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Burchell Edwards 2nd claimform for bogus House selling fees - 1st case was discontinued


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Evening

 

Not sure if this is anything anybody can advise or help with but if I don't ask I'll never know.

 

Made the huge mistake of selling my house through Burchell Edwards,

to cut a long story short my 10 year old could of done a better job!

 

It all started out ok well until I signed lol

 

I ended taking the photos and doing the write up as like I said my 10 year old...

 

They over priced my house, when the surveyor came he valued it some £10,000 less than they claimed they could sell for.

 

The penny then sunk in Id been duped into agreeing the higher selling figure to bump up their price.

 

This became more apparent when I questioned the fact,

I then had calls ignored and emails unanswered.

 

The buyer contacted me directly as luckily he really wanted my house,

we started a whole new process me and the buyer did everything Burchell had no involvement what's so ever.

 

We had moved into our new house and

 

about 2 maybe 3 months later I recieved a letter demanding payment for selling my property!

 

Shocked and angry I responded with full chapter and verse of the whole situation.

 

Their response was a county court form dropping on my door mat :-(

 

Obviously I sent in defence etc and it got to the point where a court date was issued,

4 days before the court hearing I received a letter stating they were withdrawing the claim

- that was 21.03.2014

 

The is where I get confused - I have today received another claim for exactly the same thing

 

My question is can this be done?

If so how is my best way of fighting it?

 

Many Thanks in advance of any help offered :-)

Julie

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I will try and find someone to advise. In the meantime, can you answer the following questions, please.

 

What is the date of issue of the claim form.. top right hand corner of the claim.

 

Can you let us know exactly what they are claiming for.. leaving out any personal details.

 

Do you have the previous claim information - if not, it might be worth a call to the court to get your hands on that.? Is this claim exactly what they claimed for previously ?

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Hi

 

The date of new claim is 4th November, I've kept everything from the previous claim.

 

They are claiming the fee for selling my house even though they had no involvement

and didn't even know my new address and had to do a search to find us.

 

The buyer of my old house is willing to write in a letter backing up everything I said.

 

Thanks

Julie

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Righto, well I have left a message for those who advise in this forum to look in as soon as they can. This might be later on this evening as they all have day jobs :)

 

Your timeline is as follows..

 

Issue date 4th November + 5 days for service = 8th November 2014 + 14 days to acknowledge

= 22nd November 2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 6th December 2014.

 

And can you confirm the particulars of claim are the same as the previous one..

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi there, can you post up the exact Particulars of Claim?

 

The details are crucially important in a case like this. Estate agents will often try to be appointed on an exclusive basis, which means they will get commission for any sale during the time while they are appointed. The logic is that the estate agent will not want you to sell elsewhere if he has done work advertising the property.

 

Are they pointing towards a specific clause in their T&Cs? Did you remember if you signed a piece of paper agreeing to their T&CS?

 

An estate agent brought a similar claim against someone else quite recently. You can find that person's thread in the General Legal Issues forum if you do a search.

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Hi

 

Brief details of claim:

Action in breach of contract by way of unpaid professional fee

 

They don't state any clauses.

 

A bit that makes me laugh is this:

The claimant introduced the buyer DB and the sale completed on or around the 22nd April. If they were involved in the sale at all they would know the exact date of completion surely? Also they had to do a search to find our new address.

In the new claim they state they've contacted me in numerous occasions demanding monies to be paid but make no reference to the fact they'd already tried to claim through the courts then withdrew as I refused to back down.

 

They also claim numerous letters between both parties yet the last correspondence that I recieved was a letter the sent withdrawing the claim :-(

 

Thanks for your help on this matter :-)

Julie

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The claimant introduced the buyer DB and the sale completed on or around the 22nd April.

 

 

Well from what you say, the Buyer will be providing a witness statement to scupper that statement of theirs.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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The 1st claim was put in under Connells which owns Burchell Edwards

this new claim is under Burchell Edwards, can they do this?

 

Am I best to just to acknowledge the claim and defend exactly the same way again?

 

 

But add in how they have already claimed under Connells and withdrew?

 

Thanks

Julie

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At the moment, you just need to acknowledge the claim - that way you will get the extra 14 days. So by the 22nd November, you should acknowledge.

 

Others with more experience in legal stuff will help you structure your defence in good time :)

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I always thought that once you've discontinued a claim, if you wish to litigate again in regards to the same claim, then you'd have to have special permission from the court to do so. Their actions seem vexatious to me.

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TBH, I really don't know what the protocol is regarding a discontinued claim. I too thought they had to have the permission of the court, but see what andyorch or steampowered.. or indeed others have to say. You do have plenty of time :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I assume the Particulars of Claim (POC) in post #8 are from the latest claim against you. Is that right?

 

If so, please also confirm the exact POC used on the original claim, so we can compare them exactly.

 

The buyer contacted me directly as luckily he really wanted my house,
Can you tell us how the buyer was able to contact you direct, and was it by phone, did they just knock on the door, or what.

 

When you sold to the buyer, was the sale done through a new estate agent, or was it done without an estate agent.

 

:-)

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Hi Slick132

 

 

Yes same particulars as previous claim.

