@morrisons Parking eye Court Claim Form Received

[nohope]

My son had a court claim form arrive on friday from parkingeye

for parking in morrisons car park for over the 2 hours

(he was in there shopping with his other half and stopped in there cafe for a sandwich and coffee before they started to shop).

 

He's not received anything else from them up till this claim form.

 

It says he can respond online.

 

Can anyone advise on how to do it and what's best to put.

 

 

I no there's various ways of defending but there's so many different ones i'm getting confused through all the reading.

 

I need a simple start to finish walk through sort of thing

 

 

as neither of us have ever had to do this before

 

 

and don't want to do it all wrong and hang him at the first stage.

 

All help gratefully received.

[dx100uk]

for now

 

 

goto MCOL site

 

 

and create a username [registration]

 

 

you'll get a long number note that down.

 

 

then log in using those details

 

 

when you are in

 

 

using the details from the claimform

 

 

select AOS

 

 

and defend all.

 

 

exit MCOL

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

First thing to do is to acknowledge the claim,

either online or by returning form with the box for defend in full ticked.

 

 

This give you more time to get your defence sorted out and will force PE to pay an allocation fee.

 

 

By registering online to the Govt gateway you can keep an eye on the progress.

 

Next,

tell us the Particulars of Claim and a bit about where the event that gave rise to this claim occurred.

 

 

It will help us formulate a response as

 

 

quite often these claims can be knocked back by a little research.

 

 

Many Morrisons stores in the south were previously Safeways stores and Planning Permission allowed 3 hours parking grace.

 

 

PE cant change the planning regs so that will kill their claim for starters.

[nohope]

Thank you Dx and eric, Done the first part.

Just waiting for my son to let me know exactly how long he overstayed for then i'll be back for the next bit.

[ericsbrother]

we need the wording of the POC as well.

[nohope]

POC

claim for monies outstanding from the defendant, as registered keeper, in relation to a parking charge, issued 02/08/2014, for parking on private land in breach of the terms and conditions (the contract)

 

Parkingeye's automated number plate recognition system monitoring morrisons in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX captured vehicle XYZ entering and leaving the car park, overstaying the max stay time.

 

The signage clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park states that this is private land, is managed by parkingeye ltd and is a max stay site along with other T&C by which those who park on the sire agree to be bound.

 

In accordance with the T&C set out in the signage, the parking charge became payable.

 

Notice under the protection of freedoms act 2012 had been given under sch 4, making the keeper liable. The claim is in reference to parking charge XYZ.

 

That's everything it says.

[ericsbrother]

Ok standard fare for PE so the standard response.

 

Firstly proof of contract with LANDLORD assigning rights to PE to make claims and initiate legal action in their own name.

 

 

Also send a letter demanding to see the said contract under CPR 31.14 to PE.

 

 

If they dont send a copy either directly or as part of their evidence bundle you ask for the claim to be struck out as having no locus standi.

 

secondly, take photographs of the signage at the entrance to the car park

and measure the size of the sign,

its height above the ground and the size of the charaters in the wording.

 

 

Difference of size or font can make a difference as to whether it is an offer of a contract or just an invitation to treat.

 

 

Wording saying that the company hold no responsibility for losses etc or referring to other signs mean

that it is more likely to be an invitation to treat-a come on rather than a contract

 

 

so there can be no breach of that as it is just a first step to get your interested in what is on offer.

 

thirdly, the amount claimed does not represent any loss caused by your action,

 

 

it is a free car park owned by someone else.

 

 

Likewise it cannot be a genuine pre-estimate of loss so must be an unenforceable penalty as per Dunlop v New garage motor Co 1915.

 

Read the parking prankster's web site for a list of current decisions on similar claims

and use a couple that are relevent to show the thinking of other judges.

 

 

Dont just quote the case references but make copies of the decision as written.

Without that the judge wont take any notice.

 

Plenty of cases where it was decided that PE are agents of landlord

 

 

so cant claim in own name or they dont have LL's permission,

 

 

just an agent or occupier's which isnt worth a bean.

[nohope]

Who do i write to to get the proof of contract with landlord?

I'll try and get pictures of the sign on the entrance tomorrow. They do have big signs at both entrances which you would need to be blind to miss.

 

Thanks so far.

[ericsbrother]

you write to Parking Eye and demand it as "discovery" under CPR 31.14. If they refuse to send it to you make a complaint to the court and ask for the claim to be struck out on the basis of no contract.

[nohope]

Here's a pic of one of the signs around the carpark. These are all over the place and pretty big unfortunately.

parking sign.pdf

[ericsbrother]

You are missing the point,

all around isnt good enough,

they MUST be visible on entry to the car park

and have everything needed to form the contract on THAT sign as they are using ANPR capture.

 

that sign is a local council one so is patently not the right one

 

 

go back there and try and find the sign that PE have placed at the entrance to the private land they claim to manage.

 

 

If the sign you have photographed is in the car park then you need to look on a map for the address of the land (or Morrisons address)

and check with the Land Registry the correct address and who owns it.

