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    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
    • I would add, many companies have done everything possible to manage and carry on in difficult Covid19 circumstances to supply customers with what they need.   Continually making excuses for delays is not what I'd want from an installer and maybe the £100 deposit is not so important.   Get this deposit back if you can but, more importantly, find a local installer recommended by family or friends to carry out the works.
    • Hello all,   I hope you can assist me, as I am quite lost and confused at the moment.   Two years ago I moved to my actual flat. Throughout this time I have been with EDF first and now EON. When I moved in, my landlord didn't quite know which one was my meter and I picked the one that I believed was mine (now reading you I know I should have done a burner test..). During this time, I have been paying my bills and submitting the numbers that I believed mine, which actually agreed with my consuming patterns.   Today, all the meters appeared with numbers, but the one next to the one that I was using, which appeared with a different flat number. As you might have guessed, none of them had my flat number. I have just made the test and it looks like that one may be mine.   Now, how should I proceed? I have been paying bills is not like I wanted to avoid paying, but clearly there has been an issue. Could you please advice me on how to proceed?   Lastly, in terms of meter serial number, the one that I was using matches my bill and I guess my neighbor bill. The additional doubt I have is, who is paying for my meter and why are they still providing me with gas if no one is paying the one that seems to be my real meter.   Many thanks!    
    • Hi J,   You must decide what's your priority - make the gym honour what you were offered originally (perhaps trying to draw you in) ................   ............... or pay what they're now demanding to get the srvice you want.   Surley it's worth a go ?
    • Well I bit the bullet and sent a really polite message asking if all was ok and requesting an update . No response so far so let’s see what happens . If and when this is received a donation will certainly follow . Thanks for responsed 
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
        • Thanks
      • 3 replies
    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Grace & anr -v- Black Horse ltd - major headache for CRAs???????


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Subject Access Request should be sent to the Original Creditor. When they sell/assign a debt very little "data" gets transferred.. eg..

 

£ value

Name and address and any contact numbers

Date of Default

Date of inception of the agreement.

 

If however, you need to obtain information relating to the time the new owner has had the debt.. eg telephone calls/other communications, then you would need to send one to the new owner as well.

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks for this folks.

It's another useful outcome for the wee guys.

:wink:

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Hi Dodgeball

I've found your posts on this topic quite helpful.

 

How best to use/what uses would you say this ruling accomplishes for debtors/defaulters?

 

Thx in advance...

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Subject Access Request should be sent to the Original Creditor. When they sell/assign a debt very little "data" gets transferred.. eg..

 

£ value

Name and address and any contact numbers

Date of Default

Date of inception of the agreement.

 

If however, you need to obtain information relating to the time the new owner has had the debt.. eg telephone calls/other communications, then you would need to send one to the new owner as well.

 

Thank you

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Hi Dodgeball

I've found your posts on this topic quite helpful.

 

How best to use/what uses would you say this ruling accomplishes for debtors/defaulters?

 

Thx in advance...

 

I think for those who have irredeemably unenforceable agreements whose credit reports were defaulted after they were accepted to be so, the marker should be removed or modified.

 

For those who accounts went into default after they claimed the agreement was IU, and then they were subsequently found to be correct, there is a strong argument that these also should be deleted.

 

To repeat what ha been said, the danger is that people will go into court and say that this judgment overturned the ruling in Mcguffick, if the person did this would have there action thrown out, a the judge went to great pains to say otherwise. That is not to say that this judgement may not be useful.

 

In McGuffic the issue was if the placing of a default marker constitutes enforcement as prescribed by the consumer credit act. If it did then it follows that placing a maker would not be allowed on an agreement which had been declared unenforceable under the act.Tthe kind of unenforceability which was examined was the one which occurs if copy agreement are not sent in good time or in the prescribed manner.

 

In Grace the enforceability examined was the kind which occurs due to breach of section 127 and this renders the agreement completely unenforceable for ever, perhaps more importantly the issue in grace was the correct recording of the default as regards the provisions of the data protection act and principles.

 

From this you can see that the issues regarding the status of the account(being unenforceable) could also be challenged as a breach of DPA using the same arguments on the temporary unenforceablity of agreements, however this was not tested in Grace.

 

I am sure that the solicitors involves will be pursuing this, unfortunately, it is generally true that we do not get to hear about lost cases, no one want to advertise their failures, which is a a shame IMO, because sometimes they can be of more use than the "wins ".

 

If someone wanted to pursue an action for damages based on the placing of a default on agreement whilst if was unenforceable under sections 77-79, there would need to be s great deal of thought given.

