Friend falsely accused of disappearing while on duty

[king12345]

Hi,

 

 

my friend works for a very large department store and

one day she had a very minor disagreement with a manager.

 

The very same day this manager reported to his superiors that she was coming on duty always late,

disappear for hours at times,

stool food from the counters,

refuse to be on the shop floor

and went home up to two hours early.

 

When my friend was called for an interview,

she immediately went on the offensive and said that it was all lies because of the minor disagreement.

 

She asked the store manager to check the camera to confirm that it was all false.

 

The store manager said that he knew it was all a lie but he still needed to speak to her about it to close the matter.

 

He said not to worry and everything was sorted,

but she insisted on an investigation because the false accusations had been passed to the head office and would remain in her file.

 

The store manager said that taking this further would create too much tension and it was counterproductive.

 

She then asked if a communication could be passed to the head office so to clear her name and the manager agreed.

 

Six weeks and hundreds of emails and phone calls later she still hasn't seen this communication

and her store manager has given her a strong "no, you're not entitled to see it" last time she asked.

 

I suggested she makes a complaint against the manager who made the false accusations

and sar the company for all communications

and cctv (they apparently retain them for 3 months, unusual Imo) to have hard evidence.

 

However her union rep, a co-worker said that it's best not to rock the boat

because the company is sacking people left right and centre for very minor things.

So she's scared to act in case they go after her.

 

To use her words, they have it quite easy with long breaks, mix of office and shop floor duties, flexible holidays etc.

She is scared that once she officially complaints about a manager,

they will throw the book at her and sack her at the first opportunity.

 

I shockingly learnt that this company protects manager even when they commit a crime,

I.e. one manager was not even given a warning when he physically assaulted another worker, but was only moved to another store.

 

Now, if she requests the cctv footage it will prove that it's all a lie,

but also show that they all take long breaks and go home when the later shift worker starts because there's an hour overlap.

 

She's not sure that day she took her break at all because it was very busy

and she didn't leave early for what she remembers, but she's not sure.

 

Do you think that the people in the data control department (yes, they have such thing!)

would inform her store manager if she requests cctv footage and communication about her?

 

I personally think not given the gigantic proportions of this company

and the fact that cctv are centrally controlled and downloadable from the head office.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

[BazzaS]

Hi,

 

 

my friend works for a very large department store and

one day she had a very minor disagreement with a manager.

 

The very same day this manager reported to his superiors that she was coming on duty always late,

disappear for hours at times,

stool food from the counters,

refuse to be on the shop floor

and went home up to two hours early.

 

When my friend was called for an interview,

she immediately went on the offensive and said that it was all lies because of the minor disagreement.

 

She asked the store manager to check the camera to confirm that it was all false.

 

The store manager said that he knew it was all a lie but he still needed to speak to her about it to close the matter.

 

He said not to worry and everything was sorted,

but she insisted on an investigation because the false accusations had been passed to the head office and would remain in her file.

 

The store manager said that taking this further would create too much tension and it was counterproductive.

 

She then asked if a communication could be passed to the head office so to clear her name and the manager agreed.

 

Six weeks and hundreds of emails and phone calls later she still hasn't seen this communication

and her store manager has given her a strong "no, you're not entitled to see it" last time she asked.

 

I suggested she makes a complaint against the manager who made the false accusations

and sar the company for all communications

and cctv (they apparently retain them for 3 months, unusual Imo) to have hard evidence.

 

However her union rep, a co-worker said that it's best not to rock the boat

because the company is sacking people left right and centre for very minor things.

So she's scared to act in case they go after her.

 

To use her words, they have it quite easy with long breaks, mix of office and shop floor duties, flexible holidays etc.

She is scared that once she officially complaints about a manager,

they will throw the book at her and sack her at the first opportunity.

 

I shockingly learnt that this company protects manager even when they commit a crime,

I.e. one manager was not even given a warning when he physically assaulted another worker, but was only moved to another store.

 

Now, if she requests the cctv footage it will prove that it's all a lie,

but also show that they all take long breaks and go home when the later shift worker starts because there's an hour overlap.

 

She's not sure that day she took her break at all because it was very busy

and she didn't leave early for what she remembers, but she's not sure.

 

Do you think that the people in the data control department (yes, they have such thing!)

would inform her store manager if she requests cctv footage and communication about her?

 

I personally think not given the gigantic proportions of this company

and the fact that cctv are centrally controlled and downloadable from the head office.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

How long has she worked there? (More than 2 years)?

 

She is entitled to ask for any allegations made against her to be put in writing, and for them to be properly investigated.

Has she been to a disciplinary (rather than investigatory) meeting? Has she been advised of her right to be accompanied to such?

