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    • ok looks like that's what you need to do. but keep it bare bones for now as post 5  
    • stuff and all if there no signed agreement in the return   dx  
    • 1st again why do you keep changing things before you send them   you've added counterclaim in to our std CPR 31:14 you sent? why? this opens you up to additional costs and I hope you didnt tick counterclaim when you did AOS on mcol too?   also I notice you've  played with our std OD defence above too...   pers I would refrain from continuing to change things as they are written in the frain they are for specific reasons.   your defence is due by 4pm Monday [day 33]   here are 2 versions you will ofcourse need to adapt them to lowells para no's and remove the NOA stuff as your docs show Lowell have complied with those. but don't forget to mention other documents provided to date notably statements contain no proof they came from Lloyds but rather Lowells own internal data system    dx   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering into an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the [insert original creditor] . .  2. The defendant denies that the account exceeded the agreed overdraft limit due to overdrawing of funds but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. .  3. I refute the claimants claim is owed or payable. The amount claimed is comprised of amongst others default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, missed or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. .  4. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon. .  5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. .  6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. .  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. .  (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification.  (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.  (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. .  7. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated [xxxxxxx] namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request. .  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .  .............. or  Particulars of Claim  1.The claim is for the sum of 2470.56 in respect of monies owing pursuant to an overdraft facility under account number XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX.  2.The debt was legally assigned by Santander UK Plc to the claimant and notice has been served.   3.The Defendant has failed to repay overdrawn sums owing under the terms and conditions of the bank account.   The Claimant claims:  The sum of 2470.56 Interest pursuant to s69 of the county courticon Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00 percent from the 7/04/2015 to the date hereof 14 days is the sum of 7.58Daily interest at the rate of .54  Costs Defence  The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant once having had banking facilities with the original creditor Santander Bank. It is denied that I am indebted for any alleged balance claimed.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied.I am not aware or ever receiving any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974. The Claimant has yet to provide a copy of the Notice of Assignment its claim relies upon.   3. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Original Creditor has never served notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974  Any alleged amount claimed could only consist in the main of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbeyicon National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety.  4. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.  The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.  (a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.  (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.  (c) Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.   (d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.  (e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.  5. On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated April 2015 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.   By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  Regards  Andy    
    • Hi   Just read your thread and looked at the Docs posted in your PDF.   1. from AST to rent a Car Parking space you need to have signed a Car Parking Agreement for a Space and for visitors you should have asked permission for another space in advance with a fee to pay. (i also assume renting a parking space would be at a cost)   2. You have no signed Car Parking Agreement nor visitor space agreement.   Did you not fully read that AST before you signed it and pick up what is stated about parking and ask them about this Car Parking Agreement and if you need one to park in the car park?   You could formally complain to them about what was verbally said to you but unless you have evidence of this it may be hard to prove.   You should also contact them and ask how you go about renting a Car Parking space/costs and about the Car Parking Agreement also what the process is for a visitor car parking space/costs.   You need to be aware that they could class you and your visitor as illegally parking in there car park without consent nor a signed car parking agreement which they could use as a Breach of your Tenancy Agreement so you need to be careful in how you are approaching this and where you are parking.   Just for info on checking Manchester Life website they have numerous buildings/apartments/car parks but you may be in a building where some of the apartments are leasehold and as part of there leasehold they may have purchased a car parking space in that building. (so how do you know you are not parking in a space that someone in the building has legally purchased?)
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Santiago01

Served prison sentence. Do I have to pay DWS back?

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I feel bad coming here for help but please bare with me

 

About 20 years ago I was taken into my local DSS office where I admitted claiming benefits while I started a new business.

 

 

I was given the option of paying back the amount I owed or go to court.

I agreed, of course that I should pay this back and as I did,

I also received a summons and was sentenced to prison time.

 

At this point It felt unfair as we had agreed to pay and not face court.

 

 

However, I had taken the benefits.

 

 

I stopped paying the money because of this.

 

 

I felt the prison time served was enough.

 

 

why should I be punished twice?

 

However even though I have not been on benefits since

I am now starting to get demands for the £2000 with court action threatened.

 

I am not on benefits but am self employed,on a low low income and so am worried.

 

 

I know I can make an offer to pay weekly,

 

 

I was wondering if I can make a request to see the original paperwork to see if the court or pay option was recorded.

 

 

Also, is there a statute of limitations on such a debt after so long also.

 

Thanks

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Who is making the thread of court action? Is the DWP or a debt collection Agency ?


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I'd also go and get someone on your side, contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau/ advice services and get them involved early on in the process.


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They can't take you to court again for the same money, you have done your time, so it must be a DCA who is threatening you

 

the only action that can be taken to claim the money back off you, is to deduct it from any future benefits

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I think you do need to seek some advice from Citizen's advice bureau..

