Mother’s Estate and Reluctant Eldest Brother

[giraffes]

Hi, I’m giraffes and you may remember me from a post I made back in 2011, when my GPs wrongly took me off their patient list. I got nowhere, but spent over £600 in disbursements.

Despite that, here I go again…

This time my problem is similar to that of davey1309 (28th July 2014)

whose brother hijacked his inheritance.

 

My mother became mentally incapable due to dementia about 1998. My eldest brother (“EB”) obtained power of attorney to conduct Mam’s affairs. I have another older brother, “OB”.

 

Mum died in January 2014, leaving no will. EB assumed responsibility for making her funeral arrangements, and did a bit of “tidying up” of her affairs. He did not apply for letters of administration because the value of the estate was (apparently) comparatively small.

 

I told EB Mum did not want to be put in the same grave as her husband; our father (“Pop”), despite which, EB interred Mum’s remains there anyway. When EB sought the consent of OB and me to place a tombstone for Mum, I made my consent conditional upon his inscribing it additionally to mark Pop’s burial in the same place. EB abandoned the placing of any tombstone and later wrote me that I had withheld my consent to a tombstone for Mum. In addition, although OB and I had consented to his obtaining a transfer of a relatively small sum of money that he had said he would share out, he never mentioned it again and left it where it was.

 

By August 2014, there was still no marker on the grave, so I wrote to the Probate Registry to ask if I could be granted letters of administration over the right to erect a tombstone and the aforesaid small sum to finance the project. The Probate Office’s arm’s length reply was very sniffy, so I took it to be a refusal, and applied for and was granted the administration of the whole of Mum’s estate.

 

That obviously comes with responsibilities, which included answering to the Department for Work and Pensions (“DWP”) in the matter of the amounts, in life-changing proportions, that EB had already distributed to OB, me and himself. The DWP wanted to know where all that money came from. EB had merely told me it was “the residue of Mum’s unused pension”. The DWP told me that if I did not disclose where the money had been kept, they would treat it as if it had been fraudulently secreted, instead of being declared, whenever Mum had applied for means tested benefits. They would deem the estate in debt to them on that basis. They have since decided that is the case. In the meantime, I have written several times to EB but he has been extremely reluctant to cooperate in the supply of relevant information.

 

In the course of that correspondence, EB has disclosed a number of assets, which, however, he had not mentioned in the preceding months. He had kept back a “contingency fund for unexpected debts”, but had written me he was sure nothing was left owing after he had “tidied up”. He had also retained a fund “for the tombstone”, but still had access to the small sum he had promised to distribute but had abandoned. He has now offered to transfer those funds - again of considerable proportions - into the administrator account I opened, but describes them as “the residue of Mum’s pension” - a description he is using for the second time. The accounting he cobbled together for this money is nonsensical, and bereft of a single original supporting document. While claiming it is a transfer of all the money left in the account, he refuses to turn over the pass book to me. At the very least, it is plain that when EB sent me money and stated it was “1/3 of Mum’s unused pension”, his subsequent words show that was not true. Finally, he has also revealed the existence of a life insurance policy, but he is keeping the policy documents.

 

I have also made enquiries of third parties. My mother’s pension had been paid into a high end credit card account in EB’s name. EB was fairly frugal in his spending on Mum’s needs (she was “locked in” by her dementia), so over the past 16 years, he was in a position to invest and re-invest the balance remaining from the payment of her State Pension and Pension Credit.

 

When I tried to obtain my mother’s credit report, I was asked questions for security purposes that centred on the identity of certain financial transactions including a newly taken-out mortgage. Naturally, I could not answer the questions so I could not obtain the report, but I am suspicious that these transactions have been made in her name.

 

Can anybody please tell me, what are my powers as the estate administrator, can I take my brother to court on the basis of a suspicion that he is withholding estate assets from me and OB, what is the class of the action, and what is the law that applies?

[CrappoMan]

If you are in possession of a grant of representation and are the sole holder, you need to be forceful. Write to all concerned and DEMAND (yes demand) that they turn over all financial documents/effects/posessions that belong to the estate. If they refuse, go to the police. There are strict rules regarding the administration of estates, breaking many of them is an offence.

 

Regarding the credit file, write to the CRA's enclosing a copy of the death cert and letters of administration, again DEMANDING that they supply you with a copy.