 

Has she been asking the manager, up until now? Or HR at head office, given it is a large chain?

 

She should ask for a copy of their grievance policy, and staff handbook, if she doesn't already have these, as well as asking the Union to allow her access to advice from a full-time advisor....

 

When are they accusing her of misconduct?

Surely if it was a pattern over a protracted period the answer is "if it had been going in for as long as you say : why was no action taken earlier - this is all spite from the minor disagreement"

[sud]

Your thread made interesting reading, as a Manager in a large organisation myself I know that often there are things going on behind the scenes that staff will not be aware of - the manager that was moved to another premises may have been reprimanded and moved, however staff would of course not get to know those details.

 

Under the DPA your friend is entitled to info about herself, I think you'll find that could include camera footage but she would have to be specific about dates /times. Her union rep has probably given her good advice and not pursuing that even if it may seem a bit unfair to her.

 

As the previous person has said, there must be grievance procedures that she can consider, my advice would be to consider exactly where she has been mistreated and focus on that as the source of any grievance. It is often the case that people will make a grievance about something that cannot be substantiated and effectively it becomes one persons word against another and the likely outcome is your friend may indeed end up feeling even more alienated as a result. Grievances that are lodged that turn out to be unfounded can be looked as as malicious behaviour so your friend will want to be certain of her facts before going down that path.

 

My advice would be to do a DPA request to Head Office and then consider what she wants to do based on what she gets back. A DPA request should be confidential however as it is supposed to be all records, depending on how the company store HR data, the Manager may be asked to supply some of the information in which case they would find out. The only way to get around that would be to say she only wanted info held on head Office records I suppose. Good luck.

[SabreSheep]

Just another not to add to the above. If she is treated less favorably after lodging an official grievance, she would (if over 2 years service) be protected by victimization rules.

[king12345]

Hi, sorry if I didn't come back earlier.

She's been employed full time for the last 5 years in the same position on a permanent contract.

The allegations have been put in writing.

She's not been to a disciplinary, just an informal chat with the store manager who said he knew that they were false allegations and nothing further will be done.

Apparently doing nothing will prevent rules being enforced to the letter and make everyone 's life a misery.

She's got the grievance procedure and it's quite straight forward, contact store manager in writing, store manager investigates, head office manager and store manager make a decision.

If not happy with outcome she can then ask for an appeal which is usually dealt by another store manager and another head office manager.

What she wants is just for the store manager to write to all people who have been contacted with the allegations and explain that they were not true.

The store manager said that he's done it but he won't show her any evidence of it.

So she thinks that he's not sent any communication and now her name is on the troublemakers list.

She's in a limbo where if she doesn't do anything she will be labelled as someone taking the Mickey and if she complaint she will be victimised for rocking the boat (apology for the slang).

As said, she only wants people to know that the allegations are false.

[king12345]

Ok guys, sorry for the delay, but nothing happened since last post.

Until last Monday when my friend finally got a response to her sar.

She got the cctv footage for the day in question proving that the allegations were all false.

Also she didn't leave early that day, so she's absolutely clear of any wrongdoing.

But here comes the twist:

The email with the initial complaint has been completely changed to make it sound like the manager only complained about her being a bit slow in the shop floor.

No allegations of being late, long breaks, stealing and going home two hours early.

In her opinion they're scared that she'll report the manager to hr and he gets sacked.

I looked at the evidence and they've done a good job copying and pasting this tampered email in all correspondence between the various managers who received and replied to this email.

But there's a mistake!

In a different email, a couple of lines have been removed because they referred to the initial complaint, but my friend was copied into this email at the time and printed it.

Of course it's now disappeared from her work outlook account.

So we have proof of tampering but not for the most important email.

What can we do now ?

Is there any way to establish when a .msg outlook document was amended or created?

Just shooting in the dark, but can we request an i.t. report of this email or would they just tamper with that as well?

Please help because my friend has been treated very badly by the managers now and wants justice so they leave her alone.

Thanks

[fletch70]

You say she has proof that an email was tampered with?

Does she have a hard copy of it or a backup somewhere, without it I suspect that people will just label her a trouble maker

 

Sadly I have very little faith in employment law, the vast majority of companies have one goal and one goal only, to make increased profits for their owners (shareholders normally). Our caring government do everything in their power to make that happen

 

Without some proof I suspect that the best course of action is to drop it unless she wants to be a martyr

[Sidewinder]

As previously mentioned there really is only the option of a grievance. This could be worded in such a way that it refers directly to the assurances given by the original manager - for example "...As you will recall you stated at our meeting on [DATE] concerning this matter that you were aware that the allegation was entirely false but that you had to go through a procedure, and furthermore you assured me that you would place on record with Head Office that you were entirely blameless, however I am concerned that my name has still been blackened by what you agreed had been a baseless allegation..."

