Marston's and Magistrates Fine. Advice needed. **Warrant Returned**

[kenhall]

I was paying back a fine for driving without insurance at £20.00,

 

 

however, due to a number of family issues, my wife's deteriorating mental and physical health,

my 19 yr old stepson suffering two strokes and being on police bail now for almost three years, so unable to work,

I missed a payment in May. and the fine was put out to Marstons.

 

I was visited by a bailiff in August,

who noted my financial situation and that all of our property is still subject to a PACE order, (Crown Court criminal case still ongoing),

and was to return the fine to HMCTS as uncollectable?

 

Last week a delightful Mr McGovern called demanding with menace, the sum of £520. (the original debt was down to around £210),

refusing any negotiations whatsoever.

 

I lodge a suspension of the warrant only to contacted HMCTS who state that the forms are only for civil cases and that I will have to deal with Marstons direct.

 

What else can I do now?, I'm broke, have a disabled wive, three children, reliant on benefits and can't work to get out of the situation.

 

I contacted my solicitor who stated that the PACE order overrides all other court orders, but Mr McGovern believes otherwise.

 

What forms do I need to complete for a magistrates Fine?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

NB the no insurance occurred when automatic policy renewal failed and my policy lapsed two days prior to being stopped. Car was taxed & Mot'd

Edited October 27, 2014 by kenhall

[ploddertom]

Have you been means tested by the Court & if so are they aware of your current status?

[kenhall]

I sent all relevant document with my application to suspend warrant, including Financial breakdown of income and outgoings, (pretty bleak reading that one was), but HMCTS said the forms were the wrong one's civil not criminal and that the warrant could not be suspended.

[ploddertom]

That is correct. However the chances are they would not have read the extra documentation enclosed. You will need to attend Court and seek to have a redermination of your means - contact the Court Manager or Fines Officer.

[kenhall]

Thank you for that, Will phone the court now.

[kenhall]

Contacted Court fine dept, who said nope, I have to deal with Marstons they will not take it back, even though they appear to have not looked at the facts of the case. Now what do I do?

[DragonFly1967]

You're not asking the court to take the fine back from Marston, you should be asking for a redetermination. This means, as ploddertom said, getting a date to re-attend court for a means hearing.

 

This may mean that the fine is held (as is) or might even be reduced if you're on a particularly low income.

[kenhall]

That is what I asked for, and they said it's with Marstons, there's nothing they can do, but am thinking I may be better off attending the court in person and ask to see the clerk of the court maybe?

[DragonFly1967]

That is what I asked for, and they said it's with Marstons, there's nothing they can do, but am thinking I may be better off attending the court in person and ask to see the clerk of the court maybe?

 

It certainly couldn't hurt. Take any evidence of your household income and expenditure, it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it

[kenhall]

Agree, looks like a 23 mile trip to my nearest magistrates tomorrow, but am concerned how courts are increasingly abdicating responsibility to these legalised thugs.

[Bailiff Advice]

I am sorry to give bad news but the bailiff company are bound by the wording on the distress warrant and unless the court seek the return of the warrant OR the bailiff company recognise that there is a "vulnerability" enforcement will continue.

 

There is provision within the law that allows courts to allow a new Means Enquiry even after a warrant has been issued but sadly....few courts are aware of their discretion on this matter.

 

Before considering what steps to take could you respond to let us know the following:

 

You say that a visit had ben made in August and then a further visit last week from a Mr Mc Govern. What happened during the period from August to mid October? Did you continue making payments and if so..who were the payments made to?

 

Have you provide evidence of your wife's health problems etc to Marston Group or was this only told to the individual bailiff?

 

When was the last payment that you made (and how much)?

[kenhall]

The visit in August was when the bailiff recognised the problems and difficulty in enforcing the warrant and he said he was going to return it as "uncollectable/unenforceable". But it appears it was just left with Marstons and not returned. I have been contacting HMCTS to find out if the warrant had been returned in order to reinstate my original agreement, but this time paying by DD rather than over the counter at the PO, and each time i called HMCTS they said it hadn't arrived so couldnt set up new plan until it did. No payments were made, as HMCTS made it clear payments to Marstons would mean acceptance of their fees and all other charges, and as stated Marstons were not after installments, but the whole amount.

Mr Mcgovern was made very aware of my wifes disability, however said he'd could take the car on which she relies as it's not a mobility car, so was fair game. even though the vehicle has disabled taxation class.

The last payment was in April 2014, it was the May's payment I missed, and by the time I remembered to pay and contacted HMCTS at the beginning of June, they wouldn't accept payment, (even though I offered two months to catch up), stating it had been put out to collections and I had to wait til contacted by the collection agency.