 

Firstly you would have to make it absolutely clear to the court that the issue is a data protection one and not a C CA related, then you would have to convince them that the placing of the unqualified marker represented a similar breach as that in the case mentioned in Grace.

 

Of course it is pointless doing any of this if you cannot claim damages, or there is some reason why you desperately need rid of the marker.

 

Claiming damages would be problematic for reasons already gone into, proving consequential losses is very difficult as illustrated in several cases, and general claims are a none starter, unfortunately.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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um..if a service contract is defaulted i.e mobile contract, tv etc and no credit agreement is signed other then accepting terms/condition of the provider. A default is placed for outstanding monies.

can this be removed as its unenforceable in courts for not signing a cca.

I have a default with VM for last outstanding bill which I still dispute.

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um..if a service contract is defaulted i.e mobile contract, tv etc and no credit agreement is signed other then accepting terms/condition of the provider. A default is placed for outstanding monies.

can this be removed as its unenforceable in courts for not signing a cca.

I have a default with VM for last outstanding bill which I still dispute.

 

Unenforceability only applies to credit agreements, service contracts are not normally covered by the CCA.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Unenforceability only applies to credit agreements, service contracts are not normally covered by the CCA.

 

I thought they were now covered by the CCA ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I thought they were now covered by the CCA ?

 

Not unless something has happened which I am unaware of CB (which is not impossible). Service agreements usually do not involve credit and phones in ,particular. as far as i know are covered by the distance selling regs.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Not unless something has happened which I am unaware of CB (which is not impossible). Service agreements usually do not involve credit and phones in ,particular. as far as i know are covered by the distance selling regs.

 

 

I will have a look through the CAG Newsletter, because I am sure I saw something that said that the "credit" part was now covered.. it could have been wishful thinking on my part.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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To Clarify, the Credit Agreements only Apply to O2, Tesco & Giffgaff etc as they have 2 accounts, one for airtime and one for the phone. The phone one is covered under a CCA agreement. The airtime still falls under utilities if i remember rightly.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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To Clarify, the Credit Agreements only Apply to O2, Tesco & Giffgaff etc as they have 2 accounts, one for airtime and one for the phone. The phone one is covered under a CCA agreement. The airtime still falls under utilities if i remember rightly.

 

Thanks for clarifying, fkofilee :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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AH yes that is if the phone is bought on credit in addition to the service hire. Most contracts are just for the service hire and the phone is "thrown in"(actually the cost is included in the hire ). But it seems that some are now separating part of the contract into the cost of the phone on credit and the hire, the credit part would of course be covered by the act. I must admit the whole phone thing is a mystery to me, i get mine from Tesco for £15

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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It only applies on the refresh contracts and others from the other companies etc. Giffgaff do finance through a 3rd party.

Im going past O2 today, Ill find out and let you know as to be fair its a while since this came up. I had Lowell write off £3000 worth of Phone Contracts because they couldnt supply the Agreements which i asked for (Not CCAs, but Utilities Agreements)

The point being is that I specifiaclly said I wont accept statements etc from them and it had to be the original agreements.

 

They soon fell over only able to supply a CCA for a Cap One account which was deffo mine :)

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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  • 4 months later...

Hi guys,

 

Is there any template letter I can use for this matter?

I want to send letters to CRA's and creditors about unenforceable debts on my credit file.

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Hi guys,

 

Is there any template letter I can use for this matter?

I want to send letters to CRA's and creditors about unenforceable debts on my credit file.

 

 

to what end?

 

 

doesn't mean they have to remove them if they are un-en

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

  1. I agree with Professor Guest that this would apply to the statutory duties under ss.77, 78 (duty to give information to the debtor), ss.76, 87, 98 (duty to serve enforcement, default and termination notices), s.97 (duty to supply settlement figure), s.103 (duty to provide termination statement), and the restrictions on enforcement imposed by ss. 90 and 92. I also agree with him that different considerations may well apply to a pre-assignment liability such as that as may be imposed under ss75, 75A.
  2. In my judgment the "duties" referred to in section 189 are therefore those statutory duties under the 1974 Act which the assignee has to perform in order to enforce his assigned rights. These duties have "passed by assignment" in the sense that it is by reason of the assignment that the assignee becomes obliged to fulfil them.

 

For completeness, the above is taken direct from the High Court ruling.

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In fairness on defaulted accounts most agreement are terminated before being sold to debt collection agencies, so the section 87 notice would have been sent by the original creditor.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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