AK/Judge & Priestley - claimform - old MBNA card 'debt'

[All out]

Hi Out of the Red, I know I am gate crashing your post but I want to let you know what has just happened with MBNA. I was in the process of drafting my next communication to MBNA when I got this from MBNA today. Basically, they sent me exactly what they did before but this time have said:

 

"Sorry we have not been able to provide a copy of the sign agreement but we hope that what we have provided will meet your purposes."

 

I don't know what to read into this. Either, they are saying they do not have it or they are saying they can not be bother to look for it!!

Edited February 25, 2009 by All out
grammar

[bazaar]

Well youre both roughly at the same stage, they havent got an agreement that they can enforce.

If you offer to pay them at this stage, then you leave yourself open for them to say you acknowledge the debt.

42Man's letters put the account into dispute. It also states that you do not acknowledge the debt. You cant until they provide the evidence that you signed for this 'agreement'

Have you got statements to hand to see if theyve added charges to the account throughout its history?

I ask because, if you really want to make an offer, you really should know what theyve been up to. IE, you charged me £XXXX. so I now offer £x.

 

Having said all this, the fact remains that they havent produced an executed agreement, its up to you individually how you want to go. So it may be wise to start your own threads, so people can follow them, ask loads of questions, you'll get help

[All out]

Getting really confused now. I have a thread going myself. So far I have been advised to make an f&f offer of 3p in the £, dispute, and CPR request. Is there a definative way to go? There just seems to be alot of views and I do not know which is best. I know it is not going to be easy but I am really just looking for MBNA to go away?

[bazaar]

Getting really confused now. I have a thread going myself. So far I have been advised to make an f&f offer of 3p in the £, dispute, and CPR request. Is there a definative way to go? There just seems to be alot of views and I do not know which is best. I know it is not going to be easy but I am really just looking for MBNA to go away?

 

They wont go away until you finally get to court and they either win with an executed agreement or they lose because they dont have. ( I know this is simplifying things).

What do you want to happen with this, from your point of view.?? You'll get loads of advice to do this and that, but there are legal ways of doing things. Albeit, a judge will eventually decide the outcome, its how you go about getting there.

IMO, getting there by doing everything in your power to get sight of a valid agreement without you acknowledging the debt, BEFORE even getting to the court steps, would be my goal.

But you may want to try another way, please try to take a little time and figure out what you need to get this to go away, then you can focus on that avenue.

No one way works for everyone,

[All out]

Thanks for this. I liked the idea of challenging them directly and making a f&F offer but I think I agree with you. I would rather spend as much time trying to make sure they absolutely do not have an executable agreement. What I am confused about is the debt acknowledgement issue. Surely, I have already acknowledged it by writing to them and asking them for a copy of an executed agreement.

 

I guess what you saying confirms my favoured approach which is to dispute and then do SAR, then do CPR. I just don't know how much effort to put into this if in the recent communication they are apologise for not having an agreement or not wanting to put the effort in to find it? I have put the letter in my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/184504-all-out-mbna.html

 

Edited February 25, 2009 by All out

[bazaar]

OK will have a look at your thread, but basically, theyve admitted not having an agreement, so the next move from them is to issue a claim and hope you dont defend it.

When you defend it stating that they havent provided an agreement that should be that.

IMHO, I cant see the point of going for an SAR, because you dont want to claim the charges from them and pay the remainder if any.

You would get the statements by making a CPR request IF they put a claim in. This way you save £10, also, you havent really acknowledged anything, if you get my drift.

[Seriously Annoyed]

hi, what's a CPR and is there a template.

 

Thanks

[All out]

Have a look at this thread

 

why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement

[out_of_the_red]

Thanks everyone for your updates.

 

I sent my dispute letters to RMA and MBNA. I received a phonecall on Monday from RMA which I responded with "I do not discuss financial matters over the phone please write to me" and they said they had, see letter above. They also called yesterday on my mobile and I did not answer as I recognised the number and they left a message on my home phone asking me to call.

 

They would have received my dispute letter today and I've had no phonecalls.

 

Now to see what MBNA comes up with

[charliebubs]

I don't want to dispute what bazaar says, but I do have a different opinion about acknowledging the debt.

 

If you look at the Rankine case one of the main failings they had was that they were trying to dispute that the debts existed and the judge didn't like that (hence they lost).

 

I think the best course of action is to acknowledge the debt, but to dispute the enforceability of the debt. Otherwise the judge may come down on moral ground i.e. you've had the money and spent it and enjoyed the benefits of it, and now you have to pay it back

 

If you research the statutes so that you know which sections you are relying on you will be better prepared in court (if it comes to that) to stand up and explain why you don't feel the debt is enforceable. JMO

[out_of_the_red]

Yes I think you are correct and this is certainly the basis I am working. I'm not saying that I don't think the debt exists but just trying to argue that unless they have a correctly completed CCA they can not enforce that debt.