[Mr.P]

It may also be worthwhile contacting the Office of the Public Guardian - They may suggest you go to the police if they can not offer any guidance themselves.

[giraffes]

Giraffes replies to say: EB has always been dominating, with a fierce temper and a black belt in karate. Quite frankly, I am afraid of him. Because of that, I need to know the exact law that applies so that I can write to him with confidence. I love the sound of police action, but first, can anyone point me to the right page of the legal dictionary?

[CrappoMan]

I'm not sure of the exact law, but it is probably contained in the Administration of Estates Act 1925.

Contacting the Office of The Public Guardian is a good idea, to get their take on the situation.

Your letter to EB should simply say:

 

As the sole holder of the grant of representation/letter of administration/grant of probate (choose as appropriate), and the only person legally entitled to administer the late xxxx's estate, I require the following to be returned to me:

 

(list of stuff you want)

 

Failure to comply with this request will result in the reporting of your actions to the police, in line with the Administration of Estates Act 1925.

[giraffes]

Giraffes replies to say:

 

Thank you ever so, CrappoMan (I hope I got that right).

 

EB has sent me a paper from 1999 suggesting that he did not obtain Power of Attorney because by that time Mother was already mentally disabled. He has simply been receiving Mum's pension under his name. This is getting serious. Once I have boned up on the said Act I will write as you suggest. You have been extremely helpful. Thank you, again.

 

But if anybody else wants a punt at it, please tell me what you think. Knowledge is power. Thanks.

[steampowered]

The legislation you are looking for is http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/15-16/23/section/25. This allows you to ask the court to require the personal representative to give a full inventory and account of the estate.

 

The alternative approach would be to apply for an order that he is removed and replaced as personal representative of the deceased. This would enable you to obtain the bank statements and so on without his consent. This is provided for under section 50 of the Administration of Justice Act 1985 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/61/section/50) and the procedure is covered by Part 57.13 of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998 (see http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part57#57.13).

 

You should make the point that you do not need to prove any wrongdoing to succeed in the above applications. You should also point out that, given that court proceedings would only become necessary due to his failure to provide information, if the applications are successful he would end up having to pay your legal costs ... but that this can be avoided if he will properly communicate with you and confirm that he will provide the documents you have requested.

 

It is all a bit sensitive since it sounds like your mum had significant assets yet was also claiming means-tested benefits. If this turns out to be the case, the estate may need to repay DWP.

[CrappoMan]

The legislation you are looking for is http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/15-16/23/section/25. This allows you to ask the court to require the personal representative to give a full inventory and account of the estate.

The problem is, once OP obtained the grant/letters of representation, THEY are now the personal representative, with all the responsibilites, but which they can't fulfill.

I had a quick look at the legislation, but couldn't find anything which covers PREVIOUS PR's, which is why I suggested going to the police, to get them to retrieve the info from EB.

The OP doesn't need to go to court to get info from financial institutions, e.g: the bank. If they have the grant/letters then they can just write to the bank and demand the info, and also tell the institutions that the OP is the one they should be communicating with, not EB.

[giraffes]

Giraffes replies to say:

 

Thanks, folks, for your interest.

 

As it happens, the bank in which EB received my mother's pension payments under his own name do not want to play. They have refused me info on the grounds that EB's account is protected under the DPA. They suggest the obvious - that I ask EB for consent to make enquiries, but I have made it plain that that is a game he will not play. I have replied that the DPA has no application to the data of deceased persons, and that I function as the family representative in a purely domestic setting - to which the DPA also has no application. In simple terms, the whole world and his dog has shown the greatest reluctance to cooperate with me. Apparently being the eldest brother takes precedence over a grant of letters of administration.

 

EB has today replied to refuse to sign as a co-signatory to a claim on a life insurance where Mother was the insured. Right now, I feel utterly sickened by such a display of self serving, and it does not make me feel better that he is cutting off his own nose to spite my face. I can't wait to hand this poisoned chalice over to the boys in blue, but I will act with all due caution, not wishing to over-egg the pudding or use a sledge-hammer to crack what might be a self-opening nut.

[CrappoMan]

Do you have the grant of probate/representation, granted by your local probate registry office ? Is it in your sole name ?

 

If so, take a copy into your local bank branch and TELL them what you have. If you need to, ask to speak to the manager, and put the grant infront of his face and TELL him that he MUST comply with your wishes. Once they know you hold the grant all correspondence MUST be with you.