 

hope this helps

 

NB just reading some further post on this site re: Vulnerable Households, and wondering as My wife is physicaly disabled and suffers from ongoing severe mental health problems would my household be deemed vulnerable?

Edited October 28, 2014 by kenhall

[ploddertom]

The "gentleman" you have calling is known for his disregard of circumstances etc so is one to be very careful of. To claim vulnerabilty you must provide proof of same, supposedly Enforcement Agents are to have training to recognise this but like all things blinkers appear to being worn - if I can't see you then you can't see me.

[kenhall]

Yes I've gathered he feels his warrant gives him Demi-God status over all things, so am being very very cautious. I am expecting him back at some point though, he seems the type, though I think the PACE order on the property has thrown him a little.

[kenhall]

Quick update. Have been given the runaround by HMCTS, each department passing the buck to another, finally contacted the Court where the fine originated from, who eventually got back to me yesterday stating that I need to apply to my local magistrates court for a redetermination, (the original court I asked about 3 weeks ago, who directed me to HMCTS!), It seems the courts, or their staff, are either unaware of Redetermination or just don't like it. However, Mr Mc Govern, contacted this evening, (note, Friday, were little help is available being the weekend), stating he was call to enforce the warrant. Once again reason seems to escape this man, going as far as to tell a mentally ill disabled woman, "he'll be round this evening and will break the door down, if necessary". My wife is now in mental melt down.

Tried to speak to Marstons HO and their "Vulnerable team", but was refused to be put through to them by the call centre staff, who also refused when I requested to speak to a supervisor. (Formal complaint & letter to MP's over the weekend).

If I can hold Mr McGovern at bay,I'll be attending my local magistrates first thing Monday morning and not moving until I get a redetermination.

But still have the weekend yet to contend with in the meantime. Any advice, as trying hard to fight, but the system is now so stacked against the little man!.

[kenhall]

Additionally, I forgot to mention Mr McG, was also adamant that he could seize third party items as well. The fine is in my name and my name only, and my home is in my wifes name and her name only, as are the majority of the possessions in it. I pay the bills, my wife purchases any goods for the house, so all receipts & hp is all in her name. Can he seize third party goods? I thought a bailiff couldn't.

[unclebulgaria67]

Additionally, I forgot to mention Mr McG, was also adamant that he could seize third party items as well. The fine is in my name and my name only, and my home is in my wifes name and her name only, as are the majority of the possessions in it. I pay the bills, my wife purchases any goods for the house, so all receipts & hp is all in her name. Can he seize third party goods? I thought a bailiff couldn't.

 

In a marital home they would be presumed as joint property. They are not going to get involved in who actually spent the money in a shop.

 

Unfortunately, you will have to sort out a redetermination on Monday morning at the nearest Magistrates. Unless this is done and you get agreement, the Enforcement Agent would be entitled to enter your property using a locksmith if necessary and to remove sufficient goods to cover the amount required.

 

Nb. You could phone National Debtline to see what advice they give.

[kenhall]

My wife & I separated for a period of time, and I recently moved back in to Her new home. I purchased none of the goods, hence property is hers and the childrens.

[unclebulgaria67]

My wife & I separated for a period of time, and I recently moved back in to Her new home. I purchased none of the goods, hence property is hers and the childrens.

 

You share the home, you have use of the items and are still married. Neither Marstons or the courts are going to get involved in arguing about who owns items in this situation.

 

National Debtline are worth phoning to discuss all of this, so you go over exactly what has happened and they can suggest what you need to do. I suspect they will agree that given that you don't want them to take items from the house, that either you come to arrangement with Marstons or you seek an urgent re-determination at the nearest Magistrates.

[kenhall]

Mr McG is not open to negotiation, he has made that perfectly clear with his threats and intimidation tactics. Moreover Ploddertom messaged me stating Marstons Vulnerable team had contacted & taken interest in the case, after seeing it on this forum, (Tom searching out additional info so am waiting his reply), however the front line staff at Marstons have pointblank refused to let me speak to them.

[kenhall]

Hi all Just a quick update, Marstons have agreed to return the fine to the courts for redetermination, will keep you posted of the outcome , but a big thank you to CAG and a certain person, (she knows who she is), who has been an amazing help.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi all Just a quick update, Marstons have agreed to return the fine to the courts for redetermination, will keep you posted of the outcome , but a big thank you to CAG and a certain person, (she knows who she is), who has been an amazing help.

 

Thank you Ken.

 

Just so that you are aware, now that the warrant has been returned back to the court all bailiffs removed are removed.