 

 

The buyer knocked on my door and took my phone number.

 

 

The sale was done via the buyer and myself as if we hadn't done everything it wouldn't have happened at all. The estate agents who we brought our new property through helped and guided us, if anything they deserved the fee lol

 

 

Thanks

Julie

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The buyer knocked on my door and took my phone number.

 

 

You didn't know the buyer before he knocked on your door? In which case how did the buyer know your house was for sale? If it was because of the Burchell Edwards board outside your house they might be able to claim that they were instrumental in bringing together you and the buyer, ie that, in law, they "introduced" the buyer to you. That might be relevant to their claim depending exactly what your agreement with the Agency says.

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Hi MJ,

 

I have to say, if the buyer knocked on your door when the agent's For Sale sign was outside, then I think you probably owe the agent their commission, whether they conducted the initial negotiations or not.

 

Their For Sale sign led to the buyer contacting you and that is why they've taken the matter back to court.

 

Dealing now with the matter of whether they are ABLE to start new proceedings after stopping the first claim, can you tell us exactly what you were told by the solicitors and/or the court when the first claim was dropped/discontinued.

 

In the meantime, make sure you acknowledge the claim by the deadline as required.

 

:-)

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The important thing is to file a Defence within the relevant timelines. In your Defence you would need to set out the reasons why you feel you do not owe the money - i.e. that the agents were not involved in the sale and that you did not agree to pay them commission for a sale in which they were not involved.

 

You can also state that the new claim is an abuse of process, since a previous claim was issued and taken right up until a few days before the hearing, and that the interests of justice require this new claim to be struck out. I don't think you can rely on this being a sure-fire winner because the Claimants are actually different companies - I suspect they realised that Connells was the wrong claimant.

 

If you want to be aggressive you could file an application on form N244 asking for their claim to be struck out as an abuse of process. There would be a fee for this and no guarantee of success, so it is up to you if you want to make the application to put pressure them.

 

You are slightly battling in the dark since it seems you have very limited information about their claim. I have seen situations before where people signed a document agreeing to appoint an estate agent as an 'exclusive agent' meaning that they get their commission if the property is sold while they are appointed. This sometimes happen when people sign documents without reading them. If you happened to sign a document like this then you will be liable regardless of how the property was sold. But if there is no document like this then I don't think you should be liable. This is why it is important for you to try and get a copy of what you signed.

 

Separate from the court process you can also write to the claimant explaining that (1) they haven't made any attempt to comply with the mandatory pre-action protocol, (2) this new claim is an abuse of process since the previous claim was taken right up to a few days before the hearing, (3) if this case advances you intend to claim costs as a result of their unreasonable conduct, and (4) you require a copy of the documents on which their claim is based, which they were required to offer as part of the pre-action procedure. It would be interesting to hear their response.

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I forgot to say, the house was up for sale with Elder Twells, they had a board up at my house and the buyers sister lives round the corner.

 

The lady who came round from Burchell, rushed us to sign even taking our withdrawal up to the 'competitions' shop and hand delivering it to them.

 

We had an appointment with their mortgage guy and we couldn't make it so he completed via emails and calls, when our quote came through I had also had a quote from an independent advisor. Both quotes where from Yorkshire building society yet the Burchell quote had additional fees on and when I showed it to the independent advisor he contacted Yorkshire and they advised that no additional fees should be on the quote :-/

 

I questioned Burchell over this and they refused to talk to me about it, but from that point they ignored emails and calls from me. I had a friend go into the shop and look for my advert it wasn't even displayed, so they asked making out they'd seen it when driving past. The young man told them it was overpriced for the area! I obviously called the shop when my friend told me this and they denied all, saying they'd had no enquiries about my house. DB who eventually brought my property even said he'd asked for the details on several occasions and he really wanted to look and that's why he approached me directly.

 

Burchell when they came told me she could and would sell my house for £125 and that it should be put on at that cost. I argued and said I wanted the house to sell quickly as we'd already found one and didn't want to loose it. Burchell was adamant that she would sell it and the price we agreed was offers around £120. When the brochure was done it didn't say offers around it said £120. I was advised that they'd been printed now so couldn't change.

 

DB surveyor valued our house at £112 and he couldn't get the mortgage agreed and we needed at least £117 so we had our deposit. The sale never went through, a week or so later after advising Burchell we couldn't sell and taking off market, they removed board and took off website.

Approx 2 weeks later DB called ME and he'd managed to raise some funds and he thought our house was worth the £117 we'd asked and he wanted to go ahead and purchase, which he did.

 

Burchell did not have any involvement at all.

 

Cheers

Julie

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I see. You really need to get a copy of the document you signed if you want to clearly understand your legal position.

 

I'm slightly struggling to understand why the buyer would have asked Burchells for details about the property 'on several occasions' if they were not advertising it, and also how the buyer found out the property was for sale before he called you.

 

If the buyer found out about the property through Burchells, it will be difficult to avoid paying commission even if the buyer separately contacted you later.

 

By the way - is the claim for more or less than 10k? If the claim is less than 10k, you might as well defend and hope for the best as it will be treated as a small claim. If for more than 10k, you need to be careful as will be liable for their legal costs if you lose.

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