 

If you have the grant, then EB has no standing in the estates affairs.

 

This is part of the letter I sent to one financial institution who were being obstructive when my father died:

Please find attached Grant of Representation confirming that I am authorised to act on behalf of the estate of the late Mr XXX, his death certificate has previously been sent to you.

 

All further correspondence regarding the late Mr XXX’s accounts should be addressed to me. After inspecting/copying, please return the grant to the address at the top of this letter.

 

As the holder of the Grant of Representation I require you to pay forthwith the balance of this account via bank transfer into the following account:

 

P.S: As certified copies of the grant cost money to obtain, always send an original copy, but ask for it to be returned.

[steampowered]

A grant of representation won't give you access to information about an account in EB's name. EB is not the deceased person. If you want to get that you will either need EB's consent or you will need a court order. Or, you will need to prove where the pension payments were made by other means.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm just wondering why EB has to sign for the policy. Do you need his help or can you act alone as administrator of the estate?

 

With the pension, could you ask the people who paid them to confirm which account they went to?

 

HB

[CrappoMan]

I missed the bit about it being in EB's name.

 

Still, the OP needs to use the grant to get as much information on his mothers affairs as possible, and to stop EB having access to the same info/accounts. Information including which account his mothers money was paid into.

 

As he can't get access to accounts in EB's name, once he has info which points to EB's accounts, he can, and should, take it to court.

[giraffes]

giraffes (OP) replies to say:

 

Thank you, all, for your answers, which have improved my confidence in the difficulties I face.

 

So that the place I have arrived at will be transparent, I would like to clarify certain aspects as follows:

 

In August 2014, some 7 months after Mum passed, I applied for and was granted letters of administration in my sole name by the local Probate Registry.

 

During the correspondence with EB about Mum’s estate, he alluded to a payment to his solicitor in 1999 in respect to Enduring Powers of Attorney. I replied to say that his EPA was probably unlawful on two grounds. First, the date coincided with a declaration of Mum’s incompetence, and then, EB had not complied with the pre-requisite of notifying all his brothers of the intended registration. EB promptly sent me a copy of the actual bill he paid to the solicitor. It relates only to advice taken by EB about beginning EPA. It suggests, too, that EB did not proceed any further, upon being advised by his solicitor that it was indeed too late for Mum to know what she would be signing. However, before I had received this clarification, I had already written to EB’s bank, making the mistake that EB had probably wanted me to make, of believing he had acted with EPA over Mum’s pension.

 

The life insurance company requires all surviving children to sign the insurance claim form. Naturally, OB and me have signed, whereas EB has now refused twice, because he finds it objectionable that I have put his name forward as the person to answer any questions the insurance company has about the claim. I nominated him, because all I know about the policy is the one bit of information he gave me - the policy number. Though I would wish to be able to act as the named contact, EB continues to withhold from me the policy documents. His second objection is that he does not know what has “transpired” (his word) between me and the insurance company. However, I made one preliminary phone call to the company, and when I sent the claim form for EB to sign, I covered it with the same email the company had used to respond to me. Because EB took out the insurance originally, and I was not a party to those communications, any objection I made on those grounds would be more valid than his. However, I am trying to avoid falling into the trap of merely scoring points. EB also refuses to sign the claim saying I am the “de facto” contact, but I don’t know what that means, not being fluent in Latin. Finally he refuses to sign on the grounds that he does not want to be the named contact. However, it is certain that he will want his share of the pay out. I find his failure to cooperate ironic, because the proceeds of the insurance might well cover whatever deficits arose when EB was at the helm.

 

There is no reason why EB did not make a claim on this insurance when Mum died in January 2014.

 

When I applied for letters, I gave an estimated value of Mum’s estate based on the total amount EB had distributed between we three brothers, expressly, £21k. I did not declare the prospective purchase of a tombstone, because funeral expenses are exempt. I did not expect any enquiries from the Government, because the threshold for means tested benefits is £23k, to the best of my knowledge. However, it follows that an estimate that approaches so close to the threshold was likely to be questioned.

 

Following my grant of letters, the Department for Work and Pensions told me informally that if I was unable to prove the provenance of the balance I had estimated, they would deem the estate in debt to them. In writing to EB more generally about my duties as administrator, I also told him about the DWP’s enquiries. I emphasised my need of his cooperation to answer them and indeed, to defend the estate from any claim they might make. EB’s refusals to cooperate, both in that matter particularly and with my general responsibilities as the administrator, have been studious.