 

I had another call today from RMA which I answered and the person on the phone asked me to answer security questions which I refused to do because I stated the account was now in dispute and should have been passed back to MBNA. They wouldn't confirm that they had received my letter as I wouldn't answer the security questions so I politely said "Ok, thank you, goodbye"

 

If they call again should I write to them asking them to stop harrassing me? Have to say they are never rude or pushy on the phone

 

I've had yet another call from RMA this morning. They would have received my letter advising them that the account is in dispute by now

 

Can someone advise what I need to send them now as I'm assuming they are in breach of the law by continuing to call me when the account is in dispute with MBNA

[cerberusalert]

Send them this;

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under The Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Section 40 of the act provides that a person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Yours

 

**Edit to suit**

 

Remember, don’t sign the letter.

[out_of_the_red]

Hi all,

 

Well I CCA'd MBNA to which they should have responded by 31st January and didn't until the 11th February with a nonsensical piece of rubbish. Waited another three weeks and the first DCA call and sent account in dispute letter to MBNA and RMA.

 

I've since had daily calls and texts from RMA which I dealt with by refusing to go through security checks, the one time I did the woman on the other end of the phone asked me "What about your moral obligations?".......PMSL!!

 

Now today I open the post and I'm greeted by this letter in a handwritten envelope with no postmark (tricky sods) but Royal Mail's orange barcode thing which I'm guessing would give details of processing etc.

 

Anyway, what do you all make of this letter and the fact that it's been back dated to 27th February....I could walk to Preston in less time than the apparent 7 days this took to arrive.

 

Also note it says I will receive no further calls from RMA, what about the ones I've had everyday since the date they cite on this letter?? If you're going to lie at least be clever enough to stick with your lie!

 

[Alphageek]

It means they've given up and passed your account back to MBNA.

 

"We can assure your account with us has now been put on hold" - I am pretty certain you don't have an account with these muppets, so I'd send them a DPA s10 notice to stop processing your data and make them confirm they have deleted it from their system.

[out_of_the_red]

Really?? So soon.....not that I'm complaining of course!!

 

Would you mind posting that letter for me or telling me where I can find it, would like to have all angles covered. Funnily enough I sent them a harrassment letter yesterday which they should have received today

 

Is this any possible indication that there may in fact by no CCA?

 

And guess what.....another phonecall this morning!! I actually asked why I was being called following this letter and after speaking to someone else said it would be handed back to MBNA. Just have to wait and see now

[Alphageek]

Their stupid systems just schedule calls x number of days in advance. They will stop eventually.

[out_of_the_red]

Thanks for the reassurance......fortunately I've gone past stressed into annoyance which is far better for my state of mind....LOL!!

[out_of_the_red]

Hi all,

 

MBNA finally decided to send a response to my CCA request.

 

The letter they sent is dated 6th March but envelope is franked 16th March so will keep that just in case.

 

They sent the details on two pages and strangely the ref number on the signed copy of the application form is in totally different writing to the writing on the T&C's page and is also not on the shaded paper that the application is.

 

Could someone please take a look at this and give me their opinion on where to go now. I have so far missed two minimum payments and despite sending an account in dispute letter they have continued to add charges.

 

Also strangely I received a phonecall from RMA today advising me they have handed the debt back to MBNA and will not contact me again

 

TIA!!

[bazaar]

Well, clearly its an application form, so does not constitute your 'executed agreement'.

The terms and conds are not showing any relationship to the application also.

Also, I'd be interested in the small ident number on T&C's. IE, what date is specific to these.

[out_of_the_red]

Could you tell me what the ident code is please? Everything showing on my paper is what's shown above

[mustang67]

Hi there ,think that the indent numbers are the ones in the bottom left hand corner of T&Cs ie LA-8-97-121-N when did you take card out? The 8-97 could refer to August 1997 .

[out_of_the_red]

It was September 1997

[mustang67]

Clearly an application form as it states, not even showing your credit limit,

If you go to 'All MBNA caggers fight against MBNAs underhand tactics" There are plenty of useful threads on there:-)

[out_of_the_red]

Thank you, would like to know for definite whether this enforceable or not and where to go from here

[mustang67]

Thanks,do not know how to put a clickable link to that thread ,but you should find it easy enough,there is plenty of info there and someone with more knowledge should be able to advise you ,having same trouble with MBNA as well.Cheers:-)