Euro Car Parks 'fine' straight to debt collector

[Stevo81]

Hi

 

I received a letter from debt collector yesterday stating it is collecting on behalf of Euro Car Parks Ltd

in relation to a contravention of overstaying the maximum period of time allowed in a Hayes retail park on 31st August.

 

 

Fine has been escalated to £130 already and

 

 

this is the first I've heard about it.

 

 

States my address with DVLA was incorrect.

 

 

I have checked with DVLA previously and know they have had my correct address since February this year.

 

 

There are no details of the contravention or CCTV snapshot.

 

 

I don't remember seeing any warning signs for maximum length of stay as this is not a car park you regularly have to pay for.

 

Any suggestions please?

 

Could I simply say I wasn't driving the car and don't know who was as it's a private company?

 

Many thanks in advance

[BankFodder]

Don't lie. You don't need to.

 

Make no admissions or denials about who was driving. It is none of their business.

 

Simply write them one letter telling them that you don't know anything about it and that you deny any liability and that you will be happy to see them in court if they want.

 

Then ignore everything unless they issue court papers.

 

Read extensively on this forum so that you understand all of the arguments.

[armadillo71]

Hi

 

I received a letter from debt collector yesterday stating it is collecting on behalf of Euro Car Parks Ltd in relation to a contravention of overstaying the maximum period of time allowed in a Hayes retail park on 31st August. Fine has been escalated to £130 already and this is the first I've heard about it. States my address with DVLA was incorrect. But I have checked with DVLA previously and know they have had my correct address since February this year. There are no details of the contravention or CCTV snapshot. I don't remember seeing any warning signs for maximum length of stay as this is not a car park you regularly have to pay for.

 

Any suggestions please?

 

Could I simply say I wasn't driving the car and don't know who was as it's a private company?

 

 

 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Is the debt collector DR+ ?

 

As above, one letter needs to be sent.

 

' As this is the first correspondence I have received regarding this matter, then as registered keeper I deny any debt or liability for any debt.

 

Please refer back to your principle.

 

Any further contact from [ debt collector ] will be treated as harassment and dealt with accordingly. '

[Stevo81]

Thanks for your replies. Would an email suffice or is a letter better?

 

Yes it is DR+ (Debt Recovery Plus). Are they notorious?

 

Any ideas why they would have got my old address from DVLA when DVLA have told me they have my new one on record?

[armadillo71]

Thanks for your replies. Would an email suffice or is a letter better?

 

Yes it is DR+ (Debt Recovery Plus). Are they notorious?

 

Any ideas why they would have got my old address from DVLA when DVLA have told me they have my new one on record?

 

Personally I prefer a real paper trail. Always sent with free proof of postage.

 

DR+ are more hilarious than notorious...

 

They have written to your new or old address?

 

When did you notify the DVLA of change of address? Was it recently?

 

And how would DR+ know your address was wrong?

[Stevo81]

DR+ have written to my new address and say they have 'utilised a tracing service' to find it.

 

I notified DVLA in February 2014 and they have confirmed this over the phone to me and have since sent out a replacement licence to my new address.

[DragonFly1967]

When it is alleged that someone parked your car and incurred the charge?

[Stevo81]

When it is alleged that someone parked your car and incurred the charge?

 

31/08/2014 was the alleged contravention

[BazzaS]

DR+ have written to my new address and say they have 'utilised a tracing service' to find it.

 

I notified DVLA in February 2014 and they have confirmed this over the phone to me and have since sent out a replacement licence to my new address.

 

 

31/08/2014 was the alleged contravention

 

Don't confuse your driving licence address with the Registered Keeper's address : the RK's address wouldn't be automatically updated when you changed your driving licence address.

 

Was the RK's address correct with DVLA (so, your current address) on 31/08/14?

If so : Did you receive a NTK?

If not : are RK+ members of the BPA?

 

There are steps (and time limits!) the parking company would have to comply with to enforce their parking charge.

If they don't follow these their "debt collectors" become "spurious invoice collectors" : and can be told "until a court decided a debt exists : do one!"

[DragonFly1967]

BazzaS. Euro Car Parks are members of the BPA AOS. As are DR+ (who also trade as Parking Collection Services)

[BazzaS]

BazzaS. Euro Car Parks are members of the BPA AOS. As are DR+ (who also trade as Parking Collection Services)

 

Excellent. Then if the RK's address was up to date with DVLA on the date of the alleged contravention, then Euro Car Parks MUST send a NTK within the correct time frame, must consider an appeal, must provide a POPLA appeal code and must have any POPLA appeal rejected before they could take it to court.

 

No court finding : able to laugh at any debt collector trying it on. "You have the same right to collect money from me without a court order as I have to nip round your home and demand £1 million: none, nada, zip, jack.

Get off my land.

Byeeee!"

[Stevo81]

Don't confuse your driving licence address with the Registered Keeper's address : the RK's address wouldn't be automatically updated when you changed your driving licence address.

 

Was the RK's address correct with DVLA (so, your current address) on 31/08/14?

If so : Did you receive a NTK?

If not : are RK+ members of the BPA?

 

There are steps (and time limits!) the parking company would have to comply with to enforce their parking charge.

If they don't follow these their "debt collectors" become "spurious invoice collectors" : and can be told "until a court decided a debt exists : do one!"