 

As I understand it, the Department for Work and Pensions has grounds to believe that Mum had not been entitled to Pension Credit (and, perhaps, other means-tested benefits), because, by appearances, her accumulating pension receipts had exceeded a certain maximum threshold. I believe that maximum is £23k.

 

Following her discharge from hospital into a nursing home, Mum was cared for under the NHS continuing care scheme. The nursing home manager told me that the Local Authority paid all her accommodation costs. Mum’s dementia caused her to be unaware, and she could not have asked for Pension Credit because her understanding would not have stretched that far. In addition, it is difficult to see who, around her, would have considered Mum had need of a pension top up in these circumstances. However, EB’s figures suggest he was paying merely £100 p.a. (sic) for Mum’s material needs. If anyone had asked EB if there was a better allowance available to her from her pension receipts, perhaps to obviate an unnecessary claim for an increase, his answer ought to have been very definitely yes. Alternatively, the answer might have been “No”. I suggest this because one of the security questions asked of me, when I sought access to Mum’s credit file, centred on identifying payments to a recent mortgage and a recent store card account.

 

The fact is that somebody claimed a top up to Mum’s state pension that resulted in increased receipts into the account held in EB’s name, where, however, there could not historically have been any shortage of funds. When that balance became a surplus, it ought to have been declared whenever a claim was made or rejuvenated, and at the very least, as soon as the top up began to appear to be an unlikely entitlement.

 

EB himself has produced some lengthy but wholly unreliable arithmetic that purports to show the balance of her pension account stood at some £32k at the time of her demise. He must have spent hours compiling this “account”, which he falsely prefaced to the effect that it was information I had asked for. It purports to begin in 1999 but EB had omitted the essential of a starting balance. Moreover, his figures are at best implausible and otherwise completely nonsensical, and, unsurprisingly therefore, not supported by a single original document. Ostensibly, EB had worked from original or second order documents to produce this statement. If so, there is no reason why he did not see it as expedient to send me them, because I have repeatedly asked for relevant, original documents.

 

Because of all these defects, EB’s calculations cannot function as proof of anything except an acknowledgement that Mum might have been overpaid. It is certainly not a substitute for the account it is my duty to produce, to the satisfaction of the Court if necessary.

 

Undeterred by any such a consideration, EB appeared to be offering to transfer, into the administrator account, the figure he arrived at based on this statement, expressly, about £7.5k. Naturally, I could not accept either his uncorroborated calculations, or any appearance that I had negotiated a settlement with him. I have written to tell him so and to reiterate my need of original documentation.

 

No doubt, EB hopes, perhaps validly, that it will look good in any court proceedings to have handed over money on the basis of figures I am supposed to have approved. EB has now electronically transferred this additional £7.5k.

 

If nothing else, it proves that when EB described the original £21k as “the residue of Mum’s pension” and each £7k cheque as “one third” of it, he had knowingly misinformed OB and me in writing. Furthermore, it occurs to me that EB prefers, very definitely, to transfer money, than to communicate reliable information. This naturally makes me highly suspicious. For example, though he asserts that this transfer has emptied Mum’s pension account, he continues to refuse my demands to hand over the passbook.

 

My suspicions about EB’s motives are heightened by other aspects of his conduct:

 

Why did he not claim the life insurance when Mum passed? Why is he obstructing our claim now? Why in May 2014, did he abandon, without further mention, a “dormant” pension account (about £3k) belonging to Mum, after having obtained written consent from OB and me to transfer it into his own account and share it out? Why did EB inter Mum’s ashes in the one place I had told him she abhorred for herself when she was alive? Why did he not agree with me, that, since he had interred our parents in the same grave anyway, the tombstone should be inscribed to memorialise both of them?

 

EB had proved uncooperative in all matters to do with the balance of Mum’s estate at her death. The evidence I need was also being sought by the DWP, including the value of a funeral bond document and details of other funeral costs that the bond did not cover. Incidentally, the funeral director company would not cooperate, either. I began my enquiry with them on 20 August 2014 and despite repeated chasers sent to them and their Head Office (who ignored me completely), they did not reply substantially until 23 October 2014, having claimed to be prevented from disclosing the funeral costs by the Data Protection Act. I think it more likely they were prevented by the Eldest Brother Trumps All Act. I am frankly perplexed that my grant of letters of administration, a Court issued deed, appears to count for so little.