 

I do not believe that starting a campaign to uncover who has doctored emails and why will get your friend too far and will almost certainly start to draw entirely the wrong kind of attention. People do tend to cover each other and especially within management - it is also true that you may never know exactly what has gone on behind the scenes - nor are you entitled to.

 

Companies do tend to like the business to run smoothly and internal conflict is never productive or healthy, but be under no illusion that making too many waves will almost always end in tears. Keep the evidence that you have tucked away safely. There is proof that there was no wrongdoing and should the matter escalate without good reason then you have something concrete with which to respond.

 

What exactly would the desired outcome be for your friend?

[king12345]

You say she has proof that an email was tampered with?

 

Does she have a hard copy of it or a backup somewhere, without it I suspect that people will just label her a trouble maker

 

 

 

Sadly I have very little faith in employment law, the vast majority of companies have one goal and one goal only, to make increased profits for their owners (shareholders normally). Our caring government do everything in their power to make that happen

 

 

 

Without some proof I suspect that the best course of action is to drop it unless she wants to be a martyr

 

She received a number of emails that were exchanged between managers in response to the first one and in one of them there's a line that has been deleted.

But she's got a hard copy of it that she printed at the time.

Unfortunately she's got no proof of the first email, where the allegations were made, being tampered with.

But this first email was cascaded to a lot of people, so I was wondering if it could be obtained in any way..

[king12345]

As previously mentioned there really is only the option of a grievance. This could be worded in such a way that it refers directly to the assurances given by the original manager - for example "...As you will recall you stated at our meeting on [DATE] concerning this matter that you were aware that the allegation was entirely false but that you had to go through a procedure, and furthermore you assured me that you would place on record with Head Office that you were entirely blameless, however I am concerned that my name has still been blackened by what you agreed had been a baseless allegation..."

 

 

 

I do not believe that starting a campaign to uncover who has doctored emails and why will get your friend too far and will almost certainly start to draw entirely the wrong kind of attention. People do tend to cover each other and especially within management - it is also true that you may never know exactly what has gone on behind the scenes - nor are you entitled to.

 

 

 

Companies do tend to like the business to run smoothly and internal conflict is never productive or healthy, but be under no illusion that making too many waves will almost always end in tears. Keep the evidence that you have tucked away safely. There is proof that there was no wrongdoing and should the matter escalate without good reason then you have something concrete with which to respond.

 

 

 

What exactly would the desired outcome be for your friend?

 

At this point she wants to sue the company for tampering with the emails in order to protect the managers.

But I suppose she needs the original email to prove wrongdoing, unless the line deleted in the other email is sufficient to get them in trouble with the ico.

She went in this week and asked to see her staff file.

Nothing in there whatsoever about these allegations.

The hr manager told her: "you see, we kept our promise to forget about this incident. We know it was all a lie from the beginning"

So they're not taking any action against her, but her manager has been treating her differently from the others by making her stick to the rules while the others carry on with their local unofficial rules regarding breaks, leaving early etc.

[billathome65]

My two pennies as a Union rep. I think the union rep gave sound advice to drop it. ( Just my view after reading this. )

 

OK. Yes, there has been wrongdoing and that has upset your friend, but your friend has now shown all allegations to be untrue and vindictive, so no matter what is on your friends file this is easily addressed should other unsubstantiated complaints be made at a future date. What is your friend hopping to gain from now perpetuating this issue Monitory gain Suing? What is the person likely to get from putting in a grievance. If it was such a minor disagreement at the beginning, then rise above it now and move on. You say the company does everything to protect their managers hey, good look to your friend in suing which, if the original emails are in your friend's possession will be easier to do if not forensic investigations of HDD's etc. Will be required (who's going to pay for that independent service for what would be seen as a minor issue? I personally would draw a line under all of this and just move on because I cannot see the union taking this any further, except for maybe to mediate for the removal of any mark against your friend from their records.

 

If your friend is not looking to be a trouble causer as you say Id suggest you just pat your friend on their back and just congratulate on proving all innocence.

 

And as you seem to have strong connections in this matter if you work at this company and are not already a rep why not put yourself forwards at the next elections and support others at the same time.

 

Regards, Bill

Edited December 13, 2014 by billathome65

[king12345]

Hi Bill, I don't work in the same company.

She's really peed off about this modified email that started everything.

I already told her that it would be nearly impossible to get the non modified email but I wanted to check with you guys just to make sure.