 

 

 

Incorrect Info. Edited 29/10/14 Rebel11

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

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2: Take back control of your finances -

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Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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They can't take you to court again for the same money, you have done your time, so it must be a DCA who is threatening you

 

 

This is not correct. The fact that the OP has served a criminal sentence for benefit fraud does not mean that the overpayment does not need to be repaid - the first matter is criminal, the second matter is civil.

 

DWP debts are subject to the same basic rules as other debts with regard to statute barring, but as you note the money can be reclaimed from future benefit payments, including State Retirement Pension, and in some circumstances the DWP can make deductions from earnings without needing a court order.


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Hi,

I have a look around for info on this and there is plenty of info for recovering but very little for challenging.

 

To be clear, the DWP can recover the money, take court action or both at their choice.

 

The only positive thing I have found is from CPAG regarding waivers. No idea if it will help.

 

http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/overpayments-and-recovery-secretary-state-waiver

 

They can't take you to court again for the same money

 

The DWP took criminal action at the time. This is now a civil matter which is separate from the judicial system and can't be sent to jail again


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I thought crown debts were immune from SB limitations.


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You wouldn't have been offered the option of paying it back or court. Repayment is without prejudice to court action (Ie it won't prevent it) and this was the case 20 years ago. I was investigating benefit fraud then and still am so I am aware of procedure

 

To have gone to prison it would have been a hefty overpayment. The punishment for the criminal action was the prison. The repayment is a separate issue.


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When did you last make a payment?

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/dmbmanual/dmbm595080.htm


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I'm not entirely sure how it all works with benefit repayments, but I would have thought this is an example of fraud. The statutory limitation period for fraud is six years from when the fraud could reasonably have been discovered. I've also heard an argument that the six year period for repayment begins when a final decision is made by the DWP. When did you do time and when did you stop payment - was it more than six years ago?


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I'm not entirely sure how it all works with benefit repayments, but I would have thought this is an example of fraud. The statutory limitation period for fraud is six years from when the fraud could reasonably have been discovered.

 

I have never heard of that when it comes to recovering fraud overpayments.


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I have never heard of that when it comes to recovering fraud overpayments.

 

The limitation for fraud is covered by section 32 of the Limitation Act - see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/32. I'm not entirely sure how that would apply to the Op but certainly something to think about.


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That's to take civil action in the county court


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That's to take civil action in the county court

 

 

Yes, but the criminal proceedings finished 20 years ago. If DWP want to recover the money now my understanding is that they would have to go through the civil courts.


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they can just take it out of most benefits or attach your earnings, without a judgement.

 

If it's only £2,000 I'm staggered the o/p got a custodial. Even 20 years ago there had to be aggravating factors or previous to get prison.


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I don't think £2,000 was the initial amount, some monies has been paid off, we don't know how much.

 

they can just take it out of most benefits or attach your earnings, without a judgement.

 

If it's only £2,000 I'm staggered the o/p got a custodial. Even 20 years ago there had to be aggravating factors or previous to get prison.


Welcome to Consumer Action Group

 

'Challenges are what makes life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful.'

Joshua J. Marine

 

1) CLAIM BACK ALL PENALTY CHARGES CLICK HERE

2) CLAIM BACK ALL MIS-SOLD PPI CLICK HERE

3) COMPOUNDED CONTRACTUAL INTEREST CLICK HERE

4) REQUEST CCA FROM CREDITOR CLICK HERE

5) OFT- UNENFORCEABLE AGREEMENTS CLICK HERE

6) CAREY V HSBC (2009) CLICK HERE

7) DON'T BE BULLIED BY CREDITORS / DCA's CLICK HERE

8) IN DEBT DON'T PANIC CLICK HERE

9) FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT CLICK HERE

10) SALE OF GOODS ACT-EDUCATE YOUR RETAILER CLICK HERE

11) DISTANCE SELLING-EDUCATE YOR RETAILERCLICK HERE

12) SOGA SUMMARY CLICK HERE

13) WHICH? TEMPLATES [/url]CLICK HERE

14) DOES YOU BANK TREAT YOU FAIRLY BCOBSCLICK HERE

15) EVERYTHING HOUSING CLICK HERE

16) UTILITY BACKBILLING CLICK HERE

17) OFGEM - COMPLAINTSCLICK HERE

18) OFCOM - COMPLAINTS CLICK HERE

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:laser:

 

Deductions from present or future benefits, direct earnings attachments, and a third option for Work and Pensions; back to the criminal court for a proceeds of crime hearing. If a confiscation order is granted it allows the DWP to seize a fraudster's assets.

 

Fortunately for the original enquirer, the POCA hearing usually has to be within two years of conviction.

 

Starryeyes.

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Hi,

This case is like someone I know, even though you have been to prison unfortunately the overpayment still has to be paid back. So if you are not claiming benefits now try can attach a overpayment deduction on any benefits you get in the future. Being sent to prison is the criminal side of it , the other is repayment which still has to be paid but if they take you to court they can not send you to prison again. But they can make it a court order for repayment

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