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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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Tenant gave notice to leave,LL served notice 21(1)(b), now tenant wants to stay


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Just to clarify - I'm the tenant here!

 

Here's the situation - we have a fixed term contract with a private landlord and we served a notice to leave, which was accepted by the landlord and their letting agents, who in turn served us with notice 21(1)(b) expiring on 30 December. We are due to move out on 10 November (the expiration date of our own notice) into a new flat .

 

However, we were just told by the new landlord that there's been a leak in the new flat, which might prevent us from moving in on 10 November - he's not sure when we could move in since some of the electrics might have been affected (the leak came from the flat above and the water went into the wall behind the storage heater/electrics cupboard/one of the bedrooms as well as on some of the carpets).

 

As far as I could find out from some online research, we now have a couple of options:

 

1) Move out on the 10th as agreed and into a hotel/temporary housing while storing most of our belongings - I assume the new landlord's insurance should pay some/all of this extra expense? We then would move into the new flat whenever it's deemed habitable (that is, the electrics have been checked and the walls/carpets dried out).

 

2) Not move out of the current flat until the new flat is ready. I understand that our own notice has merely terminated the fixed term of the existing contract but then if we don't move out then a statutory tenancy automatically begins, which would terminate on 30 December as per the notice 21(1)(b), which we have already been served. Is that right? If so, then:

- do we have to give further notice to move out after 10 November (when the fixed term expires)? This would be difficult since we don't know when the new flat would be ready for us to move into.

- would we be liable for rent until 30 December? We would definitely want to avoid this.

- is it right that the landlord would not be able to evict us/make us leave until at least 30 December?

If the above is not correct, then do we have any statutory rights to remain for any period beyond 10 November?

 

Again, there is the question of who would be liable for the extra expense but at least we wouldn't have to move twice!

 

3) Not move out of our current flat and try to find a new flat. The new landlord offered us to get out of the contract but we are not keen since it was really difficult to find this one (also see below).

 

A further difficulty is caused by my wife currently being over 8 months pregnant with our second child and our first is only 1.5 years old. We have no help/relatives around, so the original move date itself was already a big compromise (we really needed the extra space and the new flat is great). Therefore options 1 and 3 would be quite difficult and option 2 might also be messy - we really don't want to have to move +/- 2 weeks around the due date.

 

However, option 2 seems to be the only realistic one at this point (assuming we can flex the move in date with the new landlord). We already checked with our current landlord and received an immediate "no" to our request to stay a couple of weeks longer as he has plans to sell the flat, has booked flights to move in the day after we leave (he lives abroad), etc. Although we understand this, I don't see what else we could do?

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When did present T commence?

For what fixed period?

Frequency of rent due?

 

 

T cannot serve NTQ during fixed term, so it cannot terminate fixed term. It serves only as offer to surrender, for which LL can dictate terms.

If NTQ served during SPT, then it cannot be withdrawn. T ends on expiry of NTQ and LL can claim 2x daily rent as mesne profit for period of overstay.

Option1 is your best bet, since new LL cannot provide property on agreed date and should provide temp alt accom. You don't know how long new flat will take to dry out, could be weeks, so he could withdraw offer and return all monies, since no new T has been created.

You can stay beyond end of fixed term (10 Nov) but you still are reqd to serve min 1 month Notice which would expire 9 Feb (s21 is not a NTQ) but allows LL to seek possession, if valid, after expiry 30 Dec and LL can apply for cost of hearing (£280) against you.

Current LL may agree to let you stay , without charge except rent due, until 30 Dec.

 

 

You can vacate without Notice on last day of fixed term (9? Nov) but some notice of intent for LL would be courteous.

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Thank you for your reply (you've obviously noticed that I posted this elsewhere as well). As in my explanation in the other thread, we actually have an AST with no fixed term (we had a fixed term previously in the same flat) starting from 1 June and we could give a month's notice at any time (we gave notice on 11 October and ended the tenancy on 10 November). Rent was monthly.

 

If we are not able to move this weekend (most likely), then we don't want to vacate on 10 November (and don't want to get charged mesne rent) - is that likely in these circumstances?

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This is not clear, if you signed an AST, the minimum term is six months ( that it is why it is called assured, you have a secure contract for six months ), if no period is stated then that is what deemed the minimum period.

If you had another type of contract with no fixed term that would be a periodic tenancy! month by month and as such once you have given LL notice that it is it you cannot take it back, the S21 is therefore irrelevant at this stage and if you stay beyond that LL is entitled to the extra rent as said.

Your notice must also end on the day before a rent period day, with a minimum of one months notice. so from what you say would actually end on 30th November 2014! however if LL has agreed to you moving out on 10th November, so be it.

just to be clear, is there a deposit and has it been protected?

 

 

As for new flat, if you have signed a contract and paid the deposit and/or rent then a contract exists and the LL must honour that or compensate you if he cannot meet the dates, by providing alternative accommodation or financially.

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As for unavail new flat, you must mitigate your permitted expenses by seeking alt perm accom asap (2 weeks?), unless a longer term is agreed with new LL. A wet property could take 3+ months to dry out and be ready for habitation again. I doubt LL would agree to pay your costs for that length of time.