I think she's upset because a lot of people received this initial email and nothing else, so they think she's taking the Mickey and stealing.

Personally I would send the cctv footage to all people concerned and let them know that there was no wrongdoing from her part, especially the alleged theft, and then drop it there.

What do you think about this last option?

[Emmzzi]

if you are suing, you need to show an actual loss, and hurt feelings count for very little.

 

And, "least said, soonest mended." I suspect she has already been quite loud enough without strting any frther correspondence to prove the manager is a liar.

 

She could much more easily just paint a target on her back....

[billathome65]

Hi Bill, I don't work in the same company.

She's really peed off about this modified email that started everything.

I already told her that it would be nearly impossible to get the non modified email but I wanted to check with you guys just to make sure.

I think she's upset because a lot of people received this initial email and nothing else, so they think she's taking the Mickey and stealing.

Personally, I would send the CCTV footage to all people concerned and let them know that there was no wrongdoing from her part, especially the alleged theft, and then drop it there.

What do you think about this last option?

 

As Emmzzi said she may as well just paint a target on her back, What loss was incured except for a bruised ego? she has proved her point, so the question should she send a copy of the CCTV. Nothing will be achieved IMHO, so I would just chalk it up as a bad experience and move on.

 

If as you say her company are getting rid of people for the smallest thing this incident may have done her a favor in away if she looks at the bigger picture Ace's up the sleeve are better than an empty hand Anyway it's here choice but in my opinion I'd just move on.

 

Don't know what others think but that's Just my view

[king12345]

I think along the same lines, but there's reasons beyond her thinking.

She thinks that if she doesn't do anything to disprove these allegations she will be a target.

But at the very least she wants every manager informed that she had done nothing wrong.

Apparently her union rep now is advising her to write to the management explaining that she's in possession of the cctv footage and they're welcome to look at it.

She's been told that if she sends a copy of it to anyone she would breach the dpa because there are other people in the footage.

So maybe my advice to send the footage to everyone was wrong, but the company sent it to her without pixeling any face.

I don't understand how this works.

[Emmzzi]

step back.

 

if she's going to implode let her get on with it. offer no more opinions.

[SabreSheep]

If you have the cctv and evidence of the accusations and investigations then hold onto it.

 

A phrase I used to use..>"put it in your top pocket"

 

If something like this happens again it then becomes a pattern and trend and is more serious

[king12345]

If you have the cctv and evidence of the accusations and investigations then hold onto it.

 

 

 

A phrase I used to use..>"put it in your top pocket"

 

 

 

If something like this happens again it then becomes a pattern and trend and is more serious

Very wise sabresheep, very wise.

Sounds like best option Imo too.

[goodatresearch]

S35 of DPA allows you to disclose the footage for civil proceedings including tribunals. Plus any way if you showed management the footage how would this be breaching DPA as they authorised and are in posession of the footage anyway.

[goodatresearch]

Oh and they've breached DPA by not editing other people out of the footage, or by not seeking their agreement.

[king12345]

S35 of DPA allows you to disclose the footage for civil proceedings including tribunals. Plus any way if you showed management the footage how would this be breaching DPA as they authorised and are in posession of the footage anyway.

I can't answer that.

The union rep said that she could land herself in big trouble if she gave copies away.

But she can show them without giving a copy.

[king12345]

Oh and they've breached DPA by not editing other people out of the footage, or by not seeking their agreement.

That would have been a nightmare!

8 hours footage mainly in a busy store with hundred of people passing through.

Is it really expected to pixeling other people faces or seek their consent?

[goodatresearch]

Yep but its their data controller that's made the mistake.

 

She wouldn't be giving them away, you'd be giving it back to management who have already had control of the footage. Your only disclosing what they've already disclosed. Employers use CCTV footage all the time during disciplinaries, you would use the same as a defence.

 

In any case the union rep is incorrect. s35(2) exempts the cctv images from the non disclosure provisions of the DPA, where they are used for the purposes of, or in connection with, legal proceedings. This includes obtaining advice and disciplinaries at work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That would have been a nightmare!

8 hours footage mainly in a busy store with hundred of people passing through.

Is it really expected to pixeling other people faces or seek their consent?

[goodatresearch]

If she really wanted to, she could follow their grievance procedure pointing out the doctored emails and the CCTV evidence. Remember any competent IT department could retrieve the original emails. She could also take it all the way to an employment tribunal however what's the point. I'd keep hold of the CCTV just in case they try this again but in all honesty I'd try and find another job. I wouldn't want to work for a firm that treated me this way

[king12345]

I don't think the it dpt would go out of their way to give her the original emails.

These are damning evidence that could potentially get someone a criminal record.