Monroe]

Thanks Margaret

 

Letter already written ready to go recorded post.

I was asked about feeding, eating, washing myself all of which I can do.

I did tell her that there are days I do not get dressed or even washed, and that a lot of the time I eat sandwiches but I scored 0 on all counts.

 

I found the interview very hard, I had forgotten to take some of my stuff (the stress does that) I was looking in my bags for things I could not find (none of this was noted) I was coughing a lot due to acid reflux a stress and dietary problem, again not mentioned.

I mixed up my pills when telling her what I was on, again all ignored (she just kept saying) well done you.

 

I have what my CPN wrote, its the same letter that got me moved from the WRAG group over to support, but I expect its not coached in descriptor mode!

 

I have the PIP assessors notes, (is that what you are referring to) she is going to contact me (so the letter says) to discuss the medical with me.

 

I am one of those people who when speaking about my illness covers a lot up, I cannot help it. I DO NOT sit there moaning and groaning, at 57 I find it hard to whinge openly.

I was aware of the descriptors, but because of my illness they went clean out of my head when having the medical.

 

Because I seem not to need help, (the letter states the points are scored on how much help you need) I failed.

[Nystagmite]

I have what my CPN wrote, its the same letter that got me moved from the WRAG group over to support, but I expect its not coached in descriptor mode!

 

They're generally not. A lot of health care professionals don't know the descriptors. Many also don't know what help you need, unless it's something you'd gone to them about. For example, they may not know that you need help getting dressed, because there's probably nothing they can do and I imagine many wouldn't admit to it. But if it was something like being unable to walk, they'd probably know that.

 

The help you need has to be reasonable. You don't need to be getting the help. For example, if you sit around all day in your pyjamas because you have no motivation at all to get dressed, it would be reasonable for you to score points for that descriptor - because it's help you need.

[SabreSheep]

Another example.

 

Food prep.

 

If 51% of your meals (3 per day) are not prepped by you or at all for whatever reason related to your mental health issues, you should score points.

 

This is where a diary comes in.

 

Also to score points for the discriptor you do not have to match it every day. A majority of the time should be enough to gain the points. Normally it is these sort of points I imagine are reinstated on appeal.

[SabreSheep]

Can you carry out the activity reliably?

When working out which descriptor applies to you, the health professional must consider for each descriptor whether you can carry out the activity described:

 

• safely
  
• to an acceptable standard
  
• repeatedly
  
• in a reasonable time period.
  

If you can't, then a higher scoring descriptor should apply to you.

[SabreSheep]

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/benefits_w/benefits_sick_or_disabled_people_and_carers_ew/benefits_personal_independence_payment_e/benefits_the_pip_assessment_e/pip_activities_descriptors_and_points.htm

[Lilly_Monroe]

Another example.

 

Food prep.

 

If 51% of your meals (3 per day) are not prepped by you or at all for whatever reason related to your mental health issues, you should score points.

 

This is where a diary comes in.

 

Also to score points for the discriptor you do not have to match it every day. A majority of the time should be enough to gain the points. Normally it is these sort of points I imagine are reinstated on appeal.

 

 

Well I score well (or should have) on that because I hardly prepare food I told her I mainly live on butties, occasionally I do a slow cooker veg pasta, but it is occasionally - by that I mean 2 or 3 times a month.

I feel unless you have a illness that is visible, it does not matter what you tell them.

 

I explained I have difficulty opening things, packets etc because of my fingers the arthritis, she has written I have good strong grip. This is not so, my fingers are so swollen I drop things, all told to her.

I stopped driving accept to my local town 2 miles away to see the GP or get the bus if I need to go to the hospital. Lately even this has become difficult as changing to second gear hurts my wrist, which is dangerous as I have missed the gear change - relaid to her, but ignored.

Whilst to her they might seem trivial, to a person who lives alone they effect my life considerably.

[Lilly_Monroe]

Can you carry out the activity reliably?

When working out which descriptor applies to you, the health professional must consider for each descriptor whether you can carry out the activity described:

 

 

• safely
  
• to an acceptable standard
  
• repeatedly
  
• in a reasonable time period.
  

 

If you can't, then a higher scoring descriptor should apply to you.

 

How do they work that one out, time means nothing to me sometimes I do not even know what day of the week it is.

She never asked me about safety, even though it was on the form I filled out, as I HAVE had accidents in the kitchen.

I even went to the medical with a large bruise on my lower arm as I had fallen over a few days before.

 

Jesus its so damn mind blowing, or it would be if I had one in fully working order

[Lilly_Monroe]

Well both my CPN and Doc have refused to write me any further supporting evidence.

 

My CPN has said she has already written me one letter (which got me moved from wrag to support) this is the letter I took to my PIP medical) she said there is nothing more she can add.

She stated my MH problems what more do they require!!

My GP has said if they want evidence they can contact him.

Apparently the surgery has stopped providing supporting letters unless contacted directly - so it looks as if I will fail my mandatory reconsideration because I cannot supply further evidence.

 

What do I do now - wait to fail and go to appeal (even if I do that) I will have no further evidence.

[Nystagmite]

Has your CPN written a letter outlining the criteria you meet? Because that's all DWP / ATOS care about - not the diagnosis.

[Lilly_Monroe]

Has your CPN written a letter outlining the criteria you meet? Because that's all DWP / ATOS care about - not the diagnosis.

 

No it does not meet their criteria, but as far as my CPN is concerned she wrote a letter and that is that (I am very upset) but I understand, they are stretched to the limit - without this added hassle each time a MH patients fails a medical.

[RaeUK]

Can you, or someone you know, look at your available evidence and expand on it by referring to it? For example, your CPN has written a letter saying what is wrong with you. Obviously, that doesn't say how what is wrong with you affects you in relation to the required points. So someone needs to say that abc is wrong (refer to letter) which means that Lilly cannot manage xyz. Also by researching exactly what the CPN has said is wrong you may find alternative supporting evidence showing that it is well known that people with abc cannot perform xyz. etc.

I appreciate I may not have explained that well, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.

[Lilly_Monroe]

Can you, or someone you know, look at your available evidence and expand on it by referring to it? For example, your CPN has written a letter saying what is wrong with you. Obviously, that doesn't say how what is wrong with you affects you in relation to the required points. So someone needs to say that abc is wrong (refer to letter) which means that Lilly cannot manage xyz. Also by researching exactly what the CPN has said is wrong you may find alternative supporting evidence showing that it is well known that people with abc cannot perform xyz. etc.

I appreciate I may not have explained that well, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.

 

 

I saw my CPN today and she is going to write a letter (phew)!! we went over it all and she going to do her best.

I am so relieved and cannot believe she changed her mind...

She said she has looked at the descriptors and will give it her best shot (cannot ask for me all in all) at least I will have further supporting evidence to offer, and then see what happens.

 

What a nightmare.

 

I feel like it is sort of begging asking for these supporting letters does nothing to help the old mind get better.