 

Unfortunately for me you have made a very good point and it may well only be my driving licence address up-to-date and not the RK address. I will call the DVLA tomorrow and check but I definitely never received an NTK at the new address so unlikely it is updated. What should be my next step if this is the case?

 

What difference does it make if DR+ are members of BPA or not?

[BazzaS]

Unfortunately for me you have made a very good point and it may well only be my driving licence address up-to-date and not the RK address. I will call the DVLA tomorrow and check but I definitely never received an NTK at the new address so unlikely it is updated. What should be my next step if this is the case?

 

What difference does it make if DR+ are members of BPA or not?

 

If they aren't members of the BPA they likely won't touch court.

If they are BPA members there are hoops they'd have to jump through before they could hope to succeed at court : failure to comply would be fatal to their case making it simple to defend a case.

 

If they complied with their NTK obligations (and you didn't get the NTK through your error in not updating the details with DVLA) - you can't get them on failing to provide a NTK within the timespan permitted.

 

You can try an out of time appeal : to them, and to POPLA, but they don't have to accept them, due to them being out of time!

 

They'd still have to go to court to get an ENFORCEABLE debt : without this you can still tell the DCA to "do one"

[DragonFly1967]

If they complied with their NTK obligations (and you didn't get the NTK through your error in not updating the details with DVLA) - you can't get them on failing to provide a NTK within the timespan permitted.

 

Don't be quite so sure.

 

After all this time, I doubt that ECP will be able to prove that they sent anything. And without that proof, how can anyone be sure that anything was actually sent.

 

DR+ won't ever go anywhere near a court. If there's a debt at all, it's most certainly not to them. All they'll ever do is "recommend to their client that they commence court proceedings". Yadda, Yadda, Yawn!

[BazzaS]

Don't be quite so sure.

 

After all this time, I doubt that ECP will be able to prove that they sent anything. And without that proof, how can anyone be sure that anything was actually sent.

 

DR+ won't ever go anywhere near a court. If there's a debt at all, it's most certainly not to them. All they'll ever do is "recommend to their client that they commence court proceedings". Yadda, Yadda, Yawn!

 

It is a "triable issue".

The RK can't prove the NTK wasn't sent per requirements.

The parking company might be able to show they had requested the RK's details from DVLA.

Even without sending it by a trackable service, all the company need do is say "our routine practice is" - I'd not wish to rely on "balance of probabilities" being in my favour there.... Better to nail them on more certain grounds IF they tried to take it to court.....

[armadillo71]

Do as post #3 for now.

 

 

Then see what or if, and from whom you get something in the post next.

 

 

The next letter you get will decide the best course of action.

[Stevo81]

Do as post #3 for now.

 

Ok thanks for the guidance. I will follow your advice and still send the one letter regardless of whether DVLA have the correct RK address for me (but will also change my RK address while I'm at it).

 

So I should just wait and see what reply I get and from whom right?

[Stevo81]

I am a bit concerned about this ending in a CCJ as I need to remortgage next year which this could potentially affect.

 

Any thoughts?

[SabreSheep]

dont worry about ccj, you have to be taken to court and lose first.

 

Ignore all until N1 lands on your doormat, then return for others to help draft a defense

[BazzaS]

I am a bit concerned about this ending in a CCJ as I need to remortgage next year which this could potentially affect.

 

Any thoughts?

 

A CCJ is a long way off.

For a start they'd have to take it to court, and you'd have to loose.

 

Then, for the CCJ to be registered, you'd have to not settle it.

So : if (& it is a big IF) you lost in court, you'd pay it straight away.

 

I think you are crossing bridges you haven't come to, likely would never come to, and would have better means of getting across!

[armadillo71]

I am a bit concerned about this ending in a CCJ as I need to remortgage next year which this could potentially affect.

 

Any thoughts?

 

You have had my advice on what to do next.

[Stevo81]

Ok thanks guys that has made me feel much better

[ericsbrother]

DR+ are going to do nothing and ECP break the law regarding the wording on thier demands so it would be very unlikely that you will hear any more from them. DR+ are paid to send out letters and that is all they do. the content of these letters try and kid you into thinking that they have powers they dont so just file them for a year then bin them.

[Stevo81]

Hi Everyone

 

 

Having sent a letter to DRP with the exact words as directed by armadillo71 in post 3 (thanks again btw), I've had a second letter today from DRP. It completely ignores the letter I sent making no reference to it at all (assuming they received it). Instead it states:

 

 

'Notice of intended court action..........To prevent this case being passed to the creditor's solicitor to commence court proceedings, you must pay the full amount of £130 by 28/11/2014........If you are liable for this charge and do not pay the full amount by 28/11/2014.....we will pass your file to the creditor's solicitor with a recommendation to commence court action'

 

 

Just to clarify from earlier posts - my registered keepers address as held by the DVLA was incorrect at the time and this is why I never received the original fine from Euro Car Parks (ie. I was in the wrong here). Also I have been back to the car park and there are a fair amount of small signs around stating that maximum stay is 3 hours.

 

 

What should I do now as am a bit worried now with the second letter? Could I still win my case even though I was in the wrong as above?

[armadillo71]

DR+ can do nothing.

 

 

They have ignored your letter to them, so now ignore them...

 

 

And despite their claim to 'refer to the creditor's solicitor' , you will now probably receive a letter from Zenith.

 

 

Ignore them as well, as they are just DR+ with different socks on....