 

 

Then get on to the Valuations Agency and see if ther land has been registered for business rates

with the store or separately or not at all.

 

 

If not at all, get on to the local council Council Tax dept and ask them to identify if rates are paid

and then the Planning dept to see if permission for a car park exists

and what restrictions on planning consent exist.

 

It may all seen a bit long winded

but if the car park is a separate premises

then different permissions will have to exist

and the contract with Morrisons may well have the wrong address.

 

 

If wrong address no contract!

I have beaten PE on that one before with Lidl.

[dx100uk]

that's not a PPC sign.

 

 

its a street signage

[Mr Government]

Dont forget they are trying to demonstrate breach of contract for parking on private land.

 

 

They do NOT have any photographic evidence of your vehicle 'Parked'.

 

 

If they cant prove you parked your car, they cant prove breach of contract.

 

 

Not that there was a contract in the first place.

 

 

But still, you can just say you drove around in circles for 3 hours.

 

 

If they have used the word 'Parked or Parking' on their court papers then they have sunk themselves,

 

 

if they want a contract then they must stick to the wording of it.

 

 

if they have specifically said on the court papers that breach of contract was due to parking on private land and overstaying alloted time,

 

 

then they have to provide evidence that you parked your car,

 

 

not just entered the property and then left again

[dx100uk]

what a load of twaddle!

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

no court will believe that the car was driven round in circles for 2+ hours so beat them on what is credible and that will be based upon the wording of the contract they say is in place (that it is a contract can be challened once we know the words on the sign at the entrance to the car park and any other sign inside if the wording is different), right to make legal claims and damages caused by your actions to PE.

All of the other bits will help with one or more of the above points but you must get the information that you intend to rely on so that will include photos of the signs and the copy of the contract between PE and Morrisons.

Have you sent the Discovery request letter to PE under CPR31.14 yet? It is most important that you do as you can sink their claim before they even have time to pay the allocation fee.

[nohope]

Sorry been busy. Not sure what happened with the last uploaded sign. Hopefully this will be the right one.

[nohope]

Now its uploaded twice lol.

These are the ones that they have at the entrance and scattered round the car park.

[ericsbrother]

Ok,

 

 

reading the small print there are conditions that clash with the terms set out in the main wording.

 

 

For example, the opening times, te lack of accountability by PE for anything, the chage of £75, or is it £150.

 

This cannot be a contract

as it is worded it is an invitation to treat as the main thrust about no parking after the store closes

clashes with the idea that you are contractually obliged to the same conditions outside these hours when parking is prohibited.

they cant have it both ways,

 

 

how can you breach a condition that doesnt apply when you park?

 

 

are they saying that you can park on double yellow when the store is closed as the main parking conditions no longer apply?

 

a structured argument about the small print will render the contract unenforceable as it clearly is an opening offer to what is contained in the small print.

 

Now we need to know the size of the small print and also argue that it cannot be read as being part of the rest of the sign

as the background colour is different, the font size and colour is different etc.

 

There is another example of this successful defence on the Parking prankster's web site

so have a read through taht and see what points were highlighted by the judge in that/those cases.

 

If the judge doesnt accept this argument there is still GPEOL

but before that you still need the response to your CPR31.14 request for documents

to see the contract between PE and the landowner.

 

 

You have sent this request to them by now havent you?

 

 

If not get a move on.

[nohope]

Yes sent the CPR31.14 letter recorded.

Delivered on the 13-11-14 and signed for by S MAHONEY.

 

Not had anything back from them yet and nothing uploaded to MCOL as yet.

[nohope]

Its not day 21 from parking eye receiving the CPR 31.14 and they have sent nothing to me and not added anything to the court claim.

Is there something i can do now to get it thrown out as they don't seem to be in a rush to show me any type of contract that they don't have lol

[ericsbrother]

you should write to court and say that they have failed to comply with the CPR and ask thatr the case be thrown out for non-compliance. This wont happen but PE will struggle to get their evidence admitted by a judge on the day. The paperwork usually gets bundled up so doent get considered before the date unless you spend £50 on an N244 application. Better off just writing in to court once an allocation has been made. At least that ,eams they have had to pay the allocation fee

[nohope]

Is there a perticular way to word the letter?

[ericsbrother]

you quote the claim ref and enclose a copy of the CPR request and say that they havent complied with the request so you are asking that the claim be struck out on the grounds of PE having failed to supply proof of contract they therefore have no basis for claim.

As I said, unlikely that will happen but PE will certainly have trouble introducing anything at short notice. They know what they are supposed to do and most judges dont like it when companies waste time by failing to do what should be done. When it comes to the big day you should make it abundantly clear that PE havent provided the paperwork in time and therefore you cannot offer a full defence and would seek an adjournment of at least a fortnight so you can get the paqperwork and have time to digest it. That will have to be allowed if the judge allows them to present stuff late (usually the offending person is told that the new evidence will be ignored).