 

In the shorter term, it might also be that EB hopes the absence of a certain quantity of money from Mum’s pension account will fox the authorities. It occurs to me that he might have tried something similar before:

 

By coincidence, I still have a pass book for a high-end building society account EB opened in my name in 1992, into which he deposited a large redundancy payment. I also have a copy of the letter I sent him, dated in early 1995, telling him that I had deposited the money into a new account in his name and advising him to collect his new pass book from the building society. I had changed my mind in the following circumstances:

 

In December 1994, a few days before Christmas, our youngest brother (YB) died in an untimely manner. The verdict was left open, but he probably took a deliberate overdose. YB had been saving for a new motorbike and so left a lot of money. EB had refused to cooperate in a family memorial for YB, and had deposited, untouched, his share of the money YB left, into the account in my name with the redundancy payment I was still holding for him. I had been so upset by this display of unspeakable greed I had promptly told him to make other arrangements.

 

Returning to the present, I had sent a copy of Mum’s death certificate and of my grant of letters to the DWP, but they relied on the Data Protection Act to refuse the sort code and account number into which they had been paying Mum’s State pension and Pension Credits. I replied that the DPA had no application to the data of deceased persons, and asked them how it would be possible to cooperate with them if they refused to cooperate with me. After a delay of 11 weeks, the DWP eventually gave me the relevant bank details, and after a further delay, the amounts of the most recent payments.

 

Again, enclosing the death certificate and a sealed copy of my probate, I communicated this information to the bank branch identified by the sortcode, explaining the circumstances. My only mistake was to state that EB had acted with EPA, as he had led me to believe. I asked the bank to cooperate with me to transfer, into my administrator account, whatever assets of Mother’s they held in the account the DWP had identified.

 

The bank has recently replied with the following riddle:

 

My mother was their customer; there is no account in her sole name; the account into which her pension was paid was not a power of attorney account; the deceased is not mentioned on that account; due to the Data Protection Act they cannot tell me who the account holder is; I need to contact the account holder directly.

 

I have replied as follows; they have seen my credentials; they are not excused under any legislation from explaining [the above riddle]; the DPA has no application to the data of deceased persons; I am seeking to settle the deceased’s affairs as a member of her close family on behalf of the family, which is a purely domestic activity to which the DPA also has no application; the legislature anticipates that those who keep their friends’ and relatives’ details in their address and account books will exercise discretion in their use of them; I seek an appointment to enable the entirely orthodox process of collecting the deceased’s assets. I await the bank's reply.

 

If anybody has any more feedback for me, I will have the greatest pleasure in reading it from you. Thank you all, again, for the assistance you have already rendered me.

[CrappoMan]

Why does the insurance policy require all surviving children to sign. The estate is claiming on the policy. The only signature required is that of the holder of the letters. I would write back to the insurers, marking your letter 'Letter Before Action', requiring them to honour the policy and telling them that you WILL take legal action if this claim is not completed.

 

The DWP were incorrect in using the DPA to refuse to discuss your's mothers pension account with you. As you hold the letters, when you speak or write to them, you hold all rights of access to information that your mother had.

 

The bank are correct in that they will not discuss with you an account in EB's name. The bank don't know why the money was paid into the account, even if it is clearly your mothers pension money from the DWP. They won't know what arrangements were agreed to regarding EB receiving the money.

 

If the following is what the bank said to you:

My mother was their customer; there is no account in her sole name. the account into which her pension was paid was not a power of attorney account;

That implies that your mother had a joint/trustee account with the bank.

 

If she did have a joint account, the surviving joint owner automatically owns the money. The money does not form part of the deceased person's estate. You would need to show a court that EB fraudulently obtained the money.

 

Don't go through the local branch, write to the banks bereavement department, they are used to actually helping people and are more clued up on what they are obliged to do. Unfortunately, you can't SAR the bank under the DPA for a deceased persons records, but the bereavement dept should supply copies of statements if you ask.

 

You need a lot more information. Concentrate on your mothers affairs, ignore your own previous dealings with EB, they are not relevant and will only cloud the issue.

 

It seems like a complicated situation, you would be better off getting some proper legal advice as EB doesn't look like he will be helping you at all, and you may need to go to court to force the issue, or maybe a strongly worded solicitors letter with threats of court action may make him realise you are serious and might prod him into action.