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Well, the heading of the contract says AST but we had agreed to remove the definition of a fixed period from it. We specifically agreed on giving notice on any day (not just rent day) and to pay a pro-rated amount if the rent payment day and the leaving day don't match. Yes, there is a deposit and it's protected.

 

I got some direction that the new landlord is not obligated to provide alternative accommodation because we haven't moved in yet. He's really keen to help anyway...

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As for unavail new flat, you must mitigate your permitted expenses by seeking alt perm accom asap (2 weeks?), unless a longer term is agreed with new LL. A wet property could take 3+ months to dry out and be ready for habitation again. I doubt LL would agree to pay your costs for that length of time.

 

Yeah, the advanced state of the pregnancy makes it extremely difficult to either try to find a new place or move after this weekend. Doctor said yesterday that we're crazy to be moving this weekend anyhow.

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You seem to be a bit stuck, but the situation was not exactly a surprise regarding the pregnancy! ( hope all goes well with that, avoid stress if you can).

You just have to do what's best, and see how it goes.

Good of the LL to modify contract, which I presume was all done in writing and signed where modified?

However now it would appear you will have to stay beyond your date of the 10th and negotiate something with LL.

and negotiate with new LL regarding new flat. ( have you paid deposit and first rent for that? ).

Good luck and hope they will understand the predicament you are in.

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You seem to be a bit stuck, but the situation was not exactly a surprise regarding the pregnancy! ( hope all goes well with that, avoid stress if you can).

You just have to do what's best, and see how it goes.

Good of the LL to modify contract, which I presume was all done in writing and signed where modified?

However now it would appear you will have to stay beyond your date of the 10th and negotiate something with LL.

and negotiate with new LL regarding new flat. ( have you paid deposit and first rent for that? ).

Good luck and hope they will understand the predicament you are in.

 

Thanks raydetinu. Yep, the pregnancy was not an unexpected "obstacle" and we are trying to do the best we can.

 

Actually, the contract was modified only in respect of the previous contracts - it is actually a clean AST contract starting on 1 June that specifies that we can give 1 month's notice anytime (the landlord can give 2). Still getting conflicting opinions as to whether this means I have any fixed term in the contract!

 

Yes, we paid the deposit & 1st month's rent on the new flat. Since we haven't moved in, however, I understand it's more complicated since the landlord could just dissolve the contract/give us back the money, which is not what we want (and I don't think he does either as he's told us he thinks he can get things sorted in a week). We now have been offered the option to move in this weekend as previously agreed if we accept that he has no liability for us moving in a week early, as well as on the conditions that the electrician OKs the flat on friday (tomorrow) and the dehumidifiers can be removed by saturday. I was hoping (probably naively) that I could get a bit of clarity online before getting legal advice but unfortunately this is not turning out to be the case. Between a rock and a hard place right now!

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I think the fixed term aspect of your AST has been superseded by the LL acceptance of your notice and not saying you will have to pay rent to the end, and in fact is planning to move straight back in, so not out of pocket or claim for expense. But there will be if you stay!

So as for minimising costs, suggest you move out to temp accommodation if necessary until new place ready ( hopefully new LL or insurer will pick up tab for that ).

Pregnancy not withstanding of course, the prospect of upsetting someone is going to be high!! Its a risk and I sympathise.

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I think the fixed term aspect of your AST has been superseded by the LL acceptance of your notice and not saying you will have to pay rent to the end, and in fact is planning to move straight back in, so not out of pocket or claim for expense. But there will be if you stay!

So as for minimising costs, suggest you move out to temp accommodation if necessary until new place ready ( hopefully new LL or insurer will pick up tab for that ).

Pregnancy not withstanding of course, the prospect of upsetting someone is going to be high!! Its a risk and I sympathise.

 

Thanks raydetinu, this sounds quite reasonable. If this is only a matter of a week to fix up the new flat then moving into a hotel/b&b would probably be a top option at this point. We'll have to wait till the electrician's verdict tomorrow to make a decision though - if he says it'll take longer, then we'll have to rethink...

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[QUOTE=mariner51;4643283]I would be worried about new LL saying he has no liability if you move in early.

 

Agreed. Specifically, the proposed liability release is worded as: "...we accept no liability (other than to meet the reasonable costs of the clean) and require release from any claim under the tenancy agreement or otherwise which may arise in connection with you taking possession on this accelerated basis."

 

If he receives confirmation from the electrician that the electrics are fine and is comfortable with the dehumidifier having done its job, then what else would he need release from? (the "clean" refers to the beginning of tenancy professional clean which we would have to undertake next week and which he's agreed to pay for). He also needs to move out some of his belongings out of the flat, which was originally agreed but he's now moved this to next week, so we'd have to allow the movers access to do so. He's also requested access (with advance notice) for any further repairs that might need to be undertaken as a result of the flood (which we're ok with). Other than that, I'm not sure what else is there to do for him next week. If I were a judge I'd be wondering whether he's got something to hide! :???:

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If you get OK on the electrics ( in writing and he is qualified etc.) then I think the risk would be minimal, but in your situation its one you may have to take.

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