[giraffes]

giraffes (OP) replies to say:

 

Thank you, CrappoMan.

 

The relevant part of the bank's letter (written by an "Administration Assistant") reads as follows:

 

"Dear [giraffes] thank you for your letter regarding the estate of our late customer. I can confirm that account [sort code...account number] was not a power of attorney account and [your mother's] account is not mentioned anywhere on the account [sic]. Due to data protection we are unable to give any further information and you would need to contact the account holder directly. We have located no accounts in [your mother's] sole name."

 

I think you will agree this is rather mysterious. Without power of attorney, how could anyone arrange and how could the DWP agree for mother's pension to be paid into an account that does not mention her name, whether it is singly or jointly held? If Mum's name is not mentioned on any account, how can the bank regard her as a customer? I get the impression that low level staff are so terrified of disclosing something unauthorised, they are tripping over their own tongue trying to turn the common place into a riddle.

 

As far as court action is concerned, I believe I will only need to show that my mother's pension was received by another who had no entitlement to the beneficial interest in it, to establish grounds for it to be deemed an estate asset. The complication I fear is that EB has so co-mingled his own assets that the judgment will go to him because he appears to have been a faithful son, re-investing money to produce the best yield for both himself and his mother.

 

My involvement in the insurance policy to date has only been to phone up the company, give them the policy number and ask for claim forms. I could not answer all the security questions, one of which was the identity of the bank from which the premiums were paid. It might be, seeing that, the company requires my brothers to co-sign as a form of checking my credentials. If so, it is not going to get me further if I have to report that one of them refuses to sign. I agree, I will have to start again, by sending my letters of administration and seeking to claim individually.

 

Thank you again.

Edited November 8, 2014 by giraffes

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Have the insurance company seen the letters of admin yet? If they haven't I can see wht they might not be forthcoming on the phone.

 

HB

[Mr.P]

I think you will agree this is rather mysterious. Without power of attorney, how could anyone arrange and how could the DWP agree for mother's pension to be paid into an account that does not mention her name, whether it is singly or jointly held? If Mum's name is not mentioned on any account, how can the bank regard her as a customer? I get the impression that low level staff are so terrified of disclosing something unauthorised, they are tripping over their own tongue trying to turn the common place into a riddle.

 

Please have a look at the guidance on agents & appointees, in particular, chapter 5 - This should give you an understanding of how a third party can act without the powers of attorney when dealing with bodies such as the DWP.

 

I agree with other commentators - At some point you may well need to seek expert legal advice and possibly obtain a court order in order to obtain all the required information.

[giraffes]

giraffes (OP) replies to say:

 

Yes, point taken about notifying insurance company that I hold the letters of admin. Next on my to do list.

 

Ditto, point about applying to bank's bereavement office. I will try again if my reply to bank's routine management fails. However, the bereavement people wouldn't deal when they established that the account in question was a Platinum Card account, saying that the enquiry should be addressed to the credit card section. In their turn, that section said a state pension should not be paid into a platinum card account. Banks shouldn't give people the run around, either, but it happens...

 

I have written to the Office of the Public Guardian with what I have established so far. However, I am guided by the consensus that this is probably a matter for the Court. When I tried that with my previous problem, I faced a disaster as to costs - hence my post was entitled "Wandered into Court Costs minefield". I got out by the skin of my teeth.

 

Thanks, CrappoMan, about the steer to agents and appointees. The more I get an insight into these things, the less likely to fall foul of the legal system.

[honeybee13]

Lloyds Bank have a Platinum current account, it couldn't be that could it?

 

HB

[giraffes]

giraffes (OP) replies to say:

 

Thanks, honeybee 13. There is no doubt as to the identity of the bank and branch.

[honeybee13]

giraffes (OP) replies to say:

 

Thanks, honeybee 13. There is no doubt as to the identity of the bank and branch.

 

Hi. The point I was tryin to make was that in the event it's a Lloyds Platinum current account, it isn't a credit card.

 

HB

[giraffes]

giraffes (OP) replies to say:

 

Thanks. Sorry, I forgot to mention it's not a Lloyds bank account.

 

I have now seen Citizen's Advice Bureau worker. He concurs with everybody here I need a solicitor. Even if EB had been an appointee, Mum could not have known what that meant. CAB (not me) mentioned the f.... word. There is nothing in the whole peice that is a cause for rejoicing.

 

Any more words of wisdom, support, w.h.y. anybody?